two weeks ago I witnessed a typical Prince of Darkness situation when I was chatting with a neighbour in our common underground car park. I had shut the engine of the Jag off, but let the lights on (low beam). While I was talking I saw the lights on, on, on, flicker, flicker, dim, off. In the end the parking light position worked, but the main light position wouldn’t. Lucky me, I had wired the fog lights in a way to power the low beam main lights and thus was able to keep the main lights working in fog light position. As the low beam lights were operating in fog position and the high beams were operating over the dip switch in park position lights and fuses were excluded from the list of culprits, while the light switch and the relay remained.
Lucky once, lucky twice - I had a used spare Hella relay in one of my boxes and swapping them out successfully was no safe bet (would the used spare relay work at all? Was it a relay problem or a switch problem?), but cured the problem within minutes.
For the moment I’m left with the original relay which I’ve freed from its cover. My problem was that the power from the head light switch delivered through the blue wire to pin 56 (in the center of the relay) is not passed on to either pin 56b (low beam) or pin 56a (high beam). I would expect to find moving parts responsible for the switch, but can’t identify them. Any ideas are welcome - I would love to restore its function and have a serviced and known-to-work spare back in the box.
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As this is a latch relay; it should connect to one or(!) the other, Jochen…
The first though is that it is somehow stuck in ‘mid’ position, alternatively that both contacts are burnt. But depending on your set-up; with the light switch in the ‘fog’ position, the 56 is unpowered - an equally good explanation? So in ‘fog’, the relay cannot
With fog lights feeding the low beam directly, to 56b - it bypasses the relay. Which, incidentally, in the ‘European’ version is done by a jumpwire from the light switch to ‘fog’ position to 56b. With both version, the ‘flash’ function still operates (81a to 56a) as 81a is fed from brown permanent power - but the relay will not power low/high alternately as the 56 is unpowered…
Methinks you should try ohming 56 to 56a and 56b to verify either connection (burnt contacts if ‘no’). And 81a to 31b - to verify is there is continuity through the relay spool. And/or power up 56 and look for power at 56a and 56b - and power up 81a and ground the 31b intermittently - to verify that the relay actually operates/clicks…?
I had the same issue (actually in the Wirtshaus Parking lot!) and the blue wire had disconnected. The lows are then fed by the fog lamp feed which is mandatory. High beam works via the flasher but don’t operate them for more than a few seconds while the lights are on; the bulbs are not able to withstand the heat of both filaments for long.
If your blue wire is powered but the relay doesn’t output anything to blue/white or blue/red, you should follow the path the smoke inside the relay has to take: is it possible that the slightly melted part of the nylon guide is blocking the action? I think it may not be able to pivot so freely anymore.
The white nylon part has to move left and right. If you force it carefully you may get function back. If you power the coil it should alternately latch to the left/ right.
If it does, ensure that it makes contact either side - but I believe it just got hot and jammed. Clean the contacts and cross your fingers that they stay cooler in the future.
Clamp the case shut tight so it can’t come apart and short to something.
Good luck!
David
1 Like
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
4
Since you have the cover off, you should be able to squeeze that lever down with your finger and watch how it works. One squeeze and the latch should end up on one side. Another squeeze and it’s over on the other side.
in fact, the white nylon thing in front wouldn’t budge initially. David’s younger eyes spotted in the pic what my eyes failed to see last night in reality:
Obviously, the contacts had turned bad over the decades increasing resistance and heat. The nylon part fell victim to that heat with the trailing front edge bubbling and blocking operation. Only if you prise the part rearward the nylon part flip-flops from lo to hi beam as Kirbert and Frank described. I’ll trim the front part of the nylon part with a sharp knife and see whether this restores function. All electrical elements seem to work - no wire broken, no signs of heat, no smell. Let’s see whether this thing survives into a time when drivers don’t need hi beams any more because their cars communicate …
BTW, David - congratulations for the show at the Wirtshaus parking lot:.) Yet, your light switch and the wiring may have changed for SIII: on UK SII cars the fog lights are wired independently and in parallel with the parking lights - no main lights with fog lights in the UK in 1975! Even my older driving habits connect fog lights with low beam mains though and that’s why I strayed off the wiring as provided by Brown’s Lane and did pretty much what Frank described. And - sorry for having been unclear: pin 56 had power in head light switch position, as shown with a test light, while neither pins 56a or 56b had power.
This problematic relay is sooo Jaguar. Early cars (like my S1) had the usual floor switch to select high or low beams. A momentary contact column switch served the standard European “flasher” function that I learned about so well whilst driving my 56 VW on the Autobahn circa 1966.
In the US (Series 3 territory) domestic makers started moving switches to the steering column (not yet to the wheel itself as now). These included lights, dimmer switch wipers, cruise control, etc. in additional to the usual turn signals. Never one to completely redesign, Jaguar decided to use the existing flasher switch to serve as a dimmer switch. They didn’t want to bother to modify the switch–so it remained momentary contact. To get it to work, Hella supplied their complicated relay. Hitting the column switch momentarily toggled the lights between high and low beams…but ONLY when the light switch was on. With the light switch off, a separate circuit within the relay replicated the usual flasher function. Not perfect: flasher worked normally in the daylight, but at night there was no flasher function–to emulate one must toggle rapidly to high then black to low. Think I’ve got this approximately right…never owned a S3 but I have a few of the relays.
absolutely correct as to the function of the dip switch - even in SII mode you have to quickly change to high beam and back to simulate a flasher with the head lights on.
Still, you can’t really blame the relay for failure after 45 years:-) even more so as it now seems that a cutter, some emery paper at the contacts and some grease at the moving parts may have bought another lease of life … I will report back
You‘ll get it going again. If you push down on the little flap as the coil would pull it in, you will be able to tell how well it works.
The S1 setup is vastly superior, and going to the column switch is much less ergonomic. Wipers on a stalk or a separate light switch are a good thing but the high beam stalk switch never was a good idea…
They could have added a push function to the headlight stalk without any trouble at all. I believe it was deliberate or a design failure.
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Actually, the relay coil is powered by brown (permanent power) circuit, Robert - the stalk switch just grounds the coil to flip/flop the relay whatever the position of the light switch. With the light switch ‘off" and ‘park’ there is only power to the high beam and only when the relay switches to ‘high’ - flash. In ‘fog’ the relay is bypassed with power to the fogs (when fitted) and to low beams - ’ high’ and ‘low’ both on when flashing. In ‘on’; you can only switch between ‘high’ and ‘low’ to signal displeasure…
As you say, ‘not perfect’ - but it is difficult to arrange ‘flash’ when already in high beam…?
As an aside; the only fuses in the head lamp circuit are the four lamp fuses - the relay itself is not fused…
I had a 56 VW!!! Mid 60’s. I was a claim supervisor in LA. We found a place to live in the San Fernando Valley. Golden State and Holly wood freeway commute. Ate much less gas than my 61 Ford. 36 HP and no fuel guage!!! Momentum very important to stay with the traffic.
Running start at any u grade. Almost always WOT!!!
Hiccup? Oh @#$%$. Flipthe reserve fuel lever. Oh 2 x )))((*&& I forgot to get gas…
Next up a similar but nice 60. Red with white convertible top…
Bob and I drove VW’s and used our skill to tune them to the max. Extract every bit of power.
After work, an impromptu run to the park lot, fastest get away and beat the other to the freeway on ramp… Bob use the in gear crank method.
I used a modifed version…
Not many cars I’ve owned that you didn’t own too, Carl. Mine had a sunroof! That lever to get more fuel was around for about a decade, maybe more. It just switched from a pipe that sat about two inches above the tank bottom to one flush with the bottom. My dad had a 59 Karmann Ghia convertible that was still 36 HP but weighed a lot more than a Beetle. It was truly slow but still a great and beautiful car.
True anecdote: My '59 was purchased in Germany and sold in France when I was working/traveling during college years. I was pretty nerdy, certainly not a drinker. My friends and I visited Munich, and soon found ourselves at the famous Hofbräuhaus. After returning to our hotel room (without bathroom of course) I felt a bit sick and, being too lazy to find the facility down the hall or wherever, heaved out the window. Next morning, we discovered that I’d made a direct hit on the VW!
1 Like
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
12
The “company car” where my foster father worked in the late 1960’s was a 1950’s VW camper that employees could use on vacation. Same pathetic engine you guys are talking about, pushing a minivan loaded up with camping equipment and perhaps 40 gallons of fresh drinking water. Same gauge situation: Speedo and odo, that’s it, no fuel gauge, a pull knob for a “reserve tank”, time to find a gas station.
We drove that thing from Orlando, FL up into the Smoky Mountains and the Blue Ridge Parkway. On the freeways, top speed was low 60’s, but if we pulled in behind a semi we could follow along at 70 at half throttle. In those days semis really stank, though, so we couldn’t do that long without gagging.
Along the BRP, we had to pull out on every overlook to let the long string of vehicles past us. On the uphills it would bog down in 3rd so we’d have to drop it into 2nd to keep moving at all, which wasn’t far past walking speed.
That POS used more oil than gas, probably because of the WOT operation. The entire engine compartment seemed coated with oil.
Wonderful stories! I can only add that I spent my early childhood on the rear bench of a VW 1300 that my parents cherished and cursed as it ate clutches and mufflers. Anyhow, at a time when a perceived 75 % of all cars in traffic were Beetles where I lived I was able to identify the exhaust note of our car when my dad was approaching and still two crossings away. Many decades later I had the chance to rent a Mexico beetle while on vacation there and have to say that - grown to 1600 cc and with fuel injection it was a serious car and in hairpin corners on wet tarmac I was able to provoke the rear end to break loose.
Rest on-topic: Sorry, I would have loved to entertain with a simple and undeserved story of success regarding the repair of the relay, but unfortunately it wasn’t as simple as I had dared to hope. As announced I cut the nylon part free to let it move and added some oil. In my hands the white nylon thing flip-flopped as expected, but when reinstalled I still didn’t have any power to UR or UW. The flasher works well, btw. Need to open the relay again and make up a test rig to check where the power gets lost.
Punched and drilled a series of holes in the fire wall so the fan could get cooler air from the cabin!!!
Power time the ignition to just short of ping.
Punch holes in the muffler through the two tips.
So, the tips became the “main” sound absorbers. less back pressure means more power/
Ventilate the air cleaner. Less restrictive, More air, more power.
OH, my 56 came with a roof rack. Alas, it came adrift on the Hollywood freeway. I looked, but never found it. Hopefully it did not hit any car!!!
I bought mine from a repo/finance outfit. Supposedly a bad clutch. good price. alas, a couple of teeth off the ring gear in the differential.
I swapped in a used one. Yikes. used two VW bumper jacks to support the car. I had a decent set of basic tools but none in metric. nevertheless some fit/ I managed to get it done…
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
16
We had some clown show up to an SCCA racing school in a VW Beetle that had two huge 2-bbl Webers fitted. Had big lumps in the hood to make room. I dunno what all was done to that engine, but the car would do nearly 150 MPH on the straights. Passed a Corvette that was there for the school. Thing is, though, it was still a VW, and whoever did such impressive work on the engine apparently did nothing to the rest of the car. The steering wheel had 150 degrees of play. I kid you not, someone actually measured it. Normally the instructor and the student are in the car together, but in this case the instructor refused to get in it – and nobody could blame him.
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But did it flip/flop with 81a powered and 31b grounded, Jochen…?
And did you have power to 56 when you tested for power out on UR and UW? There is a separate contact inside that connects 81a to 56a (BW) in ‘flash’ - two separate contacts flip/flop between UR/UW from 56. Nothing through; burnt contacts or no flip/flop?
in original shape the Beetle’s steering and front suspension is well-adapted to 34 hp, but not much more. For good reasons VW put into the last types of “big block” Beetles the front suspension and steering of the Golf which went to beat the Porsche 911 in a spectacular comparative slalom test in the early 1970s. Even the 911 can be taken to higher speeds only with calm hands at the wheel due to poor weight distribution and air lift - there is a reason why from the Carrera on they came with massive air dams front and rear. All-in-all: with an early Beetle and enough juice to make it do 150 mph I doubt the front wheels are even on the ground;-)
no, the main part did nothing, as much as I could see (over-optimistically I had fixed the housing before mounting the relay). I’ll take off the case again and try to make up a test rig with a 12V adaptor to check where the power is lost.
