Subject: Re: [E-Type] Health Insurance Issues

E-Type
1

I am glad everything is going so well for you.
I think there are economic problems the US needs to deal with over time.
Walmart, as of two years ago is the single largest employer in Colorado. Colorado had a large increase in numbers of jobs, yet a decrease in average salary, a natural consequence of moving manufacturing jobs off shore while continuing to shift to service jobs. Put bluntly, it will lower the standard of living in Colorado.
If you own a lot of Walmart stock or are heavily invested, it is pretty good-but that is a small percentage of working Americans. I have read that the average 401K
is ca $18K.
GM, as you may have read, has shifted and continues to shift manufacturing jobs to Canada because they can save $6000 per employee on health insurance.
I think we do have some issues as a nation we need to be aware of.
When the avg family of 4 making $40K a year gross is expected to pay $12000 for health insurance, there is something seriously wrong.

Best, Mike Moore

— taz4is@charter.net wrote:From: Brian Ternamian taz4is@charter.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Subject: Re: [E-Type] Health Insurance Issues
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:38:11 -0500

“The real problem is the continuing reduction of real wealth or value
producing industries in North America. So the remainder cannot
continue to support the massive health care industry without making
drastic cuts to what they are prepared or able to pay.”

What heresy! have you not heard that this country is doing well? Jobs
are being filled, money is flowing and the economy is as strong as
ever! Why, it’s almost “milk and honey”! We are in a war and everyone
knows that war is good for the economy… always has been.
Oh, you say - but, the jobs are McJobs suitable really only for those
with no or little skills - and you have mighty skills and much
education and experience. Well take it or leave it, I heard someone say.
Oh, you say - you are moribund of spirit and perhaps a bit blue.
Well, buck up and harken to the clarion sound for everything really,
really is well I tell you, just as I am told by those who want to
sell me their beautiful “bill of goodies”.
Oh, you say - we don’t make anything anymore and that leaves a
fulfillment hole in your soul and you are feeling a bit useless?
Psah, it’s all about money, not fulfillment… that’s what I see…
mmmm, going to be hard to come by though as so very much of it has
inexplicably gathered in the hands of so very few.
Oh, you say - you don’t feel, personally, anything of what they are
saying and everyone else you know feels the same way? Obviously you,
and they, need another drink of this lovely Kool-Aid I have here. I
wonder why the last batch didn’t do the trick? Oh well no matter…
there’s plenty more where that came from.
If you really feel ill, just go to… uh… well I’d like to tell you
where to go, but I really shouldn’t. No matter if you have children
they’ll take care of everything - they have no choice.

Excuse me, I need to take a Tums or something, Brian

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

2

In reply to a message from sent Fri 10 Aug 2007:

Another Canadian viewpoint. First, my province has
government car insurance. Best thing the government ever
did. Every insurance agent is also a DMV agent. There used
to be three DMV bureaus in southern Vancouver Island, and a
three hour wait to get a license plate. Now there are 200
bureaus, and you get your tags and insurance in ten
minutes. Want to buy a car? You fill out a transfer form,
you and the PO sign it, you take the form and the PO’s
registration to your local agent, pay the fee, it goes into
the computer, and ten minutes later you walk out with your
new plates and registration, and insurance. Cheap
insurance. If you like the number on the plates from your
previous car, they can be transferred to the new car. No
extra time. Or you car turn them in for a refund.

The medical system? Not bad, but not perfect. The good?
Broken leg? Fixed immediately, no charge for plaster cast.
Small charge for fibreglass. Supply your own Aircast. (And
if you ever break a leg, get an Aircast. Trust me.) Heart
attack? Best care in the world, free. Cancer? Ditto. (As
opposed to my brother in law, who started off well to do in
Dallas when he was diagnosed, and left a poor widow when he
died six months later.) The bad? There are waiting lists,
except for real emergencies. Who you are still matters. If
you have a long-term work-related disability, that needs a
hip replacement, for instance, Workers’ Compensation cases
get priority, so you’re in the door ASAP. If you’re a cop,
or a politician, or a sports star, or a celebrity, or part
of the system, you get faster care. Not better, but faster.
There are chronic bed shortages, because old, frail people
take up acute care beds because there aren’t enough care
homes for those who can’t afford private care. (That’s one
place where there is a choice between private and public.)

I know I shouldn’t give advice to citizens of another
country, but I think the US will never solve the health
care issue federally. So the only answer is state by
state. If one state made a deal with the Feds to keep the
tax $$ that goes to the Federal health department, and
started a real public system, with restrictions on
elegibility (you have to have lived there X years to be
elegible) well, who knows?–
1969 4.2 Series 2 E Type
Brentwood Bay, B.C., Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

3

In reply to a message from IanCameron sent Fri 10 Aug 2007:

It is utilization and new technology that drives up the cost of
healthcare.

Insurance companies are the only entities in healthcare delivery
that are exempt from anti trust laws.

Prescription drugs eliminate even more expensive surgery and
therapy.

When do you suppose insurance companies will be forced to compete
against each other by charging less for their overhead rather than
containing costs by rationing service to patients?

$90. for a months supply of pills doesn’t sound so bad compared to
1300. for a dimple in a bumper.–
The original message included these comments:

There are chronic bed shortages, because old, frail people
take up acute care beds because there aren’t enough care

–
E type 66 S1
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

4

In reply to a message from Bill-B sent Sat 11 Aug 2007:

I would really like to see some non-biased analysis of where the
cost problems actually lie. Why does it cost $6 for an aspirin in
a hospital when you can get a years supply for that at KMart. How
can a Dr charge $50 for an office visit without insurance and
triple that price with. What is the actual cost of administering
all this, and don’t you really think that if there was a federal
program that cost would skyrocket?–
Ralph 1970 SII FHC
Pine Beach/NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

5

Yes, Bill. But the 1300 dollar bumper is a one time deal. A years worth of your 90 buck pills make up most of that.
LLoyd–
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: “Bill-B” etype66s1@cox.net

In reply to a message from IanCameron sent Fri 10 Aug 2007:

$90. for a months supply of pills doesn’t sound so bad compared to
1300. for a dimple in a bumper.

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

6

Ralph,
Here is an excellent article by Jane Bryant Quinn which includes some numbers which I found to be interesting.
Health Insurance Overhead was $120 billion dollars last year, $40 billion of which was profit. (What she doesn’t talk about is companies who take up to 1/3 of the premiums to subsidize a wholly owned subsidiary whoes sole purpose is to deny claims! This was the allegation in the racketeering charges against one company anyway).
Medicares overhead is 1.5% (probably due to being automated, common forms, not having multiple layers of management etc.) whereas private industy’s overhead is 13 to 16%-enough to buy a lot of Jaguars!
Best, Mike Moore

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19886686/site/newsweek/

— rknutsen@comcast.net wrote:From: “RGK” rknutsen@comcast.net
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [E-Type] Health Insurance Issues
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:02:11 +0200

In reply to a message from Bill-B sent Sat 11 Aug 2007:

I would really like to see some non-biased analysis of where the
cost problems actually lie. Why does it cost $6 for an aspirin in
a hospital when you can get a years supply for that at KMart. How
can a Dr charge $50 for an office visit without insurance and
triple that price with. What is the actual cost of administering
all this, and don’t you really think that if there was a federal
program that cost would skyrocket?

Ralph 1970 SII FHC
Pine Beach/NJ, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php