Well, one of those times that you sit and stare at something because nothing is working. I know others have been EXACTLY here but I can’t find that anyone answered…
Got a Series 3 XJ motor, and am ready to pull the crank out but I can’t get to that T40 screw at the top of the seal retainer…
The outer two were easy, popped right out. The top one is obscured by the crank flange that the flywheel bolts to. I rotated the crank thinking I may be able to get to it through one of the holes in the flange - no Joy.
Tried going in at an angle with a small ratchet and T40 on the end. Afraid I’m going to strip the bolthead so stopped.
I don’t think there is enough room in the to even get an ‘L’ shaped T40.
The only think I can think of now is to cut off a T40 bit, then use a small wrench on the hex portion of the shortened bit.
One of those operations when one simple operation takes HOURS, hoping for a tip to power thorugh this one?
I have tried lifting the crank out, the rear seal retainer is acting almost like another main bearing cap, it will not separate from the block to allow the rear of the crank to come up. Seems that single torx behind the crank flange is trying to keep things together.
But yes, it makes sense that the top screw would be easily accessible with the crank out - if the retainer would pop loose and allow the crank to exit.
I appreciate the input - would buy you a pint if you were here.
Once you have remove the 2 outer torx/allen screws that pass thru the upper to lower halves of the seal retainer the only thing left holding the crank in is the dowels around the screws. Just try a gentle couple of taps with a mallet to separate the two halves of the seal retainer.
It would be easier to explain if you could see me moving my hands!
Phil - Thanks. I’ve been out to the shop this morning tapping on what I believe is the lower HALF (I think you’re saying the part pictured above is actually split and separates into two halves). Could be that the dowels are just TIGHT, it may not have ever been out of this engine!
In looking at parts manuals - it seems the dowels run parallel to the crank, so I should be tapping the part REARWARD towards the flywheel flange, correct?
The picture is correct and the retainer is split. I normally tap the Lowerhalf forward and backwards whilst trying to pull it vertically. I’ll try and scan a couple of picture when I get home later
Many thanks Phil. I can get movement but haven’t been able to separate it yet. Jus t going slowly so as to not damage anything. Photos would be helpful, thanks in advance.
I took another run at this and was able to loosen the top torx screw with a set of vice grips. Once that was loose, I could easily tap the retainer toward the rear (as can be seen by the crack between the retainer and the block). It certainly appears to be a one piece retainer, not split as I had hoped.
As can be seen - the torx comes out so far and lodges against the flange on the crank. And that is as loose as I can get it UNLESS I GRAB A DREMEL TOOL AND SLICE THE HEAD OF THE BOLT SEVERELY, leaving just enough material to grab onto, then back the bolt all the way out (It’s not out, therefore the seal assembly is not free of the dowel pins and the crank is still captive.
I know it was suggested that this seal retainer is TWO pieces, which means if I could remove the lower half I could simply lift the crank out. But this piece really looks like it is ONE piece., and since the seal retainer is still slightly attached the crank cannot be lifted out yet.
Sorry to make this a long thread but this is defying logic. There is NO way that top bolt could be fastened or un-fastened properly with the crank in place, and the fact that the retainer finally moved away from the block when I got the top screw loosened with vice grips seems to prove that the retainer is in fact one piece.
Then again - someone here may show me the errors of my ways
Hi Ron
It’s definitely not one piece! There are the two smaller diameter caps screws which held the two halves together that go through two two holes in the lower half of the housing, the heads are probably full of crap so you can’t see them try a bit of degreaser and an airline?
Once the two retaining screws are out,try levering the TOP half from side to side slightly- its retained on dowels so not too
.hard or you’ll bust out the sides out the housing - thin walled!
Hopefully, you can create a slight gap between the two halves.then use a thin flat screwdriver to ease it apart.l
It can’t be one piece, think about it,how the hell could it get there in the first place?
Torx bits were introduced on series 3 as a cost cutting exercise by dear old “Leyland Cars” !!! Throw them in your scrap bin and fit Allen screws
Hi again Ron,
Rear seal housing was never designed to come off in the way your trying! Unfortunately crank out is only option without butchering the upper Allen Screw/ torx but even if you get the centre screw out there is still the matter of the retaining dowels.if they dislodge and move out with the housing it’s even more fiddly!
You reall y have to get the two halves to split
Ron
Think I’ve got it at last! Looks like someone has fitted a really early housing that they had machined for rope seal?? The retaining screws of the two haves go through the other way i.e. Upwards into the half in the block. Have you removed the rear sump seal off the housing? If not get it of and you’ll see the two screw heads on the
Pressing on here. Continued Thanks for the additional positive input and photos. This is not covered clearly in my Bentley manual, but then the engine is out of a Series III XJ and I have no manuals or parts books for that. That said - what everyone is saying - that the seal retainer is split - absolutely makes sense.
See pictures with notes on what mine looks like - the search for the screws holding the halves together is throwing me a curve ball - I cannot seem to locate the two screwheads I am showing another couple of photographs, both of the top and lower half, and can see no screwheads. If I knew where they were SUPPOSED to be I could make sure I excavate any dirt buildup and look carefully there - but I do not know the exact location. It was suggested that they would be UNDER the cork seal, and that if I removed the cork seal they would expose themselves. When you look at the earlier piece above, you can see where the cork seal was scraped out. Then look at the ‘pan’ side of my retainer - where the cork seal looks like it should reside is completely ‘built-up’ , not concave like the early example.
I really wanted to figure this out so I could finish the dis-assembly here then take it to the machine shop. but if I can’t I may let the machine shop finish this last step and then will report what they did here for posterity. Someone down the road may benefit.
Ron
Your punch is on the wrong side, the two screws come from the other side,[ top cap ] and screw into the lower cap [ cork seal cap ] they are hidden behind the flywheel crank flange and are probably full of grunge.
Morris.
Well thanks to a number of tips that the bolts were in there somewhere I finally pushed through the grease and grunge and sure enough “whoops there it is” photo shows my screwdriver in the little hiding bastard. Right where I was NOT finding it before because I didn’t dig enough of the greasy dirt out.
Thanks to everyone for the photos. Should go back in like a champ.
Signed - worlds foremost expert on xk rear engine seals
