Rope-seal; JD17B; JD17B-1; cutting up a spare crankshaft

That’s great John_John1 :+1: :grinning:

Much appreciated :clap:

Because it never hurts to have a 3D file:

Based on the above measuremnts:

Made it a while ago, but just realized I should link it here.

~Paul K.

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That’s uncanny V12JagGuy

I’ve neglected my V12 project recently but popped in last night (as I was just doing some cosmetics on the sump) and it’s now time to decide am I using the spare crank of buying the tool

and…

today I find you’ve added to the thread.

many thanks

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Hi…would be interested to know how you use the sizeing tool with the adaptor thats required for the V12…sizeing the seal is being discussed now on the UK E type forum but how is the adaptor intended to be used…note this is for the V12 and not the 6 cylinder…the same tool JD17B is used for both but the adaptor JD17B-1 is also needed on the v12…Steve How to use a crank seal sizing tool? - The 'E' Type Forum

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Why don’t you just use two end bearing housings bolted back to back with each other around the tool and put your rope seal into those. Offset the edges of the seal and slowly close the composite tool up as you go. When done, retrieve the seal halves and put them into the engine.
run

kind regards
Marek

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Hi MGCJAG

My understanding is that the adapter/sleeve JD17B-1 is simply to change the diameter of the tool.

JD17B used on its own is for the 6 cylinder engines (which presumably have smaller diameter crank-journals) and if you are doing the job on the V12 you just use the same tool but with the additional sleeve :man_shrugging:

Hi MarekH.

I assume your post was in answer to MGCJAG but it’s interesting to me too.

However do you actually mean round the tool, or round the crank?

If you had the tool there wouldn’t be any need for a workaround

Hi Foxy…yes the adaptor is to change the diameter…but how do you fit and use it…a question really for someone who has actually used it…you can see from the link I posted above and tha discussion on the E forum that the adaptor dosnt seem to fit in an appropriate place to use the sizeing tool…Dont think Mareks reply was for me becaus i dont want to actually do the job…but just want to findd out how the adaptor works…Steve

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Ah. I didn’t read the link :man_facepalming:

Will do so after dinner :shallow_pan_of_food:

ok. So I have hired the tools and .'. don’t need to cut spare crank.

I hope to be using them today and will report back on how it goes.

Just one question before I start… should the seals be soaked in oil for a few days prior to starting?

Yes oiling would be good.

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Ok so I started the job yesterday and it’s not going well :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

In no particular order the problems are as follows:

  • seals too long to put caps on and use tool on both seals at same time

  • T-bar completely pointless when JD17B-1 used as main tool simply turns inside it

  • seals flattens out when pressure applied and does not .'. go into groove

  • some sources advise using RTV on back of seal to lock it in groove (there are no anti-rotation holes)

  • some sources advise soaking seals in oil before fitting. if they are soaked in oil sealant is unlikely to adhere

So basically I’m finding the tool does very little and am .'. glad I didn’t buy one and I have 2 seals sort of half in, half out their grooves and tools need to be returned tomorrow.

fwiw I’ve seen various threads where ppl were going into a lot of detail about the dimensions of the tool and what the desired clearance would be (between crank and seals).

I measure the adaptor (JD17B-1) to be 80.1 mm and the crank journal to be 79.3mm. I don’t do Imperial for small measurements am afraid


seal in cap


seal in block


still some way to go before adaptor fits

Hi Foxy…did you start off with a seal that has been oil soaked…then flattened out…then rolled into the groove…dosnt look like it from your photos. …not really sure how your useing the adaptor…Steve ps have a look here at useing the adaptor How to use a crank seal sizing tool? - The 'E' Type Forum

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Hi there and thanks for the reply.

I did have a look at that link actually and the accompanying YouTube short. I don’t understand why the chap in the video was trying to put the collar inboard, instead of outboard :man_shrugging:

But to answer your question > No I started with it dry as I thought sealant wouldn’t stick to an oily seal.

I am using the adaptor by sliding it over the main tool but you can’t gat any twisting motion with it that way as the main tool and the adaptor are not locked together.

Anyway I’ve had some good tips from someone was has fitted many of these and will try what he suggests and report back.

He is basically saying start the seal off by forcing it in with a screwdriver or similar

I used a large round socket, and a dead blow hammer, for initial fitment.

Hi Foxy…you definatly need to start by slightly flattening it…then just by hand press it most of the way into the groove then with something smooth and round like a socket as mentioned above roll it on the seal to press it further in…then use the sizeing tool…you definatly dont use a screwdriver or similar to poke it in…Steve

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Thanks Steve.

I did the job today and it went pretty well. The key was flattening it and pushing it in by hand.

Also think I was using the adaptor incorrectly first time.

Anyway i will post a more detailed reply later

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so this is the advice I got today (on a Facebook forum)

I have fitted hundreds, you fit the seal dry, I personally bend the middle of the seal upwards and fit the ends flush. I then gradually push it down using a tool like a small blunt screwdriver to push it in to the bottom of the groove both sides and the whole length. Then I use a hammer handle to push it in as far as needed and flatten it slightly. I assemble it all to the block and smear it liberally with graphite grease. Smear the sizing tool too, and then with the block on end or on a bench, push whilst turning the tool until it fully enters to the larger diameter, then turn as rapidly as possible to polish the surface of the seal. Any more info, please PM me.”

The thing that struck me was the bit about the larger diameter… I assumed this went nowhere near the seals. I thought the adaptor was for pushing the seals home. I will make another post explaining what I did.

NB the above also makes me a right idiot for earlier comment about the guy in YouTube short not putting the adaptor outboard. He obviously realised what it was for and was just trying to decide which way round to seat it

So basically I put the adaptor where I now believe it should be. IE where the shells go on the rear main bearing.

I then fed the seals into their grooves by hand after removing them and flattening out the ridges I’d made on them. It wasn’t too easy to do but by pinching the seal as it was fed into the groove they did go home ok.

Once that was done I put the rear main-bearing cap on (with the 2 larger nuts and washers tightened down)

The I pushed the tool inwards till the sloping face (where its OD changes) met the seals. The free-end in located in the adaptor. I then whacked the tool inwards (block of woof betwixt tool and hammer) till the large OD was in-between the seals.

The seals and tool were coated with graphite-paste and I twisted the tool back & forth for a while to polish the seals.

Job done?

We won’t know until the engine is back in car and running so perhaps 2 years from now I’ll be able to say.

I do know I have cut the seals too short which at least shows how much further they are in today than on my first attempt - yesterday :neutral_face:


today I put adaptor in here (after removing bearing-shells)


yesterday I had adaptor here thinking it was used to size the seals


larger OD of tool driven home with block of wood and hammer


tool with larger OD inside seals and free end in adaptor


seals installed & ‘polished’


looks ok

Hi Foxy…your not supposed to use a block of wood to drive the sizeing tool in…you just push as your turning…its not a quick process and you should take your time to get a nice neet finnished seal…if i were you i would get another seal and do the job again …useing the experiance you now have to get a much neeter seal…personsly i wouldnt be happy useing what you have as to me it dosnt look good enough and i expect it will leak…just my opinion. …all the best…Steve

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