Series II Air Con - Aaaaaghhhh!

Hi To all.
Jezebel, my series II XJ Coupe, has a non-functioning air con system. How unusual I hear some say…
Fans do not operate in any mode although I can rig them to 12v and they work fine.
Nothing in the control circuit operates either heat or cold. Although I can feel the inlet and outlet pipes to the heater core are hot after running the engine. There is no movement from the servo at all in any mode.
Demist flaps open when set to demist. Close once again when engine is stopped. Vacuum circuit is working.
Have taken out the mode control switches, checked operation of micro switches and confirmed all are working and switching to the correct polarity depending on the mode selected.
Have replaced the Amplifier; Smaller Australian made version. No difference
Have replaced the switch relay package. No improvement.
Checked the 50A fuse and found it was a dud even though it looked OK. Replaced. No difference.
At least this then gave me 12v @ terminal 21a on control switch. But this as far as I can get.
Have checked the 2 inline fuses and both OK.
Have replaced 15A fuse (#12) for clutch relay. This blows any time I select AUTO on mode selector.
The air con compressor clutch does not engage either. Suspect this is the cause of the 15A fuse blowing but need to trace the cause. Most likely the clutch has seized or there is a short in the circuit.

Any ideas on what to look for from here?
Also, how do you check to see if the servo motor is actually operating. Have been told not to put 12v directly on this as it may break things.

Many thanks for your anticipated support and hopeful retention of my sanity!
Jezabel.

Hello
I’m no expert on the AC system but it is always good to know the principles before you troubleshoot, it helped me. I don´t know if you’ve seen a document that is a simply describes of the system. If you search via Google on “AC + Schematics-mk2 + Delanair” or you can find the document through the link:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=562A51A1E467595C&id=562A51A1E467595C!129&parId=562A51A1E467595C!128&o=OneUp
It describes the series III but if I’m not wrong it is the same system in series II (Delanair II). There is another document “Delanair Mark II Automatic Climate Control.pdf”. Couldn’t find it when I did a quick search, but I can e-mail it if you want. As a more specific answer, you can test the servo by disconnecting the round connection to amplifier and connect + and - to pin 1 (purple) and 2 (red) on the portion that goes toward the servo. Be careful not to short against the other pins. By switching the + and - between pin 1 and 2, the servo change direction.

Janne

Janne, thanks for the advice. Especially on the servo motor test.

I had another version of the “AC+ Schematic-Mk2 + Delanair” document but it did not seem to have page 3, which is a much clearer version of the actual wiring schematics from the manual. I’ll follow this and see where it leads.

Thanks again Janne. I’ll update with any breakthroughs.

Jez.

**
The lack of fan action is an obvious symptom to pursue, Jezabel - it is so detectable, and without fan action other faults masked to some extent.

Assuming, probably rightly, that you have the Delanair II, as Jan also indicates - it is listed for the Series II and III. The fans are activated by two different pathways; manual in ‘Lo’, ‘HI’ and ‘Def’, and via the servo in ‘Auto’ - that both fail to operate fans is ‘unusual’. Common to both pathways is the relay bank, the resistor unit and the temperature switch - vacuum is not involved in fan control…

The temp switch will ‘kill’ the fan actions while cabin heating, until the coolant temp reaches 40C - though it is principally overridden in ‘Def’, it must be checked. Locate the switch, clamped to the inlet heater core inlet water hose - bypass switch by connecting the two wires together - bypassing the water temp switch.

If nothing changes; locate the resistor unit - it can been seen above the water temp switch. The green/slate wire connects to the fans (and high speed relay); check power with a test lamp - it should be fully lit in ‘HI’ and ‘Def’, and the fans should of course then be running. If not, and applying 12V to the green/slate does not activate the fans - there is a connection problem to be pursued…

The relay bank connects to the resistor unit to vary fan speeds; the relays being operated by the function switch and the servo. The relay outputs can easily be checked at the resistor unit - for further diagnoses…if necessary…

As you have changed the relay bank with no change; and excluding possible misconnections; disconnect brown/white from the relay bank and verify, with a test lamp (100W in this case), that there is power to it from the 50A fuse. If no/low power, recheck fuse, and fuse OK; remove fuse holder and inspect connections. Due to the high current; a bad connection may overheat - disconnecting wires and/or cause damage to the fuse holder. In either such case; there is no fan power in any switch position - remedy as required…

The point of these checks is to eliminate possible causes - to narrow the range of suspects. Finding the actual fault is a bonus…:slight_smile:

Of the other faults; verifying servo action is relevant - purple and red are the feeds to the servo, and as Jan indicates polarity reversal reverses the servo action. Power application should be brief to avoid possible servo excess - if no reaction initially, instantly change polarity. A low voltage battery could be used, if available - the whole point of the test is to verify if the servo is operational. I very seldom fails, but it has happened - but such a failure will not affect ‘manual’ fan control…

With lack of servo reaction, the first step is indeed to change the AC amplifier - it is the most common source of servo response failure. The reason for changing the AC amp is that it is easy - and without servo function; further tests are pointless. That the change had no effect may have 3 causes; new amp faulty, servo fault or an external problem. One external problem may be a blown 3A inline fuse that protects the amplifier - it’s behind the left hand side casing. Two connections alternatives were used; one with black wires - a ‘ground’ fuse…

…or ‘coloured’ wires, denoting a ‘power’ fuse - and there is some doubt as to different AC amplifiers being compatible with its ‘opposite’ alternative. There was a list exchange on this - which may be remembered by someone. Or it may be in the Archives. Ask list members specifically about this? Point being that the ‘later’ (‘Australian’) amp may not be compatible with the presumably early version used for the Series II…?

The compressor clutch engages whenever the function switch is out of ‘off’ - ie, it should engage when the switch is in ‘Lo’. You don’t specifically say if the fuse blows in this position, or if it blows only in ‘Auto’ - which may be pertinent.

The #12, 15A, is not specifically for the compressor clutch - it is the general fuse for the AC amplifier, which also controls the clutch. That the fuse blows when the AC is turned on (out of ‘off’) may be irrelevant for the compressor itself - to confirm; disconnect power wire at the compressor (usually green). If the fuse still blows, the compressor is ‘innocent’ - however; test the compressor clutch function (with the power wire disconnected) by applying 12V at the connection point. This can be done without the engine running; as power is applied there is a distinct ‘click’ as the clutch engages/disengages…

You are perfectly sane; faultfinding the AC set-up is very complicated - and can test the sanity and patience of anybody, testing is a painstaking process…:slight_smile:

Salient points; the ‘manual’ fan functions are unaffected by the state of the AC amp and servo - and while vacuum is vital to proper AC function; it cannot interfere with fans or the electric components of the AC system…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Jezzabel,

Frank has provided a wonderfully detailed plan of attack as usual. Well done Frank! I wish i had your ability to describe things so well. I add one thought. Mounted on that back of the servo unit is the feedback potentiometer, Essentially, the function is to provide a signal to the amp to know what position the servo is in thru the use of varied resistance. If the feedback pot fails, the amp will not function. The feedback pot fails in two ways. First it has simply dirty contacts and will not make connection, thus not providing “feedback” to the amp. The second failure mode, is wear from age. It is a wire wound pot which over time rubs thru and breaks connection. You will need a voltmeter to conduct the following tests… If you need additional assistance, I would be more than happy to help.

Regards,

Gary

I just finished rereading your post…if you have confirmed 12 volt on the heavy brown and white, but still do not have fans…I suggest checking that you trace and verify that you have a good ground on the black relay bank wure and the BU wure. If you do not have a good ground…the relays will never activate. In general, the servo fan micro switches are normally closed at all times. And the fans should run at low speed. Except when overridden by the cut out switch or the manual control. To increase fan speed the servo opens a speed circuit cutting the resistance , increasing speed. The more resistance cut…the fast the fans run. But keep in mind that in hearing mode, only low and med1 are ever actuated… Med2 and high are never used. Low thru high are only used in full code mode.

So in any servo position you should at least get a low fan speed. Since you can “hit wire” the fans…I assume that ground is good. I suspect your problem is in the relay bank, it’s grounding, or the temp cutout switch…

**
I should have emphasised the point about the blowing 15A ac fuse, Gary…

…while it is blown, there will be no fan action - there is no operating power to the relays. And there is no servo action - there is no power to the AC amp to drive the servo. Ie, if the fuse blows immediately the function switch is turned out of ‘off’, there will be no action of any kind - and the problem is then ‘if’ and ‘why’ the fuse blows instantly - or ‘when’…

Since there was no change when changing the AC amp, it may be a good idea to refit the old one - just to verify if the new amp itself somehow is causing the fuse to blow.

But as you imply, most faults have singular malfunctions - so a total fan and servo failure like this is highly unusual…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

1 Like

Frank, I obviously missed that about the fuse…thinking it was the fuse in the compressor, not the system fuse. While I am not familiar with the internal design of the bullet style amp…I think the diagnosis becomes more tedious. Jaguar liberally used diodes in thier electrics, any one of which if bad could blow a fuse…there are 5 in the amp, numerous in the servo, and if I remember correctly at least 1 burried in the middle of the AC wiring harness. I think it now is likely a system by system test…I could test him amp to verify it is working… Connecting a battery to the servo at its connector on the right footwell to red and purple should give a validate its motor operation. Based on my new understanding of the problem, I think I would concentrate on the servo first.

**
In some versions, there is indeed an in-line compressor (clutch) fuse, Gary - as extra protection…

…however, the ‘main’ AC fuse effectively protects all the electric controls of the AC - when it blows, it is effectively like turning the AC ‘off’. Any testing in this situation is of course ‘inconclusive’…:slight_smile:

The diodes fitted are basically there to prevent the current flow the ‘wrong’ way - in the wiring they allow the same wiring serving several functions. Which means that if a diode fail you have a malfunction - but it would be unusual to cause a 15A fuse to blow.

In this case; it’s essential to verify which component/circuit causes it to blow - which action causes it. You mentioned that the fuse blows when set to ‘auto’ - which is a clue, it’s just strange. The same circuits and components are powered in all switch positions out of ‘off’. The best initial procedure is disconnect components in turn; the compressor clutch, the servo and the AC amp itself, to possibly isolate the culprit…

The principal function of the fuses is to protect the wires - which are themselves dimensioned according to expected currents. While a failed component may cause a fuse to blow - the fuses are too slow to protect the components themselves. In some cases the wires may be chafed, causing shorts - this is sometimes very difficult to find, and other causes should first be eliminated…

Certainly, testing the servo, verifying that it is functioning should be done - unless it is otherwise shown bad. Point being that with a blown AC fuse there can be no servo function using the AC wiring…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe UK/NZ)
**

Frank/Gary, you guys are amazing.
The detail and knowledge you have provided will certainly make a difference.
Thank you so much. Really appreciate the input and sharing of knowledge.

There appears to be nothing coming through the relay switch block. I think there are likely multiple breaks or dead components. I am possibly the first to attempt to revive the system in many years. However as you say, it is a step by step process. The fans work if I apply 12v to the G/S - 2H terminal on Main relay. So they do work. just no feed via the switching.

FYI I purchased the car around 12 moths ago and the fans/AC/Heater have never worked. I did find the large 50A fuse had been removed from the fuse block (it had melted) and is now housed in an “in-line” fuse holder. Replacing this provided power but nothing else. no control. Servo buzzed into life once or twice but has not been heard of for some months. I am only chasing the A/C now as I have the entire car stripped down ready for panel work, painting and interior.

i will look at the items and directions you have provided and get back with results. As you say, it is a journey and it is invaluable information that I can hopefully pass onto other members once it is beaten.
alternatively I could well end up simply using the “natural” approach and wind the windows down in summer and up in winter. Carry a rag for the demister…

Thanks again guys !

**
You are the one doing the difficult work, Jezzabel - our task is the easy bit…:slight_smile:

Only one fault is necessary to create the symptoms described; a blown 15A AC fuse - there might be others buried in the works, including one that makes the fuse blow. As a blown fuse will disable both servo and fans; supervising the fuse is essential - no testing is relevant with the fuse blown…

Connect a test lamp between the fuse holder ‘out’ and ground - this will give a visual indication of an intact fuse; the lamp will be lit - you do not then need to check the fuse ‘manually’. Then find out when the fuse blows; if it blows as it is replaced - check the fuse holder. The problem may be the same as with the 50A fuse - and using in in-line fuse holder may be worth while considering…

If the fuse blows in any specific switch position; it may provide a clue - but all systems are powered up in any switch position. To eliminate some components; disconnect the compressor clutch wire and the servo and AC amp connectors. These components are then powerless to cause a fuse to blow. And if the fuse still blows…hm…it gets interesting - but further work on these components are still pointless at this stage…

The disconnected components have no influence on manual fan speed controls; with an intact fuse the fans should operate in ‘Lo’ and ‘Hi’ switch settings. However, if the fans still do not operate; locate the coolant temp switch - and connect the two wires together as previously described…

If the fans still do not operate, fuse still intact - there is something wrong with the relay bank connections or the relay bank. And if the fuse blows in any of the manual switch positions; the relay connections is highly suspect - though a more intricate cause may have to be pursued…

It’s very important that you clarify matters as described - individual components can then be targeted.

Again; nothing will work with a blown 15A fuse - so a supply if 15A fuses is required; there is no safe way of bypassing the fuse…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Frank, thank you for the post.,
As it turns out, I have been down to local auto shoppe and purchased a bunch of 15A fuse packets.
So with these in hand, I will follow the good advice received and hopefully come up with the magical failure point.

I only discovered the 15A fuse and it’s impact the other week and had not realised it controlled the fans. So this has been a bit of a revelation and impetus to solve the issue now that there is a logical track to follow. Every time I scour through the wiring diagrams there is always something else that simply pops out at me. Certainly keeps the head working.

Thanks again for the advice and feedback Frank.
I look forward to advising everyone of some positive breakthrough shortly.

Jez

**
You will solve it, Jez - by and by…:slight_smile:

A real nut to crack will be if there is a plain wire short that causes the fuse to blow - sometimes denoted by the fuse blowing in ‘off’. Or it may be in the wires between components - hopefully indicated by ‘when’ the switch blows…

My experience is that when the fault is found, it is easily remedied - and every says 'so obvious - why didn’t we think of that"…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

**
Additional to my previous post, Jez…

…do change back to the original AC amplifier before starting to test out as advised. Two reasons; the original ‘no servo’ reaction may be due to the blown fuse - and the amp may be functioning. Secondly, and as said before; I am not at all sure that the ‘Australian’ amp will function in the original SII set-up - the ‘new’ amp may cause bewildering symptoms…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Hi Frank,
Thanks for the feedback and thoughts.
Yes, you are soooo right . Hindsight is always 20/20.
I support your advice on returning the original AMPLIFIER as it might have been totally OK.

It will be resolved. Just a matter of time, patience and lots of time spent upside down in the footwell.

Jezz.

**
Affirmative, Jezz…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Folks, a happy ending to the Air Conditioning repair saga on Jezebel.
All functions are now back to where the factory meant them to be and fuses remain in tact.
I ended up taking the switch panel, servo unit and fan assemblies out and renewing all the vacuum lines to make sure of the circuitry. It was a mess but in the end became easier to understand the overall operation. good investment in time and knowledge of Jag SII wiring and air con operation.
Servo unit works a treat after I ditched the “new” locally made amplifier purchased from JAGDAIM spares in Melbourne. It is listed as working on Series II aircon but does not. As soon as I replaced it with the oiriginal amplifier, bingo, it all started to work. Just to be safe I purchased the original Australian made amplifier specifically for Series II setup and it is now working without fault. All flaps and vacuum actuators work as do the 3 fan speeds.
There were a lot of little issues that I think contributed to the original issues. The main one being Fuse #12 which is a trap[ for the newbies to Jag circuitry and it’s link to the fan operation.

Many thanks for all the responses and assistance from the forum. Really appreciate the support and depth of technical knowledge from the members.
Special thanks to Janne, Frank & Gary

Regards,
Jezebel.

**
Good work in a difficult area, Jezebel!

The difference between the early and later amplifier is, I ‘think’, a matter of one wire connection difference - but the JAGDAM one might just be defective…?

Frank
Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Good work, and like Frank says not a straightforward area. AC is the particular area that I have put the most time and money on the whole car. The theory is simple until you look under the dashboard. :slight_smile:

Janne

Hi Janne
Yes it is challenge but if you take your time and apply a little logic to how it all works, you generally get there in the end.
Mind you at the expense of some sanity :weary:.
The only thing I have not been able to do is remove the blower units to resolve the sticky vacuum operation.
The upper flaps protruding into the upper fresh air plenum on both preventing removal. Have applied direct vacuum to both but to no avail.
I accept not having a fresh air intake for some of the operation.
Any ideas on how to extricate these blowers without breaking the upper flap and linkage greatly appreciated.

Best Regards
Jezebel