Rebuilding the v12

Hi everyone,

My brother and I bought an E type about two years ago. It wasn’t in perfect condition but it drove, shifted and stopped. We took it apart anyway. Not only because we are intressted in how stuff works but also to upgrade it.
We thought we could handle a Jaguar after mending a MGA and an old Peugeot. There are only eight cylinders extre, no? How hard can it be…?

The list of upgrades started with a few things and is now endless. For a start, our E type is from Canada and has the 3.54 diff. Which seemed not very suitable for the 120kph you’re allowed to drive in Bellgium. It reved rather high in fourth gear, not really comfort cruising. So we got a five speed gearbox. Installed it and works fine.
But being part of the millennials generation we looked up as much as information about the car we could found on mister Google. And he told us that these magnificant beast tend to overheat sometimes. So we found a nice little radiatorman who replaced the grid in our radiator to a finer one. He worked on his own in a little shed, smoking sigars around toxic fumes, like it should be when your working on cars this age. I suppose even thirty years ago this was the way people worked.

We kept on reading on mister Googel about overheating. And here comes our first real question. We read about the cooling mods from Norman Lutz, but didn’t find all the information or couldn’t understand all of it. So can someone explain us how we have to do this mod? In easy English for simple Belgians?

The next thing we are planning to do (we already got almost all the parts) might seem blasphemy to the purists. Jaguar never inted to put Strombergs on the V12 (according to a guide about E types). And so we are putting modern EFI on the Beast! We got secondhand inletmanifolds and throttle linkage, which we cleaned and refurbished. We are thinking of opening the inletmanifolds, polishing them on the inside and putting ram tubes (we are not sure if this would help the performance…). The rest of the parts (sensors, fuelpump, injectors, etc.) we have but haven’t put them on yet. For the software, here’s a guy in The Netherlands that converts carburetted oldtimers to EFI. But only the wiring and putting on a custom map. He has worked on v12 before and says Megasquirt can handle the job. Ignition will also be modernised to individual ignition coils, controlled by the ECU.

The IRS is already overhauled and getting dust in the garage. New brakes around, calipers and discs. New shockabsorbers and sway bars (we got one for the rear too, so it’s “dances” less in the back, as we say in Dutch). New powersteering. We might got it wrong there. We didn’t want powersteering that worked to hard, like it did on this car. There was almost no feedback, you had no effort at all at any speed for turning into a corner and this gave a vage feeling. So we think we got a better unit with more feedback, but we don’t know if this is actually the case. It might have been better to get electronic powersteering.

Now the real stuff. The enginge is getting opened! We would love to do this ourselves but are rather scared to do this job. Again, being freightened about the dropped valve seat syndrome caused by overheating, we want to change the valve seats. Also, there seems to be some rust in the heads, right before the intake valves… So the enginehead is getting done by someone (we don’t know who yet) and whilest were at it, we would love to put in bigger valves. Not massive valves. If it would make any difference. And because it’s a car from the Canadian market it has a lower CR. So why not putting in new pistons? And why not getting 96mm pistons instead of the standard 90mm pistons? And if we would want to go completely loco, should we put a 84mm stroke? Having a 5.3l V12 is great, but a 7.2l V12 is better, no?

In the end we want a reliable, almost daily driver. At the same time more power is better! If all those internal mods are a bridge to far for the reason we want to use the car (we hardly ever go to a track day), are there other mods to give nice low end power? We don’t need 500+ hp, but I don’t like the idea our 2.3l Volvo T5 has 40 more horsepower than our beautiful 5.3l v12 E type.

It’s a long post and I must thank you if you read it till the end. Hopefully there are people who can give us some insights and idea’s to finsh the car! (which will take at least three more years I think)

Maxim and Axel Guérin, les Frères Méchanique

Hello Maxim and Axel,
Really can’t offer you much in terms of engine modifications but if you haven’t examined Roger Bywater’s site you might want to check that out. Another resource you should take a peek at is Kirby Palm’s internet book “XJS help, Experience in a book”. This is a valuable resource for V12 owners and you’ll find a significant amount of overlap with our cars. Stu Jones is another V12 E Type expert who IIRC has experience modifying the V12 engine.
Something else you may wish to consider is Mike Franks cooling fan modification: https://www.coolcatcorp.com/V12Fan/V12Fans.html, I’ve done this with my car and I think it’s a significant improvement in the cooling performance.
I have a 3.31 rear end in my car, mine was originally an automatic so it came with this rather than the 3.54 and I think it fits the car very well with a 4 speed. With all the changes your considering you really want to consider a 5 speed upgrade IMHO.
There are a lot of places that sell “upgrades” for the brakes so you might want to look at the usuals such as SNG Barrett, Terry’s, and XK’s Unlimited. Take a peak at CJ’s team Jaguar as well, not sure they have much for the V12’s but they have quite a few upgrades for the 6’s.
Well, that’s all I can offer, good luck and welcome again.
Cheers,
LLynn

1 Like

Hi Max and Ax, I have a 1973 SIII"E" 2+2 that has a W58 Toyota box and and a 3.31 diff. Re engine cooling…yes I know that over heating can be a problem with the V12 engine, but that said,… with a refurbished or new radiator I think you will be fine. ( I also fitted a remote switch for an emergency if the Otter switch failed…but have never needed it ). Opening up the engine can work well IF you have the correct metal plates to take off the cvl heads…I was lucky enough to borrow said plates when I dismantled a 1974 V12 engine for spare parts.Apart from the cyl heads dismantling was not a problem. My engine is basically stock, but the retard module on the dizzy is replaced with an advance unit. The extra pep in acceleration is significant.

I am in the process of refurbishing a '72 E-type. I have rebuilt the engine. Employed a machine shop to clean the heads and block. They also skimmed the heads, ground valve seats, installed valve and springs and core plugs. I kept everything stock; the engine had plenty of HP and torque before the rebuild. I have incorporated an aluminum racing radiator (Ron Davis), SNG’s HEI conversion, a modern high-torque starter, and a spin-on oil filter adapter.

Good luck with your project!

Gentlemen,
you are in the right company here, but also be advised that there is a UK E-type forum as well. Also full of helpful souls like here.
I have done the following to my 1974 OTS cooling. I’ll stick with the cooling for now, if I get started on the rest, my answer will be much longer than your question.
Like Lynn I have replaced the old radiator fan motors and and fans with VAG drop in replacements. Around $45 a piece. Cool Cat aluminium radiator and otter switch replacement. Silicone hoses from SAMCO (be advised that they may still not have the correct sizes in the V12 kit), a timer relay that keeps the fans running after engine shut down for a set amount of time or until the otter switch says it cool, an additional relay that can switch the VAG fans to their high speed option if needed due to heat, control lamps for the fan operations, override switches to manually over ride the otter switch (normal) or high cooling fan speed, Evans waterless coolant. I think that’s it.
I’ll be happy to share details if needed, lots of luck and fun with your project.
Cheers … Ole

1 Like

Ole

Can you please provide more details (part number(s), install mods req’d to fit, etc) on the fans and motors?

TIA – Craig

Hi Craig,
this link to the UK forum for Jaguar (E-type S3) has the link in the thread. The link is very long, so its easier to just go to the UK forum and follow the link. You might also get some information of use at the same time.
http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12726&p=103395&hilit=fan#p103395

This is a link to an other thread where I posted the diagram of my control of the two fan speeds with otter switch override switches and control lamps.
http://forum.etypeuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12720&p=103471&hilit=speed#p103471

Cheers … Ole

I swear, some people’s chilluns…:smiling_imp:

“Of course I can use actual connectors but this looks a little bit “modern” to me.”

Thanks for that link, Ole! Nice, inexpensive upgrade, even if the connectors ‘look too modern.’

:grimacing:

1 Like

This is acyually the first time I’ve been on a forum and the feeling that your not alone on your quest is almost thrilling! I want to get started on the car now. But first some more questions/info.

I replaced the two old fans with newer, same size but a lot more powerfull and helix. If that’s the correct word. The blades are bend, this would reduce the noise, but also the effiecienty. Still, they suck a lot more air than the old ones. We already fitted them and it seems to work… We got all new coolant hoses from Rob Beere, hopefully they’re a good fit! We read about the waterless coolant Ole spoke about and will definatly use this when the car is finished.
Aperantly the main reason for dropped valve seats is not while your driving, but when the car stands still and heat from the cast iron exhaust manifolds get back into the engine, after the ventilators stopped working. You were talking about the Otter switch, I suppose this is the baddie that controls the ventilators. I just don’t really understand how to overwright them. My Englisch isn’t good enough.

There are some other mods we also already got. Like the spin on oil filter Joe spoke about. But all of these are mainly to increase the reliabability of the car. So is the replacing of the valve seats.
We just don’t know if it’s worth the effort of putting in bigger valves if we would keep the same engine size. Also, the low compression ratio is a bit of a downside. All the petrol in Belgium is 95 or 98 octane anyway. So should we get high compression pistons with the same size, bigger ones or stick with the ones we got. Will there be a big difference? The same with a bigger cranckshaft. Is it worth the extra money and trouble?
Actually, we would love to get all of these engine mods, whilst keeping driveability. And we would love to do them our selves. We’re eager to learn, but don’t want to get it over our heads. Like mentioned, the removal of the heads is a pain on it’s own. Luckuly my uncle has a metal shop around the corner (when we say around the corner, take it literally, it’s walking distance, not a two hour drive like in America, by that time you’re out of Belgium and people will think you’re a mad person for driving so far :yum: ) so we could make one off those plates to pull off the heads our selves. But what with the rest of the internals? Impossible for non professionals like us? The machining of the engine and the refurbishing of the heads will be done by a company, just the taking apart and putting together again. Dillema’s!

We got on this forum instead of the English one (even though we are half-British) because we got the most information on this forum through Google.

Thanks again everyone!!!

Maxim and Axel

The radiator fans are Spal by the way, if anyone wanted to know

Ah, I just noticed Ole gave a link to an other thread considering the electrical diagram. Luckily we both love electrics.
Sorry, miss wrote that. We hate it and don’t understand a bit about it. Well, we have to deal with it anyway.

Hi Guys and welcome,

Im sure you will enjoy the mighty V12. A couple of thoughts from my very limited experience.

Your best source of modification information will be in the V12 engine forum.
A number of posters over the years have been down the route you propose, so targeted searches around your areas of interest will produce posts who may be able to answer your queries.
I did a quick search on larger valves, and there is a response from the Roger Bywater, one of the design engineers on jaguars V12 project team, from way back in 2009. The short answer is that larger valves are not required up to around 500Hp on the pre HE engine. Its a long post about other mods you might try so look it up.
Also do a web search on AJ6 engineering this is rogers company, and there is a wealth of info on the V12.

The Lutz mod is quite easy for anyone with access to a machine shop. you just mill little aluminium buttons that are a couple of MM oversize for the ports in the water rails, then drill the required size holes, and finally its a hammer hit to fit them. The concept is for smaller holes in the front leading to larger holes in the rear.
One poster quotes orifice sizes from front to rear,
1=5mm
2=10mm
3=15mm
4=20mm

while you are on cooling, check the thermostats in a pot of hot water, they should open to around 42mm. Many of the modern ones don’t and therefore don’t close off the byapass pipe which leads to hotter engine.
A simple mod if they don’t open far enough is to weld or braise a large washer underneath the bottom plate to ensure they close the bypass.

Cheers
Mark Brown

Ole – thanx for the link and the path-finding work that will benefit me and all other V12 owners.
Craig