Sagging headlining: Help!

Hello,
I have a 1998 X308 and just noticed today the headlining is sagging quite badly at the front (by about an inch or so) all across the front by about a foot or so, and at the back, just in the middle. I’m sure it’s only just gone like this, and it’s gutted me as I thought my car was near perfect and feel like it’s falling apart now.

I’ve had a bit of a look and some people suggest upholstery pins which to be honest looks a bit naff, and seen a video showing complete replacement doing it yourself which doesn’t look tooo difficult, but I’d rather not have to do that.

Glue doesn’t seem to be an option as you would have to remove lining anyway, and fabric is thin and glue would show through, so may as well fit new lining.

Has anyone else had the same problem and how did you resolve it?

Seems to me options are:

  1. Leave it, but it will probably get worse and look awful and touch the top of my head eventually.

  2. Try some clips or pins as that would be cheap and got nothing to lose as might need to replace whole headlining anyway?

  3. Replace lining myself, I’ve seen what looks like a good company in Kent who supply headliners for Jags for about £166.

  4. Pay someone to sort it out, but that might be horribly expensive.

Any ideas everyone as I hate by baby being saggy!

Thanks in advance,

Simon

Hi Simon,
1)Yes it is only going to get worse, the lining is backed by foam so trying to inject any sort of glue is going to fail.
2) I had a wrecker that had a LOT of panel pins holding it up. (Never in a month of Sundays do that to a Jag!)
3) Doable if you are a hands on guy there is documentation on the web showing how to do a '40 headlining and I would not think it would change too much for the 300.

I did a series 2 myself, this did not have a biscuit with the car when I acquired it (free to a good home or the wreckers)
Due to the lack of said biscuit I glued the lining directly onto the roof panel, in hindsight I would have manufactured some style of sound deadening prior to the HL going in.
I had all the cant rails off and started at the front of the car and slowly sprayed glue onto both surfaces and allowed them to tack off before smoothing from the centre out. Came out of the car after fininshing and was very carful not to cross my arms until I had cleaned all the over spray off :slight_smile: most fabric suppliers would carry a material that should be acceptable, otherwise go to a local car trimming place and they may supply you with the correct colour

Simon, I’m afraid that happens to every car after time and there are only two choices: take it out and do it properly or use the clear spiral pins which if spaced evenly and well will hold it back and after a time is un-noticed. That is what I’ve resoted to doing (rather badly as not well placed but effective!).
From Jim Butterworth’s site:

Drooping Roof Lining (temporary fix): Mick - Jaglovers Forum
My headliner has sagged a little more - from one side of the car to the other in the centre of the ~ 12 inch recessed area between the end of the sunroof compartment and the rear window. The rest of the headliner from this point forward is still well attached. It hung down only a few inches but it began to bother me that it was doing this and I was afraid letting it sag would simply accelerate more sagging in the future.
I purchased a piece of pre-stained wood moulding with a wood finish close to the rest of the wood on the Jag. The moulding is 1 inch wide with the finished side convex and the flat side unfinished. It is thin (⅜" thick at the highest point of the convex surface) which makes it quite flexible.
I cut it to a length of 45¾" which is slightly longer than the distance between the headliner trim on each side of the car. I cut four ½" pieces of self-adhesive velcro plastic hooks and fixed them equally spaced along the unfinished back of the wood moulding. I sprayed the finished surface of the moulding with several coats of high gloss polyurethane to improve its appearance and make it a closer match to the Jag’s high gloss wood finish.
I stuck one end into the headliner trim on one side of the Jag (flat side with velcro hooks toward the headliner) and the other end in the headliner trim on the other side of the Jag. Being slightly longer than this distance, the wood moulding bowed upward taking the general shape of the roof and pressed the headliner back up against the roof. I slid the wood moulding forward just behind the beginning of the recess behind the sunroof compartment.
The moulding is not visible unless you are sitting in the back seat and, when seen, simply looks like another moulding strip across the centre of the headliner. It doesn’t completely remove the sagging but it is now barely visible.
Total cost of the repair was $1.50 since I already had the velcro hooks and the polyurethane spray. You might give it a try if you have a similar problem and want a quick, inexpensive fix.
Uncle added: Congrats on this fix. I did a similar repair on my 90. To make it permanent, I drilled four holes in the wood, and used ⅝" trim screws to screw the bow in to the headliner board. This would not damage the board in the event I wanted to change the headliner in the future.
Be careful if you do this, you do not want to drill a hole through the roof, and when you turn the screws, you do not want to pull the fabric. At the time, it was a temporary fix. I sold the car.
The rest of story is about 4 years later, I saw the 90 and it was in terrible shape. Out of curiosity I did look at my headliner bow, and it was still in place. In fact, the headliner was the best part of the interior.

You’ll need 40 to 50 for a neat job!

Not perfect, but more than acceptable as a temporary/permanent solution.

Thanks Neil. 40 - 50, yikes! I was thinking maybe 20. Would they go through the lining to the metal of the roof though because they look quite long.

Think they might be okay for a temp fix or even just to try out and see how it looks but I can’t really help that it might look a bit naff particularly for a prestige car. Wouldn’t bother me in my dog car.

Found this and doesn’t really look too difficult to remove and fit new one, just unscrewing a few things, unplugging connectors, pulling the plastic trim off and away, removing sensors. Just a bit time consuming:

Also found a supplier of new lining which can bend in the middle to get in car without removing window which I couldn’t do.

http://www.jaguarheadlinings.com/en/9-jaguar-xj8-xjr-x308-v8

I’ll get in touch with a local indy and also a car upholsterer just to see how much they would charge.

Seemed okay at £167 but they add £45 pp plus tax comes to £254!!! But, same seller selling on ebay for 150 plus 30 pp. Bit of a difference.

It depends how you view your car! Mine now 20 years old I’ve owned it for 9 is now showing it’s age and signs of wear and tear along with various dings and scuffs picked up in car parks no matter how much I try to park way out of trouble, so in that sense I no longer see it as my prestige pride joy although it attracts comliments from many who are of a similar vintage to myself.
Hence many compromises and a long list of “round tuits” that I keep ignoring and putting off doing, although mechanically and in terms of reliability it’s absolutely terrific and it’s just sailed through it’s latest MOT!

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Hi, Simon. I’ve replace 2 headliners in X-300’s myself. I will say the job is tedious, by not too difficult. The hardest part is removing the large, cardboard back board itself and then getting it back into the car without folding it 7 different ways. I haven’t done a 308, but the dimensions are similar enough that I can’t believe it’s much different. I did one long wheelbase car and one short wheelbase car. I swear they must install the headliners in swb cars before the glass goes in. It’s the only way I can figure to do it without bending the board in half. Still, the results were perfectly acceptable and the creases couldn’t be seen once it was up. And if you buy the fabric and adhesive and do the job yourself it’s very inexpensive (far less than 166 pounds).

With that said, I don’t know about the UK, but here in the U.S. it is perfectly reasonable to find a private shop that will replace a headliner for $200 - $350 US. So, for 166 pounds plus shipping, you might just be able to find a place near by that would do it for close the same price AND save you the hassle. But, if you’d like to save a buck like me (or is it “quid” for you?) or if you just like giving it a try yourself (also like me), then I’d say give it a shot.

Good luck.

Simon I’ve had the same problem on 2 of mine , you can use spray adhesive works well and don’t see bleedthru - might want to have a few pins to help with sagging till dry !! My headliners were only from behind drivers seat till the back of car mainly in the middle still good around good portion of the edges & everytime you have windows down problem will get worse if u leave any unglued areas !! If yours is sagging from front to back I would remove trim and try to re-glue and if that doesn’t work pull the headliner and cardboard .

recently done my 300 headliner and to be fair it was an easy job, 2 people is recommended, if the headliner you purchase is on a fiberglass backing you will need the install through the rear door with the front passenger seat out and the rear squab seat removed as well, very gently ease the head liner in without forcing the backing as fiberglass will bend but not fold. it will go in and then it is just a case of refitting all the trim and clips where necessary.

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Just saying etc… the principle reason for headlining failure is humidity, and specifically humidity change. Keeping a car outdoors makes this happen faster, and keeping a car with non-functional or unused aircon also makes it happen faster (because the climate control delivers dried air into the car and helps keep the damp away).

Overnight temperature changes cycle outside air through the cabin due to air pressure changes and this keeps bringing new moisture into the car. The climate control system feeds incoming air through the chiller even when the system is calling for warm (and then heats it up) because this process dries the air and thus reduces moisture in the car. The puddle you see under the car after you’ve been driving it is water condensed out of the incoming air by the climate control.

Best temporary fix, and I have had to use them in almost all my Jags, btw (why didn’t Jag use a stronger adhesive?) are “Saggystoppers”. You used to be able to buy them at PepBoys, but now you have to order them online. They look like tiny upholstery buttons, clear in color, that have a corkscrew-shaped needle tip on them. I think they come like a dozen or so per box. Once you screw them in place into the backing board with your fingers they STAY and so does the headliner fabric, and don’t look very obvious, being so small and clear. :+1:

Permanent fix is to use the more $$$ form of the 3M Auto Upholstery adhesive spray. Don’t use the cheaper version, but the one that costs a bit more. It holds up very well over the years and heat. Wish Jag would have used this stuff at the factory! :slightly_frowning_face:

Oops - just saw Neil’s post after I posted. Yes, those are “Saggystoppers” by any other name.

Great video. I would only note a couple of differences for the N.A. models. (1) we have a sunroof, which considerably complicates the job … :slightly_frowning_face: and (2) it looks like the U.K. models have the alarm fob sensor on the trim part between the “B” and “C” pillars. IIRC, ours is near the back of the headliner. :pensive:

Hi Paul,
My use of Saggystoppers is now a permanent fix as I will never do more on that issue, it looks tidy and the lining will never drop again so that’s it on that one.
As an aside 2 years on from that post it has just sailed through another MOT! It is definitely the best car I’ve ever bought (£3500 more than 9 years ago) it certainly doesn’t owe me anything.

Great to hear, Neil! btw, I was watching a 3-part video on YouTube last night where a car show dude interviews a long-time salesman at a Jag dealership in the U.K. a few years back. First part of the vids was about the late model XJ40s, the second part, the XJS (which the salesman candidly didn’t think too much of, btw, due to reliability issues) and the third part, the X-300s (which he gave high praise for, btw). Each time it came up as to looking for and buying a used one, the salesman mentioned something about “H” Class, “F” Class, “G” class, etc. The selling prices varied based on the class the particular car fell into, apparently. Does that classification system have something to do with MOT there or what is it all about?

I think it may mean: High class (immaculate/showroom), First class and good/fair. The MOT is basically a Pass/Fail based on mechanical condition/function and emmissions, which has just been upgraded to cover more specific functions issues.

Nothing wrong with the OEM adhesive, as you find out when trying to remove old crumbs. It’s the foam backing itself that crumbles.

I remember that was the problem with the XJ40s (and I even remember some of those crumbs falling out of mine), but I thought Jag went to a different type of backing material (fiberglasse?) starting with the X-300 models (and possibly the face-lift XJSes) (?) :confused: