graham
if the floats and needle and seats are set
right they will shut off all flow of fuel unless fuel preasure is so high as
to over power them my guess might be the starting carb or the seats are not
tight .is the starting carb working and when you blew out the fuel line did
you blow dirt into the carbsand the starting carb change the rotor ,check for
dirt in carbs and starting carb check vacume to dist.and timing also make
sure vacum pots work freely and have oil of proper wieght in them good luck
H W HANNNON
Another take on your flooding problem - your fuel pumps are standard SUs I
suppose - or has the PO mistakenly fitted high pressure pumps from some fuel
injected car?
Cheers–
Phil Driscoll
Dial Solutions
+44 (0)113 294 5112
http://www.dialsolutions.com
http://www.dtonline.org
Hi All,
I have fitted my new and correct rotor arm and this made no difference at
all. I re adjusted the float levels again and I am sure that these are OK.
To prove a point I emptied the chambers and only filled them up manually to
less than half full, disconnected the pump and tried to start engine -
petrol flooded out the intakes.
I agree Carson - my rubbish theory was rubbish. At the time of writing I was
totally frustrated and anything seemed possible. Back to reality.
I have checked the cam timing again and ignition timing and done a
compression test and double checked the contacts, plugs, dashpot oil, carb
settings, eliminated the pump by disconnecting it, checked float levels and
needle valves (AGAIN), checked main jet needles and seating.
The engine fires occassionally whilst trying to start but almost straight
away fuel pours out the intakes. (I am not talking the odd drip but a steady
flow from both carbs!!!) I don,t think there is anything drasticaly wrong
with the carbs as I have had one of them repaired and re jetted by a
specialist carb firm.
I will try all suggestions again - watch this space.
Graham----- Original Message -----
From: Carson carson@alaska.net
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Graham,
Ahh, yes: the REST of the story. You sure you got those cams timed
right?
That little job ain’t no walk in the park, y’know.With all due respect, though, Graham, your theory about a plugged fuel
line
compensating for a short rotor…and some cylinder now refusing to accept
fuel…does sort of sound like, well, rubbish. But, who knows…We’re all standing by.
Tom Carson
Juneau, AlaskaFrom: “Kat moseley” <@Kat_moseley>
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:22:59 +0100
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionHi Carson ,
Thanks for your detailed reply to my flooding problem. It would seem
that I
have more than one fault that may be compounding to make matters worse.
My
rotor arm is definitely the wrong one (I think it is a 4 cylinder engine
one).
Perhaps at this point I will give you a bit of background into the
engine.
It was originally stripped and rebuilt by someone else who did bot
finish it
and I ended up finding the parts needed to coomplete it but by this time
moistuer had got into the cylinders and although everything seemed OK I
took
the head off and ended up having it skimmed etc. What I am saying is
that
the engine has not actually run properly since rebuilding. Here is the
strange bit - when the pipe in the tank was blocked it would start first
time and idle OK but would not rev even with the wrong rotor arm (with a
1/4" gap). At one point I put a pressure hose on the pipe to the tank
and
blew it free and then I started getting the flooding problem. The next
day
the flooding had gone and I was back to just idling - the pipe had
blocked
up again and so I removed the tank and properly cleaned it out and freed
the
blockage. (why did they put 2 right angle bends in the pipe in the tank
!!!).
Here’s my guess as to what may be happening - The incorrect rotor arm is
causing the engine to fire on 3 or 4 cylinders intermittently and with
incorrect timing. The restricted fuel flow somehow compensated for this.
Now
that I have full fuel flow it is being sucked in to the manifold area
but
not into all the cylinders and causing flooding. The fuel seems to be
leaking back from the manifold. Is this a complete load of rubish ??
Re. the float levels - I have gone over these countless times and have
tried
filling the float chambers up and then disconnecting the pump to release
any
pressure in the pipe then taking the tops of the carbs to check that the
level is correct, reassembled and it still pours out the air intakes on
trying to start.I am getting a new rotor arm tommorrow and so will let you know what
happens.Thanks again for the advice by all listers.
Graham. MK2 3.8 MOD 1962
Does the fuel pour out the intakes whenever the ignition is on or only when
you are cranking the engine?
This may sound strange but could the valve timing be so far off that you are
sucking air in the exhaust ports and blowing it out the carbs?
Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS
‘62 3.8 MK2 MOD (on the road again)
Jag-Lovers’ Picnic at
This domain may be for sale Message-----
From: Kat moseley katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Hi All,
I have fitted my new and correct rotor arm and this made no difference at
all. I re adjusted the float levels again and I am sure that these are OK.
To prove a point I emptied the chambers and only filled them up manually to
less than half full, disconnected the pump and tried to start engine -
petrol flooded out the intakes.
I agree Carson - my rubbish theory was rubbish. At the time of writing I
was
totally frustrated and anything seemed possible. Back to reality.
I have checked the cam timing again and ignition timing and done a
compression test and double checked the contacts, plugs, dashpot oil, carb
settings, eliminated the pump by disconnecting it, checked float levels and
needle valves (AGAIN), checked main jet needles and seating.The engine fires occassionally whilst trying to start but almost straight
away fuel pours out the intakes. (I am not talking the odd drip but a
steady
flow from both carbs!!!) I don,t think there is anything drasticaly wrong
with the carbs as I have had one of them repaired and re jetted by a
specialist carb firm.I will try all suggestions again - watch this space.
Graham
At 19:22 30/05/00 -0400, you wrote:
Hi,
the only thing that I can think of is the starting carburetor. Is the
solenoid energized? Is the solenoid present? Have you checked the needle
valve that acts as a jet/valve in the stating carb.
My experience is that this thing has a capacity to deliver lots of fuel to
the intake system if left on or is not working correctly.
Ned
'61 Mk2
'78 Holden Kingswood
'96 Holden Commodore
Sydney, Australia
Graham,
I think Mike Eck may be on to something here. Let’s assume the carbs are
OK. The theory goes like this:
The piston travels down the cylinder bore whilst the intake valve opens and
the exhaust valve is closed. The result is a sucking action. Air is sucked
in through the carb and fuel is pulled into the orifice of the carb where it
mixes with the air as the air travels into the cylinder.
This is pure physics. And the suction is fairly strong.
Try disconnecting that fuel pump and take the rotor out of the distributor
so nothing can ignite, then try holding your hand over the carb intake while
you crank the engine. It should suck. If it doesn’t…you have Eck’s
situation. Which would mean the intake valve is open as the piston rises up
in the cylinder. Which would mean the cam timing is way off.
If it DOES suck, then I have to return to the carbs as the likely culprit.
Tom> From: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:34:15 +0100
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionHi All,
I have fitted my new and correct rotor arm and this made no difference at
all. I re adjusted the float levels again and I am sure that these are OK.
To prove a point I emptied the chambers and only filled them up manually to
less than half full, disconnected the pump and tried to start engine -
petrol flooded out the intakes.
I agree Carson - my rubbish theory was rubbish. At the time of writing I was
totally frustrated and anything seemed possible. Back to reality.
I have checked the cam timing again and ignition timing and done a
compression test and double checked the contacts, plugs, dashpot oil, carb
settings, eliminated the pump by disconnecting it, checked float levels and
needle valves (AGAIN), checked main jet needles and seating.The engine fires occassionally whilst trying to start but almost straight
away fuel pours out the intakes. (I am not talking the odd drip but a steady
flow from both carbs!!!) I don,t think there is anything drasticaly wrong
with the carbs as I have had one of them repaired and re jetted by a
specialist carb firm.I will try all suggestions again - watch this space.
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Carson <@Tom_Carson>
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionGraham,
Ahh, yes: the REST of the story. You sure you got those cams timed
right?
That little job ain’t no walk in the park, y’know.With all due respect, though, Graham, your theory about a plugged fuel
line
compensating for a short rotor…and some cylinder now refusing to accept
fuel…does sort of sound like, well, rubbish. But, who knows…We’re all standing by.
Tom Carson
Juneau, AlaskaFrom: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:22:59 +0100
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionHi Carson ,
Thanks for your detailed reply to my flooding problem. It would seem
that I
have more than one fault that may be compounding to make matters worse.
My
rotor arm is definitely the wrong one (I think it is a 4 cylinder engine
one).
Perhaps at this point I will give you a bit of background into the
engine.
It was originally stripped and rebuilt by someone else who did bot
finish it
and I ended up finding the parts needed to coomplete it but by this time
moistuer had got into the cylinders and although everything seemed OK I
took
the head off and ended up having it skimmed etc. What I am saying is
that
the engine has not actually run properly since rebuilding. Here is the
strange bit - when the pipe in the tank was blocked it would start first
time and idle OK but would not rev even with the wrong rotor arm (with a
1/4" gap). At one point I put a pressure hose on the pipe to the tank
and
blew it free and then I started getting the flooding problem. The next
day
the flooding had gone and I was back to just idling - the pipe had
blocked
up again and so I removed the tank and properly cleaned it out and freed
the
blockage. (why did they put 2 right angle bends in the pipe in the tank
!!!).
Here’s my guess as to what may be happening - The incorrect rotor arm is
causing the engine to fire on 3 or 4 cylinders intermittently and with
incorrect timing. The restricted fuel flow somehow compensated for this.
Now
that I have full fuel flow it is being sucked in to the manifold area
but
not into all the cylinders and causing flooding. The fuel seems to be
leaking back from the manifold. Is this a complete load of rubish ??
Re. the float levels - I have gone over these countless times and have
tried
filling the float chambers up and then disconnecting the pump to release
any
pressure in the pipe then taking the tops of the carbs to check that the
level is correct, reassembled and it still pours out the air intakes on
trying to start.I am getting a new rotor arm tommorrow and so will let you know what
happens.Thanks again for the advice by all listers.
Graham. MK2 3.8 MOD 1962
Hi Graham,
I believe that Tom is right in his method of testing your intake system. To
me also it sounds like the valve timing is way off.
However. . . for safety’s sake and especially with all that gas flying about
I would NOT just take the rotor out of the distributor. I believe that a
safer way would be to disconnect the coil primary wire. . . the one that is
not connected to the distributor. That way there won’t be high voltage
sparks flying about near your distributor ( read, near your wet gasoline
spewing carburettors) looking for a place to go to ground. I’d hate to see
your project going up in flames before it gets going ! !
Be safe 
regards,
Dave Symington Fernie BC
66 S Type----- Original Message -----
From: Carson carson@alaska.net
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Graham,
I think Mike Eck may be on to something here. Let’s assume the carbs are
OK. The theory goes like this:The piston travels down the cylinder bore whilst the intake valve opens
and
the exhaust valve is closed. The result is a sucking action. Air is
sucked
in through the carb and fuel is pulled into the orifice of the carb where
it
mixes with the air as the air travels into the cylinder.This is pure physics. And the suction is fairly strong.
Try disconnecting that fuel pump and take the rotor out of the distributor
so nothing can ignite, then try holding your hand over the carb intake
while
you crank the engine. It should suck. If it doesn’t…you have Eck’s
situation. Which would mean the intake valve is open as the piston rises
up
in the cylinder. Which would mean the cam timing is way off.If it DOES suck, then I have to return to the carbs as the likely culprit.
Tom
From: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:34:15 +0100
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionHi All,
I have fitted my new and correct rotor arm and this made no difference
at
all. I re adjusted the float levels again and I am sure that these are
OK.
To prove a point I emptied the chambers and only filled them up manually
to
less than half full, disconnected the pump and tried to start engine -
petrol flooded out the intakes.
I agree Carson - my rubbish theory was rubbish. At the time of writing I
was
totally frustrated and anything seemed possible. Back to reality.
I have checked the cam timing again and ignition timing and done a
compression test and double checked the contacts, plugs, dashpot oil,
carb
settings, eliminated the pump by disconnecting it, checked float levels
and
needle valves (AGAIN), checked main jet needles and seating.The engine fires occassionally whilst trying to start but almost
straight
away fuel pours out the intakes. (I am not talking the odd drip but a
steady
flow from both carbs!!!) I don,t think there is anything drasticaly
wrong
with the carbs as I have had one of them repaired and re jetted by a
specialist carb firm.I will try all suggestions again - watch this space.
Graham
----- Original Message -----
From: Carson carson@alaska.net
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionGraham,
Ahh, yes: the REST of the story. You sure you got those cams timed
right?
That little job ain’t no walk in the park, y’know.With all due respect, though, Graham, your theory about a plugged fuel
line
compensating for a short rotor…and some cylinder now refusing to
accept
fuel…does sort of sound like, well, rubbish. But, who knows…We’re all standing by.
Tom Carson
Juneau, AlaskaFrom: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:22:59 +0100
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionHi Carson ,
Thanks for your detailed reply to my flooding problem. It would seem
that I
have more than one fault that may be compounding to make matters
worse.
My
rotor arm is definitely the wrong one (I think it is a 4 cylinder
engine
one).
Perhaps at this point I will give you a bit of background into the
engine.
It was originally stripped and rebuilt by someone else who did bot
finish it
and I ended up finding the parts needed to coomplete it but by this
time
moistuer had got into the cylinders and although everything seemed OK
I
took
the head off and ended up having it skimmed etc. What I am saying is
that
the engine has not actually run properly since rebuilding. Here is the
strange bit - when the pipe in the tank was blocked it would start
first
time and idle OK but would not rev even with the wrong rotor arm (with
a
1/4" gap). At one point I put a pressure hose on the pipe to the tank
and
blew it free and then I started getting the flooding problem. The next
day
the flooding had gone and I was back to just idling - the pipe had
blocked
up again and so I removed the tank and properly cleaned it out and
freed
the
blockage. (why did they put 2 right angle bends in the pipe in the
tank
!!!).
Here’s my guess as to what may be happening - The incorrect rotor arm
is
causing the engine to fire on 3 or 4 cylinders intermittently and with
incorrect timing. The restricted fuel flow somehow compensated for
this.
Now
that I have full fuel flow it is being sucked in to the manifold area
but
not into all the cylinders and causing flooding. The fuel seems to be
leaking back from the manifold. Is this a complete load of rubish ??
Re. the float levels - I have gone over these countless times and have
tried
filling the float chambers up and then disconnecting the pump to
release
any
pressure in the pipe then taking the tops of the carbs to check that
the
level is correct, reassembled and it still pours out the air intakes
on
trying to start.I am getting a new rotor arm tommorrow and so will let you know what
happens.Thanks again for the advice by all listers.
Graham. MK2 3.8 MOD 1962
Good point. The starting carb is hard plumbed to several points on the
bottom of the intake manifold. If it were delivering fuel with nowhere to
go the fuel could run out the carbs,I suppose. Trouble is, when I turn on
the ignition of my car and crank it, the starting carb IS energized and it
stays energized until the water temp rises a bit. No fuel flows out of my
intake manifold.
The engine sucks that extra fuel in and the doggone thing starts.
Tom> From: Ned Blagojevic nbx@ansto.gov.au
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:33:05 +1000
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionAt 19:22 30/05/00 -0400, you wrote:
Hi,
the only thing that I can think of is the starting carburetor. Is the
solenoid energized? Is the solenoid present? Have you checked the needle
valve that acts as a jet/valve in the stating carb.My experience is that this thing has a capacity to deliver lots of fuel to
the intake system if left on or is not working correctly.Ned
'61 Mk2
'78 Holden Kingswood
'96 Holden CommodoreSydney, Australia
As a follow-up, does anyone know what happens if you were to accidentally
swap the intake and exhaust cams?
Mike Eck
'51 XK120 OTS
‘62 3.8 MK2 MOD (on the road again)
Jag-Lovers’ Picnic at
This domain may be for sale Message-----
From: Carson carson@alaska.net
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Graham,
I think Mike Eck may be on to something here. Let’s assume the carbs are
OK. The theory goes like this:The piston travels down the cylinder bore whilst the intake valve opens and
the exhaust valve is closed. The result is a sucking action. Air is
sucked
in through the carb and fuel is pulled into the orifice of the carb where
it
mixes with the air as the air travels into the cylinder.This is pure physics. And the suction is fairly strong.
Try disconnecting that fuel pump and take the rotor out of the distributor
so nothing can ignite, then try holding your hand over the carb intake
while
you crank the engine. It should suck. If it doesn’t…you have Eck’s
situation. Which would mean the intake valve is open as the piston rises
up
in the cylinder. Which would mean the cam timing is way off.If it DOES suck, then I have to return to the carbs as the likely culprit.
Tom
The engine runs backwards
Actually one April 1 Ryan Border announced he had done this, and an
amazing number of people just accepted it without thinking about it,
myself included probably
Alastair Lauener
64 S-Type>As a follow-up, does anyone know what happens if you were to accidentally
swap the intake and exhaust cams?
Have you checked the diaphragms
Alastair Lauener
64 S_Type>The engine fires occassionally whilst trying to start but almost straight
away fuel pours out the intakes. (I am not talking the odd drip but a steady
flow from both carbs!!!) I don,t think there is anything drasticaly wrong
with the carbs as I have had one of them repaired and re jetted by a
specialist carb firm.I will try all suggestions again - watch this space.
Graham
I actually did swap the cams by accident once, and the engine does indeed
run backwards… which is to say it sucks air in the tail-pipe and spits it
back out the intake manifold when cranked. Have a frend hold his hand over
the tail-pipe(s) and see if it sucks when the engine is cranked as a quick
test. Otherwise, the engine sounds completely normal when cranked- I
probably tried to start my car for an hour before figuring out what was
wrong.
Of course, the car won’t actually start, since it isn’t drawing any fuel
into the chambers… but it might make a feeble attempt at it if you pull a
few plugs and give it a good dose of starting fluid.
My lame April fools post suggested I actually got the car to run backwards
with reversed cams.
Ryan.-----Original Message-----
From: Alastair Lauener [mailto:alauener@sbe.napier.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 2:33 AM
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
The engine runs backwards
Actually one April 1 Ryan Border announced he had done this, and an
amazing number of people just accepted it without thinking about it,
myself included probably
Alastair Lauener
64 S-Type
As a follow-up, does anyone know what happens if you were to accidentally
swap the intake and exhaust cams?
Thanks for all the advice still coming in from various people I don’t
believe that the cam timing is out as I have double checked this and also it
is unlikley that the engine would have started and idled Ok previously. I
have managed to get the engine to run for a few seconds by disconnecting the
pump, holding full throttle and ignoring all the fuel spewing out. It will
start and run very intermitently for about 5 - 10 secs then pick up and rev
just before dying as you would expect as it runs out of fuel. This suggests
to me that the problem is with the carbs. A thought has just occurred to
me - as the PO was dumb enough to fit the incorrect rotor arm it is possible
that I have the incorrect main jet needles. I don’t know if this would cause
such a drastic fault. I stripped the carbs down tonight and checked the
diaphragms - they both were flexible and I could not see any damage to
them - but this sounds like a good theory. I think I will get new needles
and diaphragms and see what happens. The starting solenoid is working Ok and
the level in the accelerating carb is also Ok. It doesn’t make any
difference if the starting solenoid is disconnected or not.
Just to make sure of the cam timing I have had the cam covers off and turned
the crank manually whilst checking that the valves are going up and down in
the correct order and at the correct time and so I am fairly certain that
this part is OK.
I will let you all know what happens after fitting new carb bits.
Graham
1962 MK2 MOD 3.8----- Original Message -----
From: Carson carson@alaska.net
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Good point. The starting carb is hard plumbed to several points on the
bottom of the intake manifold. If it were delivering fuel with nowhere to
go the fuel could run out the carbs,I suppose. Trouble is, when I turn on
the ignition of my car and crank it, the starting carb IS energized and it
stays energized until the water temp rises a bit. No fuel flows out of my
intake manifold.The engine sucks that extra fuel in and the doggone thing starts.
Tom
From: Ned Blagojevic nbx@ansto.gov.au
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:33:05 +1000
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionAt 19:22 30/05/00 -0400, you wrote:
Hi,
the only thing that I can think of is the starting carburetor. Is the
solenoid energized? Is the solenoid present? Have you checked the needle
valve that acts as a jet/valve in the stating carb.My experience is that this thing has a capacity to deliver lots of fuel
to
the intake system if left on or is not working correctly.Ned
'61 Mk2
'78 Holden Kingswood
'96 Holden CommodoreSydney, Australia
Incorrect needles would make the mixture too rich or too lean, but because
the air flow across the opening is drawing the gas from the float bowl, it
couldn’t possibly draw enough to cause it to pour out the intake side of the
carbs.
The only thing I can think of that would cause this, is if the fuel is
literally being pumped out around the needle. The only way that could
happen, based on the DPOs previous repairs, would be if the float needle
periodically stuck which would normally cause the engine to suddenly go very
rich and a stream of gas to flow out the overflow tube. What if the PO
didn’t like the thought of all that gas poring onto the ground and he
somehow blocked the overflow?
I’m not sure what you mean by the “accelerating carb.” There are dual HD6
carbs and a starting carb for enriching the mixture at startup. Other than
that, there are no other fuel/air mixing devices on the car.
I’d check the float bowls, and make sure you can get liquid through the
overflows.
“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
1952 XK120 Roadster #S673129 (w/XK140 engine and C head)
1958 3.4 Litre Saloon / 1984 XJ6 4.2L / 1985 XJ6 VDP / 1986 XJ6 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (USA) – Internet Service Provider, TV & Phone | Sparklight Original Message -----
From: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Thanks for all the advice still coming in from various people I don’t
believe that the cam timing is out as I have double checked this and also
it
is unlikley that the engine would have started and idled Ok previously. I
have managed to get the engine to run for a few seconds by disconnecting
the
pump, holding full throttle and ignoring all the fuel spewing out. It will
start and run very intermitently for about 5 - 10 secs then pick up and
rev
just before dying as you would expect as it runs out of fuel. This
suggests
to me that the problem is with the carbs. A thought has just occurred to
me - as the PO was dumb enough to fit the incorrect rotor arm it is
possible
that I have the incorrect main jet needles. I don’t know if this would
cause
such a drastic fault. I stripped the carbs down tonight and checked the
diaphragms - they both were flexible and I could not see any damage to
them - but this sounds like a good theory. I think I will get new needles
and diaphragms and see what happens. The starting solenoid is working Ok
and
the level in the accelerating carb is also Ok. It doesn’t make any
difference if the starting solenoid is disconnected or not.
Just to make sure of the cam timing I have had the cam covers off and
turned
the crank manually whilst checking that the valves are going up and down
in
the correct order and at the correct time and so I am fairly certain that
this part is OK.I will let you all know what happens after fitting new carb bits.
Graham
1962 MK2 MOD 3.8
Where exactly is the fuel coming out, the top of the starter carb, the
drains, or the inlet to the carbs. If this is so, you want to be careful
the fuel isn’t also going into the engine, you may get a cylinder full of
fuel and get a hydraulic lock?
Alastair Lauener
64 S-Type>pump, holding full throttle and ignoring all the fuel spewing out. It will
Upon reflection, I have actually experienced a similar fuel gushing
experience, and it was cracked diaphragms. When I bought my car it had been
mostly sitting in a garage for the past 8 or 10 years. I drove it away and
went about 2 hours to my Dad’s house. When I got there I decided to adjust
the SUs. When I got to adjusting the main jets the process begins by
setting the top of the jet flush with the surface of the carb body. I
couldn’t get my jets to move downwards to that position at first. I thought
they were stuck so I gently tapped them and they immediately moved down to
where they belonged. And, whoosh, out came fuel from everywhere. The
diaphragms had disintegrated when I “tapped” the jets down. Old,
inflexible, and brittle.
I rebuilt the carbs, without new throttle shafts and bushings, and aside
from some initial fuel leaks they performed fine for a year. I was unhappy
with difficult to control high idle, however, and resorted to dual return
springs, and stuff like that. When I redid the head the following year, I
sent the carbs to Curto and he COMPLETELY rebuilt them…including shafts and
bushings. They came back perfect and there have been no more carb issues at
all for the last 10,000 miles.
Graham’s problem is very hard to diagnose because so many things have
happened to the engine. It could be a huge internal re-assembly issue with
the engine. But if the engine is even close to right, then it is the carbs.
I think Graham needs to get a knowledgeable friend over for a day and take
the carbs off…maybe even the intake manifold, and go over everything,
piece by piece, step by step. Sometimes the second set of eyes is needed.
A guy can look at his own mistake a million times and not see it.
That fuel is coming from somewhere, and believe me, it’s not magic. SUs are
simple, but they require everything to be in good order and assembled
correctly. Fuel can gush past faulty diaphragms, or faultily installed
diaphragms. It can gush pash faulty float needles, or faultily installed
same, or it can gush past needles that remain open because the float
mechanism is faulty or faultily installed. Graham swears everything is
correct. I swear it can’t be. Get the extra set of seasoned eyeballs.
Tom Carson> From: “Mark Stephenson” marks@trnpa.com
Reply-To: saloons@jag-lovers.org first
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:07:06 -0700
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionIncorrect needles would make the mixture too rich or too lean, but because
the air flow across the opening is drawing the gas from the float bowl, it
couldn’t possibly draw enough to cause it to pour out the intake side of the
carbs.The only thing I can think of that would cause this, is if the fuel is
literally being pumped out around the needle. The only way that could
happen, based on the DPOs previous repairs, would be if the float needle
periodically stuck which would normally cause the engine to suddenly go very
rich and a stream of gas to flow out the overflow tube. What if the PO
didn’t like the thought of all that gas poring onto the ground and he
somehow blocked the overflow?I’m not sure what you mean by the “accelerating carb.” There are dual HD6
carbs and a starting carb for enriching the mixture at startup. Other than
that, there are no other fuel/air mixing devices on the car.I’d check the float bowls, and make sure you can get liquid through the
overflows.“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
1952 XK120 Roadster #S673129 (w/XK140 engine and C head)
1958 3.4 Litre Saloon / 1984 XJ6 4.2L / 1985 XJ6 VDP / 1986 XJ6 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (USA) – Internet Service Provider, TV & Phone | Sparklight----- Original Message -----
From: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionThanks for all the advice still coming in from various people I don’t
believe that the cam timing is out as I have double checked this and also
it
is unlikley that the engine would have started and idled Ok previously. I
have managed to get the engine to run for a few seconds by disconnecting
the
pump, holding full throttle and ignoring all the fuel spewing out. It will
start and run very intermitently for about 5 - 10 secs then pick up and
rev
just before dying as you would expect as it runs out of fuel. This
suggests
to me that the problem is with the carbs. A thought has just occurred to
me - as the PO was dumb enough to fit the incorrect rotor arm it is
possible
that I have the incorrect main jet needles. I don’t know if this would
cause
such a drastic fault. I stripped the carbs down tonight and checked the
diaphragms - they both were flexible and I could not see any damage to
them - but this sounds like a good theory. I think I will get new needles
and diaphragms and see what happens. The starting solenoid is working Ok
and
the level in the accelerating carb is also Ok. It doesn’t make any
difference if the starting solenoid is disconnected or not.
Just to make sure of the cam timing I have had the cam covers off and
turned
the crank manually whilst checking that the valves are going up and down
in
the correct order and at the correct time and so I am fairly certain that
this part is OK.I will let you all know what happens after fitting new carb bits.
Graham
1962 MK2 MOD 3.8
Graham, Try hooking up a fuel pressure gage to the fuel line just before it
enters the carburetor, check that number to see if it matches the poundage
that your manual calls for. If it is way to high that would be your
problem, The PO might have installed the wrong fuel pump. My Mark X calls
for only 2.75 lbs. pressure. This is where you have to start and work
backwards from there.Type at you later.
Harry Swank
64 Mark X (Abigail)----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Stephenson marks@trnpa.com
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Introduction
Incorrect needles would make the mixture too rich or too lean, but because
the air flow across the opening is drawing the gas from the float bowl, it
couldn’t possibly draw enough to cause it to pour out the intake side of
the
carbs.The only thing I can think of that would cause this, is if the fuel is
literally being pumped out around the needle. The only way that could
happen, based on the DPOs previous repairs, would be if the float needle
periodically stuck which would normally cause the engine to suddenly go
very
rich and a stream of gas to flow out the overflow tube. What if the PO
didn’t like the thought of all that gas poring onto the ground and he
somehow blocked the overflow?I’m not sure what you mean by the “accelerating carb.” There are dual HD6
carbs and a starting carb for enriching the mixture at startup. Other than
that, there are no other fuel/air mixing devices on the car.I’d check the float bowls, and make sure you can get liquid through the
overflows.“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
1952 XK120 Roadster #S673129 (w/XK140 engine and C head)
1958 3.4 Litre Saloon / 1984 XJ6 4.2L / 1985 XJ6 VDP / 1986 XJ6 VDP
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona (USA) – Internet Service Provider, TV & Phone | Sparklight----- Original Message -----
From: “Kat moseley” katmat@cmoseley.freeserve.co.uk
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] IntroductionThanks for all the advice still coming in from various people I don’t
believe that the cam timing is out as I have double checked this and
also
it
is unlikley that the engine would have started and idled Ok previously.
I
have managed to get the engine to run for a few seconds by disconnecting
the
pump, holding full throttle and ignoring all the fuel spewing out. It
will
start and run very intermitently for about 5 - 10 secs then pick up and
rev
just before dying as you would expect as it runs out of fuel. This
suggests
to me that the problem is with the carbs. A thought has just occurred to
me - as the PO was dumb enough to fit the incorrect rotor arm it is
possible
that I have the incorrect main jet needles. I don’t know if this would
cause
such a drastic fault. I stripped the carbs down tonight and checked the
diaphragms - they both were flexible and I could not see any damage to
them - but this sounds like a good theory. I think I will get new
needles
and diaphragms and see what happens. The starting solenoid is working Ok
and
the level in the accelerating carb is also Ok. It doesn’t make any
difference if the starting solenoid is disconnected or not.
Just to make sure of the cam timing I have had the cam covers off and
turned
the crank manually whilst checking that the valves are going up and down
in
the correct order and at the correct time and so I am fairly certain
that
this part is OK.I will let you all know what happens after fitting new carb bits.
Graham
1962 MK2 MOD 3.8
Graham, I whole heartily agree with Tom, In the Harley business we call it
Emotionally involved with your Machine, You can’t see the problem because
you are attached to the vehicle emotionally speaking. I was readying one of
my prized custom Harley’s one morning when the Bike would not start, after
about a hour trying to locate the problem, ( the bike would crank over but
not start) one of my Brothers walked over and said WHY don’t you turn off
your KILL switch located on the right handle bar next to the starter button.
He said that he learned to check the obvious from ME about a month prior to
this one day when he was having the same problem with HIS scooter not
starting and I told him to turn off his Kill switch. The morale of the
story is I was emotionally attached and could not see the same problem when
it hit me right in the FACE on my own Machine. GET a second set of EYE
BALLS. Type at you later.
Harry Swank
64 Mark X
55 Harley
78 Harley
73 Ford Pickum up>
Tom Carson
I will let you all know what happens after fitting new carb bits.
Graham
1962 MK2 MOD 3.8
From: Harry E Swank panhead@pacbell.net
. GET a second set of EYE
BALLS.
Which is another reason why this list is so important. The collective resource
is of monumental dimension and value.
Richard E. Gress
Computer Professional
University of Utah
3.8 S Type
Hi again,
Thanks for all the further suggestions. Just to update everyone. I can
definitely eliminate the fuel pump as I have previosuly tried a gravity feed
bean can, and as I have also tried only filling the float chambers to about
the 3/4 mark and disconnectinmg the fuel supply it can not be a problem with
the float needles.
I have also had a friend around for a whole day (who has many re builds of
classics to his name) and he is also baffled.
Spent yesterday and part of today completely stripping the carbs again and
re assembled them but I cannot find any problems. Checked main jet needles
and they are the correct ones. (I now have a workshop manual). I have just
come in from the garage and before putting the carbs back on decided to re
check the cam timing and the ignition timing. I have noticed something which
I think is odd and would like a second opinion. You may remember I had the
incorrect rotor arm. It was shorter and did not have the leading “tail”
hence when fitting the distributor cap the position of the plug lead coming
out seemd OK. When fitting the cap with the new rotor and the carbs off (can
get a better direct view) I notice that at the firing point for the front
(6) cylinder the trailing edge of the rotor is just leaving the correct
contact in the distributor and the leading edge is just short of the next
contact. I would assume that the leading edge should be on the firing point.
My question - Is it possible to get the position of the hex cam in the
distributor out by 30 degrees. (this may explain why there was not such a
problem with the wrong rotor arm). I am having second thoughts about my
assumption above but then again why have the leading “tail” if not for
making the contact point??
Anyone care to look at their rotor in position and see which edge is on the
contact??
Graham
1962 MK2 3.8 MOD