E10 experiences vary so widely that I am convinced that climate and storage conditions play a very big factor.
Up here in the wet PNW E10 has been standard issues for decades. I’ve had no problems, personally. But my cars don’t sit unused for 6-10-15 months a time, either. And they’re not 1940s-50s vintage cars.
OTOH, at the beginning of this summer I discovered I had left the little cap off a 5 gallon jug of E10 gas all winter long, stored outside on the back porch. Didn’t look or smell funny; my old lawnmower didn’t object at all.
Condensation in tanks has been an issue as long as there have been gasoline tanks, thus the age-old advice to store your car/truck/tractor/whatever with a full tank.
The real issue with gas tanks, E10, and condensation comes with the occurrence of phase separation. Much has been written about this. It won’t necessary occur, but it can occur.
I’ve also read (but never confirmed) that, technically, it isn’t the ethanol that attacks fuel system parts on older cars. It’s the higher concentrations of tuolene and zylene found in E10 that does it. And, if you have a cruddy tank, these solvent-like chemicals loosen the crud. I dunno; just something I read. I’m not asserting facts.
There’s an awful lot of ‘stuff’ floating around about E10. On top of that, it’s a political issue as well. That really complicates the discussions
Thanks for pointing that other components are also different Doug.
Perhaps a better blame can be laid on “the overall formulation of modern ethanol containing fuels” rather than the ethanol by itself being incompatible with the fittings in the tank/engine. This formulation will vary from refinery to refinery, so UK based problems may in general be different from US based problems.
I’ve lived in Illinois and Wisconsin most of my life, certainly not “dry” climates. I have never stored my old cars with full tanks and never had a corrosion problem, rusty gas tanks. Like the other guy said, minimal amounts so I don’t end up with full tanks of gas gone bad. No, not climate controlled storage either. I’m thinking people who have had this problem probably got water mixed in with the gas when they bought it.
Ethanol is a scam, it only persists because it’s an area of agreement for both subsidized farmers and their lobbyists and wacko environmentalists that think they’re reducing greenhouse gases when in reality any gains are lost in the manufacturing process. On top of that, consumers are cheated with fuel that gets less MPG.
And here in the USA formulations vary by region and season, and different suppliers use different ‘additive packages’ to the base gasoline.
One thing I’ve wondered…
In my area when the E10 gas really does go bad, it takes on a strong aroma of turpentine. Does anyone else notice that? I’ve wondered if that’s unique to the ‘blend’ being sold in my area.
Can’t help ya: I never let any gasoline-fueled vehicle sit long enough to let it go bad.
I regularly let Margaret sit idle for 2-4 months, but I always use Sta-Bil in it, and my lawnmower (which (does sit idle for 6-7 months), which keeps the carbs free of gunk. The lawnmower always fires up in the spring.
Tweety would sit idle for the winter, in the garage, or out in a loafing shed: I always Sta-Biled it, plus topped off the tank, with our local E10 blend. Always ran fine, in the spring, and fuel smelled normal.
I agree. If we never had E10 to begin with, or ever again, it would cause me no sadness
However, in car hobby circles E10 has become a real whipping post. I’m convinced that a lot of people in the hobby reflexively blame E10 for any fuel system problem.
Wayyyyy back in the 70s, when I was a newbie car nut, I was replacing dead fuel pumps, dealing with dried-out-and-shrunken carb gaskets, replaced rotten fuel hoses, etc. Back then (as now) fuel system “driers” were commonly sold. Fuel filters clogged and tanks rusted, just as they do now. Gasoline went stale and turned gooey. Etc. You get the idea. All of this long before E10 was being sold.
I’m am 100% sure that E10 can and does cause problems in some cases. I also think that a lot of people blame E10 needlessly.
I’m sure that’s true. Fortunately for me we’ve got a choice here in WI., some gas stations, enough to make it convenient, sell no ethanol premium. I use this for all my stored cars and landscaping equipment. There does seem to be consensus that alcohol is really bad for small engines, not so sure that’s true either. I play it safe an opt for alcohol free whenever I can. I do run ethanol in my daily drivers without issue, it’s cheaper than premium. There also seems to be agreement that alcohol free gas has a longer storage life, I use Sta-bil in everything that gets the premium, I just add it in every time I buy it, 5 gallons at a time. Does Sta-bil really work, I have no idea.
I can tell if an owner uses the Wynn’s Dry Fuel additive which we recommend. They’re all using pretty much the same fuel, but you can tell by how the surfaces which come into contact to the fuel look, and smell (and by plugged filters).
Me as well since I have not experienced any issues with my 5 older cars from a 1951 MGTD to a 1969 Austin America either in California or now in Eugene Oregon.
This car storage and rusting gas tanks deserves more clarification from me. Before when I said not climate controlled storage, I should have said, but it is climate stabilized storage. By that I mean, the building I have, a fully insulated and sealed metal pole building, is insulated and sealed well enough to handle temperature spikes that do cause excessive condensation if not guarded against. Condensation so bad that chassis and engine blocks are literally dripping. So it wouldn’t be much of a surprise if your gas tank is rusting sitting in this humidity bath that can last for days in cold climates, particularly headed into spring.
I often make the mistake of assuming we’re all on the same page with things like this, does anyone here allow their collector car to get in this dripping wet state while stored? The gas tank would not be on the top of my concern list, the entire car rusting away would. I do suppose a rusted gas tank would be one of the first noticed effects of such storage. I found a fix for this if interested.
The scientific reason for adding ethanol to gasoline is to reduce carbon monoxide emission. Oxygenates, which add oxygen in the fuel, can reduce carbon monoxide emission. California does not require ethanol in gasoline but the market has found ethanol the current favorite oxygenate. California fuels have been about 10% ethanol for about 10 years and have been using ethanol or other oxygenates for decades. See https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/faq.htm for information from California Air Resources Board.
Since shortly after this thread started, I put several samples of copper and brass into clear glass jars with California E10 gasoline. One jar is open to atmosphere through a 1/2 inch hole at cap, one jar is sealed, one jar has no copper or brass. And one sealed jar is pure ethanol with copper and brass samples. Let me know if you want any other combinations tried. I’ll post photos as the recipes proceed.
My first pole building was formerly farm machinery storage, not sealed certainly not insulated. When sudden warm ups occurred things got dripping wet, yes the building did at least have a cement slab. I did seal off most of the openings to trap the cold IN and put in place several box fans to circulate the air. The moisture moved from the cars and onto the floor. When temps turned back to normal averages, it all dried out. Knowing when warm fronts were coming and turning the fans on ahead of time, the cars would stay bone dry, actual puddles would form on the floor instead. The idea is to keep the cold in, ventilation only lets the warm air in and thus causes the condensation. Kind of like taking a cold bottle of pop out of the fridge. It worked for sixteen years.
