[Saloon-lovers] 48 year old sound deadener.... is it time for it to go?

Saloons
1

Hi,

I’m about to start the restoration process for a 1960 Mark 2
Auto. The car is in pretty good shape and very little rust
found, so far at least.

The car has a thick sound deadening paint layer (now hard
and brittle) and I think it’s done its job very well over
the years. This layer is under the car, in the engine bay
and under the bonnet.

It is full of cracks and very brittle but seems to be well
bonded to the metal.

Is this standard from the factory? If so, is there general
opinion on if I should remove it (that will be fun) or
simply refresh it with a newer layer?

Perhaps it would be better to remove it to see if any rust
is forming due to the cracks?

Thanks

Glenn–
GlennLogan
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2

In reply to a message from GlennLogan sent Sun 11 May 2008:

opinions will vary Glenn. If you’re doing a complete disassembly
and the body shell is going to be stripped completely, put on a
rotisserie, etc., then obviously.

If only a cosmetic restoration, just refresh it. I don’t think the
engine compartment coating is original, they are normally just
painted same color as the rest of the car. If the engine is out of
the car, just repaint the engine compartment and hood.

Zurdo–
The original message included these comments:

I’m about to start the restoration process for a 1960 Mark 2
Auto. The car is in pretty good shape and very little rust
found, so far at least.
The car has a thick sound deadening paint layer (now hard
and brittle) and I think it’s done its job very well over
the years. This layer is under the car, in the engine bay
and under the bonnet.
It is full of cracks and very brittle but seems to be well
bonded to the metal.
Is this standard from the factory? If so, is there general
opinion on if I should remove it (that will be fun) or

–
1965 3.8 ‘S’ 1984 XJ-6
Florida, United States
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3

In reply to a message from zurdo sent Sun 11 May 2008:

Glen,

On the Mark 2, the sound deadener is original - both under
the car and in the engine compartment. The paint is applied
over the sound deadener and therefore has a textured
appearance.

I wanted to replicate the original factory finish in the
visible areas (under the bonnet) but just wanted to protect
the car where it wasn’t going to be visible. Like yours, my
car had no rust so I didn’t use a rotisserie. Since I was
painting over the material in the engine compartment I
decided to replace it to give a good base under the new
paint. The original material is tar-based. I just removed
it using a putty knife with a combination of mineral spirits
and a heat gun (not at the same time). It came right off
and wasn’t as difficult as I expected. I left the
undercoating under the car and just touched it up with 3M
spray undercoating.–
Bruce Grinnell, 1963 Mark 2 (and too many Land Rovers)
Montpelier, VA, United States
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4

In reply to a message from BruceG sent Sun 11 May 2008:

I removed the sound deadener from my 1964 Riviera and repainted the
underside. http://www.brockportinternational.com/xjs/Dir5/0002.JPG
I found that any solvent just made things messy. I used a cheap
Black & Decker heat gun and a putty knife for a scraper.
Be sure to use a well worn putty knife or grind the corners round.
The squared corners will dig into the metal and make scratches that
take extra time to cover.
If you have time, I have found that you can squirt automatic
transmission fluid into those cracks and in a few days the big hard
chunks will come loose so you can pull them off. I have used one of
the pistol type oil cans to apply it. Works fine.
Bernie–
The original message included these comments:

it using a putty knife with a combination of mineral spirits
and a heat gun (not at the same time). It came right off

–
Bernie Daily
Brockport/New York, United States
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5

In reply to a message from zurdo sent Sun 11 May 2008:

I had the same substance on my Mark X… I’m in the process of
removing it. What I found was that there was indeed some rust
behind that layer. You’re right in that it’s very well bonded to
the metal, and it’s a big mess to remove.

I’ve been heating the area for removal with an infrared lamp to
loosen a wide area. Then I use a heat gun and 1.5’’ scraper to
remove the gunk. I was left with a thin layer of tarry substance
that is hit with a flap disc, then wiped down with laquer thinner
and steel wool. A coat of Eastwood Coroless over than, then paint,
etc. It is a terrible job. However, I’ve found and patched
numerous small rust-through areas and I’ve discovered other rust
beneath the undercoat. However, it’s worth it to me to do it.

Looking back, I wish that I’d kept the suspension in the car,
removed the engine and interior, and taken it to be sandblasted
underneath.–
Travst
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6

While we are on this thread, I have a sort of related question.

My Mark IX body is finally ready to be painted, so I will have it back in my
garage soon. What are the list’s recommendations for sound deadening
material to put in the doors and behind the dash? My ark 2 had all kinds of material
behind the dash, but nothing in the doors.

Frank Morse

In a message dated 5/11/2008 12:41:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jsandefur@bham.rr.com writes:
In reply to a message from zurdo sent Sun 11 May 2008:

I had the same substance on my Mark X… I’m in the process of
removing it. What I found was that there was indeed some rust
behind that layer. You’re right in that it’s very well bonded to
the metal, and it’s a big mess to remove.

I’ve been heating the area for removal with an infrared lamp to
loosen a wide area. Then I use a heat gun and 1.5’’ scraper to
remove the gunk. I was left with a thin layer of tarry substance
that is hit with a flap disc, then wiped down with laquer thinner
and steel wool. A coat of Eastwood Coroless over than, then paint,
etc. It is a terrible job. However, I’ve found and patched
numerous small rust-through areas and I’ve discovered other rust
beneath the undercoat. However, it’s worth it to me to do it.

Looking back, I wish that I’d kept the suspension in the car,
removed the engine and interior, and taken it to be sandblasted
underneath.–
Travst
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7

In reply to a message from SUEUM@aol.com sent Sun 11 May 2008:

I’ve used this stuff before:

It’s less expensive than Dynamat and works extremely well. I took
the entire interior out of a Scion and put this down and did the
inside of the doors as well. It used to be called brown bread and
is highly regarded.–
Travst
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8

Thank you. I’ll check it out.

Frank Morse

In a message dated 5/11/2008 3:10:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jsandefur@bham.rr.com writes:
www.b-quiet.com/

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9

In reply to a message from SUEUM@aol.com sent Sun 11 May 2008:

Frank,
I went all out to sound deaden my �63 Mark X. It was expensive but
I am glad I did it.

Every square inch of the interior, except roof, was covered Dynamat
Extreme. The entire boot and sections of the boot lid also were
covered in Dynamat Extreme. It took me about five days to cover it
all with just the Dynamat Extreme.

The firewall was also covered with a layer of Tac Mat and then
covered with a layer of jute backed hardura to retain an original
appearance.

The floors of the Mark X originally had about one inch of jute. I
covered the floors with Dynamat Extreme. Then came a layer of
Extreme Liner, which has a layer of lead between two layers of
foam. Next was a layer of Tac Mat. On top of this is a layer of
jute. Covering it all is the wool carpet.

The insides of the doors received the Dynamat Extreme and a coat of
Dynaspray in the hard to reach places.

In the boot, I also used Tac Mat on the sides between the petrol
tanks. The hard to reach places got a shot of Dynaspray. The floor
and other areas were also covered with jute and hardura for
originality.

I�m sure that for most of you, this is overkill. I started with a
bead blasted shell which made it much easier. I am installing a
modern stereo in the car and wanted to be able to clearly hear the
music without having the speakers rattle the loose panels. With
just under 1,000 miles on the car, I am very happy with how quiet
she is. You only get one shot at doing it correctly.

There are a couple pictures on the BigJags website: http://www.big-
jags.de/jags/bigjags/restaurierung/micah/micah_part5.html

http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html--
The original message included these comments:

While we are on this thread, I have a sort of related question.
My Mark IX body is finally ready to be painted, so I will have it back in my
garage soon. What are the list’s recommendations for sound deadening
material to put in the doors and behind the dash? My ark 2 had all kinds of material
behind the dash, but nothing in the doors.
Frank Morse

–
Micah 1963 Mark X (351885BW)
California, United States
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10

On the Dynamat web site they offer Extreme and Ultimate. Which is better?
Also, where did you get Tac Mat and Dynaspray? The same web site?

Frank

In a message dated 5/11/2008 5:10:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
micahkev@pacbell.net writes:
In reply to a message from @SUEUM sent Sun 11 May 2008:

Frank,
I went all out to sound deaden my ’63 Mark X. It was expensive but
I am glad I did it.

Every square inch of the interior, except roof, was covered Dynamat
Extreme. The entire boot and sections of the boot lid also were
covered in Dynamat Extreme. It took me about five days to cover it
all with just the Dynamat Extreme.

The firewall was also covered with a layer of Tac Mat and then
covered with a layer of jute backed hardura to retain an original
appearance.

The floors of the Mark X originally had about one inch of jute. I
covered the floors with Dynamat Extreme. Then came a layer of
Extreme Liner, which has a layer of lead between two layers of
foam. Next was a layer of Tac Mat. On top of this is a layer of
jute. Covering it all is the wool carpet.

The insides of the doors received the Dynamat Extreme and a coat of
Dynaspray in the hard to reach places.

In the boot, I also used Tac Mat on the sides between the petrol
tanks. The hard to reach places got a shot of Dynaspray. The floor
and other areas were also covered with jute and hardura for
originality.

I’m sure that for most of you, this is overkill. I started with a
bead blasted shell which made it much easier. I am installing a
modern stereo in the car and wanted to be able to clearly hear the
music without having the speakers rattle the loose panels. With
just under 1,000 miles on the car, I am very happy with how quiet
she is. You only get one shot at doing it correctly.

There are a couple pictures on the BigJags website: http://www.big-
jags.de/jags/bigjags/restaurierung/micah/micah_part5.html

http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html--
The original message included these comments:

While we are on this thread, I have a sort of related question.
My Mark IX body is finally ready to be painted, so I will have it back in
my
garage soon. What are the list’s recommendations for sound deadening
material to put in the doors and behind the dash? My ark 2 had all kinds
of material
behind the dash, but nothing in the doors.
Frank Morse

–
Micah 1963 Mark X (351885BW)
California, United States
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11

In reply to a message from SUEUM@aol.com sent Mon 12 May 2008:

Frank,

From what I understand, Ultimate is designed for �stereo
competition� use. Believe it or not, they have contests to see who
can have the loudest and distortion free car stereo. I believe
Ultimate is used to keep the car panels from flexing by the
pressure wave created by these insane stereos.

All the products are listed on the Dynamat website.

I would not order directly from the website. They are expensive.
Search the internet and eBay for better prices. Also, Dynamat
Extreme is heavy and very expensive to ship. In the end, it might
be cheaper for you to purchase it locally.–
The original message included these comments:

On the Dynamat web site they offer Extreme and Ultimate. Which is better?
Also, where did you get Tac Mat and Dynaspray? The same web site?
Frank

–
Micah 1963 Mark X (351885BW)
California, United States
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12

Thanks for the info. I’ll start looking for alternate sources.

Frank

In a message dated 5/12/2008 4:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
micahkev@pacbell.net writes:
In reply to a message from @SUEUM sent Mon 12 May 2008:

Frank,

From what I understand, Ultimate is designed for “stereo
competition” use. Believe it or not, they have contests to see who
can have the loudest and distortion free car stereo. I believe
Ultimate is used to keep the car panels from flexing by the
pressure wave created by these insane stereos.

All the products are listed on the Dynamat website.

I would not order directly from the website. They are expensive.
Search the internet and eBay for better prices. Also, Dynamat
Extreme is heavy and very expensive to ship. In the end, it might
be cheaper for you to purchase it locally.–
The original message included these comments:

On the Dynamat web site they offer Extreme and Ultimate. Which is better?

Also, where did you get Tac Mat and Dynaspray? The same web site?
Frank

–
Micah 1963 Mark X (351885BW)
California, United States
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13

In reply to a message from GlennLogan sent Sun 11 May 2008:

Take it off Glenn, unless you remove it you won’t know if it has
rust. The easiest way to remove the tar is to wait until winter,
and use a blunted 3/4’’ woodchisel and a mallet. At low temperatures
the tar chips of very very easily leaving almost nothing stuck to
the metal.

Andrew

p.s. I realize it is poor timing to mention this trick to the poor
sods who are planning to do this job in the summer…–
The original message included these comments:

I’m about to start the restoration process for a 1960 Mark 2
The car has a thick sound deadening paint layer (now hard
Perhaps it would be better to remove it to see if any rust
is forming due to the cracks?

–
1968 3.8S
Zurich, Switzerland
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14

In reply to a message from GlennLogan sent Sun 11 May 2008:

Thanks guys,

Always nice to validate ideas before starting - I think I’ll
remove the old stuff.

Two points worth noting!

It is heading into winter down here in Melbourne which might
help make it even more brittle; although it probably won’t
get down to anything like a Swiss winter!

And two, I agree I won’t use the heat gun at the same time
as any thinners/spirits!

I’ll report back when I get into it - I’ll try a section
with transmission oil and see how what works.

Glenn–
GlennLogan
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15

I found that using heat makes a gummy mess and any liquid applied was
ineffective. Chiseling the stuff off is the quickest and leaves very
little residue which can easily be removed with chemicals.
51 MKVII
Alan Schultz

GlennLogan wrote:

It is heading into winter down here in Melbourne which might
help make it even more brittle; although it probably won’t
get down to anything like a Swiss winter!

And two, I agree I won’t use the heat gun at the same time
as any thinners/spirits!

I’ll report back when I get into it - I’ll try a section
with transmission oil and see how what works.

Glenn

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