But it is just your belief Ed, how do you explain the smooth wheel
centers? Surely the MWS original drawings carry some weight.
The wheels on 36112 look painted, who knows ! the owner might
be thankfull to be informed the wheels are post-war!
There are other examples of SS cars with this type wheel.
Peter B
FWIW, here’s a photo of one of the wheels on 46124. While it’s no guarantee of originality, these are the wheels that were on the car when I acquired it in 1983.
Ron
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Wheels are things that wear and have parts replaced
Most of my wheels have been respoked. And later we found the wheel works here was respoking them in the post war pattern… And decades ago it was not something people were concerned with , or even realised. Like wise some of my wheels have had new rims from issues such as corrosion in the edge or cracking around the spoke holes, apart from the annoying feature of most not being perfectly round.
And certainly many wheels have had new centres, mainly from worn splines [ to the extent I have known people needing to cut them in half to remove them] but also from spoke holes wearing over size and the tapers collapsing .
The inner tapers spread and this manifests itself in the wheels resting against the brake drum and showing as a visible mark on the paint . The outer taper crushes inwards and results in the knock on retaining the wheel by resting on the outer spokes. And shows as ridges on the inside edge of the knock on.
So I tend to be sceptical on photos taken many years after the cars were new.
I would point out that the 1940 car has the early spoke pattern taken in photos of the car when reasonably new
The car was delivered in 1940 but stored because of petrol restrictions, till after the war , So the 1956 photo was taken when it was on the road for about 10 years and hardly likely to have had the wheels replaced and certainly not by older wheels. The wheels still have the early pattern.
Eureka!!!
I have at last got it.
I could always see the difference in SS-Jaguar spoke pattern versus post-war Mark IV pattern, but couldn’t quantify easily what the difference was that I was seeing, just one simpler the other more busy looking.
Apologies to those more-on-the-ball re matters SS-Jaguar and wheels in particular.
So we are talking about the OUTER Row of spokes, all the long ones that start from the outer-edge of the hub, and not the shorter-spokes from the inner-flange of the hub.
So the OUTER (Long) Spokes only cross over any other OUTER (Long) Spoke once with a pre-war SS Jaguar original wheel, and for up to at least 1940MY cars.
For post-war Mark IV wheels, and new Dunlop replacement wheels made post-war, the OUTER (Long) Spokes cross other OUTER (Long) spokes two times, thus in effect look to be a much ‘busier’ spoke pattern, albeit I dare say maybe a little stronger.
The MWS drawings - has anyone actually seen them and if so are they DUNLOP original drawings or MWS’s own. But if they are DUNLOP originals dated post-war 1940s/50s/60s, then the usual British Automotive Industry practice would of course show only the latest version as of the date of the drawing, and in this case the post-war spoke-pattern. If per chance they were original/first issue of the DUNLOP drawings dated in the 1930s, then you would take more notice.
If MWS produced their own drawings - and indeed MWS is relative modern in the scheme of DUNLOP reproduction wheels, then you would expect them to have drawn the last Dunlop made version Mark IV spoke pattern.
I guess the best way to pursue this anymore is to look for pre-war photos of SS Jaguar - the magazine road-tests and SS sales brochures, but restored wheels are not reliable proof one-way or the other.
Nice photo:
You have got it Roger, but what you have not got is that pre-war wheels
have what is known as a smooth center,whereas post-war wheels have a stamping indent feature, look at a XK w/wheel center…
When a wheel needs a rebuild, due to all the reasons stated by
Ed, surely it would be assembled with ,the then available, post-war center, the center being the prime item for replacement due to spline wear.
The early 30s Dunlop drawings no doubt show single overlap lacing.
Brochure photos in the period show single overlap, beyond dispute!!
Post-war Dunlop drawings will possibly show the revised center, but,
it is possible that there are Dunlop drawings that exist, dated circa
1938/9, showing double overlap lacing.
Conclusive evidence will enlighten.
Peter B.
The smooth wheel centres are available. I have bought some myself in the past So all of … Rims dimpled and drilled, Both types of wheel centre and spoke s of varying quality are all available for assembly in varying combinations.
The wheel centres with the indent are actually sold as 60 spoke XK 150 centres.
The quality of UK replacement wheels can be iffy . I visited a company very near Heathrow years ago who were the actual manufacturers of wheel centres and wheels. Complete with large machines stamping out the centres.
I bought a couple of new wheels one for my self and one for a friend { both for Mk IVs]
Shortly after Putting mine on it broke 9 spokes, so iI had to have all the rear row replaced. My friend fared worse. At one time it broke so many spokes that his car had to be taken home on a Tilt Tray.
For photographic evidence I’ve looked at also Allan Crouch’s book "SS & Jaguar Car"page 17 a factory photo of a 1940 SS saloon new cleary showing the early spoke pattern. And clearly a 1940 model as it has SS knock ons but narrow chrome strips and post war P 100s.
The picture of Appleyard; s Alpine winning SS100 taken in 1946 . also shows the early spoke pattern . THis being effectively the last SS100 This pic in Skilleter’s "Jaguar , The Sporting Heritage"Page 29.
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Hi very good afternoon , ken jenkings would be your man to ask