Hi all,
Here is the outcome to my earlier email on starter problems.
The symptoms were a starter motor that appeared to be turning with a ringing
sound but wouldn’t engage. However, with the engine running the ringing
sound continued.
I had the benefit of seeing the lay of the land with an engine sitting in my
mechanics workshop. Undo two nuts and the power cable and the whole thing
drops out in your hand. The two bolts are joined by a half ring which sits
proud around the outside of the starter. No problem right!
Removal
- Jacked the car up and placed the front on stands.
- Removed the air cleaner.
- Undid the 7/16" nut and washer on the power cable at the fire wall.
- Spent the next hour or more trying to get the top nut undone. The nut is
on the rear end of the bolt and is hidden out of sight below the rear SU.
Finally worked out that a 9/16" socket on a 3/8" ratchet drive did the trick
albeit slowly. Had one stretched through to hold the socket and the other
hand over behind the cylinder head to jiggle the handle about an eighth of a
turn at a time. A spring washer came with the nut.
- Crawled under the car to attack the lower bolt. This one is quite
visible and came out easily albeit real slowly once again. Same size and
also with a spring washer.
- The starter was now free to come out but I had to remove the oil filter
first. I should have done this before removing the lower bolt. The starter
then slides towards the front of the car and then down past the engine where
the oil filter was. Its heavy and you have to be careful not to drop it on
your face.
- Removal took me just over 2.5 hours.
Inspection and Repair
8. I found the main spring had broken such that it had become a series of
rings on the shaft. It looked like fatigue. Some bits were missing.
9. The pinion restraining spring had also broken and only one small piece
was left.
10. I guess the ringing sounds I had heard had been caused by the broken
pieces of main spring rotating on the shaft and/or the pinion bouncing
against the flywheel.
11. Found a used main spring on a shelf in my mechanics workshop and he
supplied a new restraining spring on the Monday via one of his sources.
(Seems used bits are hard to come by because they are grabbed up by
prospective auto to manual converters.)
12. The drive came apart easily with the nut on the end a left hand thread.
Cleaned all parts but mine weren’t particularly dirty. Damage to the teeth
on the starter drive gear were superficial only.
13. Fitted the new parts. The restraining spring fits over a sleeve and
against a raised step on the inner end. The outer end fits into a collar.
This is followed by the pinion/gear, a washer, the main spring, the nut and
a split pin.
14. Removed the cover band, checked and cleaned the starter brushes and
these were ok.
15. Managed to get a couple of fingers into the inspection port at the
bottom of the bell housing and found two pieces of main spring.
16. The teeth on the ring gear looked ok.
Installation
17. Installation was the reverse of removal. The hard part was getting the
nuts and washers back on the bolts and tightening these within the limited
space. It took me over an hour for these. It would be better to have a
fixed rather than ratchet handle on the socket as I did to give more room
and to lead the nuts onto the bolts better.
18. Installation took me about 3 hours.
19. The car fired up with only a bare push of the button.
I hope this maybe of help to all prospective in-situ starter mechanics.
Thanks to those who offered advice and particularly to Dave Symington who
was most prompt and detailed. Hope it stops snowing there soon Dave.
Regards
Mike Gallagher
1966 mk2 3.4 (back on the road again)
Bull Creek WA
Mike,
The top bolt should be accessible from inside the car. If you remove the
centre console, there is a plate covering a hole underneath the radio. A
9/16 socket on a long extension gets to the bolt. The bottom one is quite
accessible from underneath, also with a long extension.
The first time I removed my starter, this ring holding the nuts together
was on the rear side, making the top bolt very hard to access. It took me
4 hours to get it out. That included taking the carbies out too for
access.
Stefan
'63 MK2, gearbox & starter removed
'74 MGB GTOn Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Mike and Jenny Gallagher wrote:
Hi all,
Here is the outcome to my earlier email on starter problems.
The symptoms were a starter motor that appeared to be turning with a ringing
sound but wouldn’t engage. However, with the engine running the ringing
sound continued.
I had the benefit of seeing the lay of the land with an engine sitting in my
mechanics workshop. Undo two nuts and the power cable and the whole thing
drops out in your hand. The two bolts are joined by a half ring which sits
proud around the outside of the starter. No problem right!
Removal
- Jacked the car up and placed the front on stands.
- Removed the air cleaner.
- Undid the 7/16" nut and washer on the power cable at the fire wall.
- Spent the next hour or more trying to get the top nut undone. The nut is
on the rear end of the bolt and is hidden out of sight below the rear SU.
Finally worked out that a 9/16" socket on a 3/8" ratchet drive did the trick
albeit slowly. Had one stretched through to hold the socket and the other
hand over behind the cylinder head to jiggle the handle about an eighth of a
turn at a time. A spring washer came with the nut.
- Crawled under the car to attack the lower bolt. This one is quite
visible and came out easily albeit real slowly once again. Same size and
also with a spring washer.
- The starter was now free to come out but I had to remove the oil filter
first. I should have done this before removing the lower bolt. The starter
then slides towards the front of the car and then down past the engine where
the oil filter was. Its heavy and you have to be careful not to drop it on
your face.
- Removal took me just over 2.5 hours.
Inspection and Repair
8. I found the main spring had broken such that it had become a series of
rings on the shaft. It looked like fatigue. Some bits were missing.
9. The pinion restraining spring had also broken and only one small piece
was left.
10. I guess the ringing sounds I had heard had been caused by the broken
pieces of main spring rotating on the shaft and/or the pinion bouncing
against the flywheel.
11. Found a used main spring on a shelf in my mechanics workshop and he
supplied a new restraining spring on the Monday via one of his sources.
(Seems used bits are hard to come by because they are grabbed up by
prospective auto to manual converters.)
12. The drive came apart easily with the nut on the end a left hand thread.
Cleaned all parts but mine weren’t particularly dirty. Damage to the teeth
on the starter drive gear were superficial only.
13. Fitted the new parts. The restraining spring fits over a sleeve and
against a raised step on the inner end. The outer end fits into a collar.
This is followed by the pinion/gear, a washer, the main spring, the nut and
a split pin.
14. Removed the cover band, checked and cleaned the starter brushes and
these were ok.
15. Managed to get a couple of fingers into the inspection port at the
bottom of the bell housing and found two pieces of main spring.
16. The teeth on the ring gear looked ok.
Installation
17. Installation was the reverse of removal. The hard part was getting the
nuts and washers back on the bolts and tightening these within the limited
space. It took me over an hour for these. It would be better to have a
fixed rather than ratchet handle on the socket as I did to give more room
and to lead the nuts onto the bolts better.
18. Installation took me about 3 hours.
19. The car fired up with only a bare push of the button.
I hope this maybe of help to all prospective in-situ starter mechanics.
Thanks to those who offered advice and particularly to Dave Symington who
was most prompt and detailed. Hope it stops snowing there soon Dave.
Regards
Mike Gallagher
1966 mk2 3.4 (back on the road again)
Bull Creek WA
Stefan,
I was trying to take a shortcut and avoid dismantling any of the interior.
Not sure it worked though.
It did occur to me that the ring might be better on the rear side. Glad I
didn’t follow through on that one!
Regards
Mike Gallagher
1966 mk2 3.4
Bull Creek WA-----Original Message-----
From: owner-saloons@jag-lovers.org
[mailto:owner-saloons@jag-lovers.org]On Behalf Of Stefan Kjellberg
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2000 8:50 AM
To: saloons@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [Saloon-lovers] Starter Problems - The Outcome
Mike,
The top bolt should be accessible from inside the car. If you remove the
centre console, there is a plate covering a hole underneath the radio. A
9/16 socket on a long extension gets to the bolt. The bottom one is quite
accessible from underneath, also with a long extension.
The first time I removed my starter, this ring holding the nuts together
was on the rear side, making the top bolt very hard to access. It took me
4 hours to get it out. That included taking the carbies out too for
access.
Stefan
'63 MK2, gearbox & starter removed
'74 MGB GT