When I bought my 1970 series 2 FHC I noticed that the starter motor barely seemed to be able to turn the engine over. I thought it was just a flat battery since the car had been sitting on the dealer’s lot for a bit. So when I got the car home I hooked up my trickle charger and it took about 24 hours before the charger indicated that the battery was charged. But the starter motor was still sluggish, barely turning the engine over, suggesting that the battery was still way down on charge. The good thing is that the engine starts immediately the engine starts to turn over which amazes me. I took the battery to O’Reilly’s and they said it was OK. So I checked the connections to the battery and starter motor and they seem OK but I couldn’t find the earth strap that earths the engine to the frame. By looking through this forum I discovered that there should be a earth strap between the a bolt on the gearbox and the torsion bar reaction plate but not on my car. I fitted at earth strap from the connection on the body which the earth strap from the battery connections to and to a bolt on the engine sump. But this made no difference. Hence I’m thinking the either the battery is bad or the starter motor is bad. Getting the start motor out looks a major task ( what isn’t on a E type!) so I am going to swap the battery from my TriumphTR50, which is brand new, and see if that works. If not it must be the starter motor unless the issue is in the ignition switch or the starter relay. Where is the starter relay?
The starter relay on my 69 is under the dash on the far right, but on my 71 it is on the firewall, right hand side:
Good to eliminate all the other possibilities but in the end, my money is on the starter needing service.
They are imminently serviceable and after all, the one you have has performed for more than 50 years so rebuilding the original is what I favor.
It might be worth disconnecting the ignition coil and cranking the engine to see if the starter is still sluggish. If your static timing advance is on the high side, it will result in the starter having to work harder. So. if you find the engine spins reasonably fast with the coil disconnected, the starter may not be the problem. Easy test to do, and might save you a lot of work.
That’s where I’d be starting as long as that battery has a similar CCA rating to your E Type one.
Stuart, just in case you have one of those green topped battery isolators at the battery positive terminal I would suggest that you remove it and throw it as far as you can. My PO fitted one to my car and it had me guessing for a while. I removed it and the engine turned over much faster. Paul.
uh oh. I was planning on one of those. Is there a good brand?
Rebuilding my starter was quoted as $200. So I bought a replacement from O reilly. for 95$. Added in 2 or 3 cans of brake clean to get over $100 and used a 25$ off coupon.
Haven’t tried it yet.
The starter out is an sob. Hard to get too and weights a ton. And I did that when I was lots younger.
I went with the one everybody sells, but stripped off all the ‘gold’ paint and use a battery terminal brush on the connections (also painted the knob black):
Usually i just pull the ground cable off but I needed a low amp bypass due to the 12V clock and stereo.
I use this one. But if you want to keep power to your clock it is not good for you.
I think all the S2 cars have the access port under the right side carpeting. This allows you to get the nasty top bolt from inside the car, makes the job much easier. If you pull up the passenger carpet, it’s roughly where the passenger’s left toe would be. There’s a metal plate secured by a sheet metal screw. See the photo in this article:
You can keep power to the clock by putting a fused connection in parallel with the isolator. Use a low amperage fuse like 1amp. If anyone tries to start the car, it’ll blow instantly, so the isolator still acts as an anti-theft deterrent as it did before.
Obviously, you remove the fuse when servicing the car electrics.
kind regards
Marek
Actually, I used a resettable fuse ('cause I’m the forgetful type):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JM11PX2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Geo,
100amps starter motor current through a little polyfuse like that will reset it… permanently! Those things are designed for recovery from “moderate” overloads, not an outright thermonuclear level of abuse.
kind regards
Marek
So far trying to start with just that resettable fuse in place has not been a problem (I said I was forgetful). The starter just clicks.
I suspect the only draw it is seeing is the solenoid, not the full draw of the starter.
OK - I’m surprised and impressed. I’d have expected something nasty like smoke escaping.
The starter relay is a 12RA , has coil resistance of 12ohms and pulls ~1amp. Clearly adding the starter solenoid tips it over the edge before it connects up.
kind regards
Marek
I attached my boost starter to the battery to give it a boost but the starter motor was still very sluggish. It just sounds like the battery is flat but it can’t be. Originally I thought the battery was flat because the battery gauge always shows a heavy charging rate:-
A previous owner had replaced the original Lucas Alternator with one that has a built in control and I can’t work out just what he did with the wiring. For instance the ignition warning light does not come on , so I conclude that as the battery seems to be OK the battery gauge is not wired up correctly. The battery never gets hot which I think it would if it was being charged all the time.
So I am left with the task of getting the starter motor out which, from what I’ve read on the internet seems really difficult. Anyway I wondered what you guys think about which starter motor to buy. Moss have two high torque motors for about $200 and a refurbished original one for $400 including $150 core charge so that makes it $250. SNG Barratt want about $300 for a high torque and $370 for an original one plus you have to give them your old one. O’Reilly’s has a refurbished original motor for $109 plus $40 core which sounds really cheap by comparision. But I certainly don’t want have to do this job twice if the one I buy turns out to be no good.
This is what I can see from under the car:-
It looks as though the complete oil filter housing has to come off to withdraw the starter motor.
When you say the ignition warning light doesn’t come on - does that mean it never comes on, even if you turn the key to accessory position without starting it?
If it doesn’t come on at all, ever, then there’s a good chance the previous owner who did the alternator conversion didn’t bother hooking it up (or hooked it incorrectly, or the bulb is burned out.)
If you at all suspect the alternator, you should do the usual checks - voltage between the batter y posts, etc. See if that matches up with what your voltmeter is showing.
Dave
Yes it never comes on. The 3AW replay is in position but it seems that there is no feed from the alternator. I removed the 3AW and it does work as intended. It looks like the previous owner fed a wire from the alternator ignition warning light terminal to the dash and somehow disabled the 3AW but I cannot locate this wire. Obviously I need to investigate more . It’s not the bulb I checked this
Your picture shows a healthy alternator but says nothing about the battery or whether it is being charged. A voltmeter just shows volts, but doesn’t tell us whether the battery is charging. A lead-acid battery will typically be 12.6-12.8volts (theoretical maximum of 13.26v) and alternators are set to produce 14-14.4volts. This means you are looking at a running car engine and full good alternator voltage. This should be charging the battery but you can’t tell what current is flowing where from a voltmeter.
If the starter can’t start the car, then typically one looks at the resistance of the path from battery positive to the big starter positive and then also from battery negative to earth point on engine block next to starter motor. Alternatively, you crank for a SHORT time and measure the voltage between those points. If the voltage drop is greater than ~0.2v (I think - look it up) on either, then fix that. If voltage drop is smaller than that, then you need to look in the starter itself for problems. Basically, if you’ve lost your volts on part of the circuit loop that isn’t the starter, then what is left for the starter isn’t enough for it to turn. If there is no loss in the wiring and the connectors, then sadly, you have to look at the only other part - the starter itself.
The ignition switch and starter relay is only going to affect whether the starter gets to work or not - it isn’t really affecting the bit that pulls the big current that turns the engine over which is where your problem manifests.
kind regards
Marek
The 3AW is designed to work on the voltage feed from just one part of the alternator, so is a poor guide to overall alternator function. Mike Frank’s coolcatcorp.com website explains this, so look it up there. As Dave said, it sounds as though the dash light is disconnected from its source. There is plenty on how to wire a modern alternator up or troubleshoot the 3AW on the coolcatcorp.com website.
It will be unrelated to your starting problem.
kind regards
Marek
Marek, Thanks for the input but getting a wire unto the positive starter motor feed terminal is next to impossible.