Teves iii braking system failure

I was under the impression the Teves system was used to save space in a crowded engine compartment. Buick may have used it in the Reatta.

Not as far as I’m aware, it was used to provide power brakes, which were used on a number of heavy, luxury cars.

Lack of fluid changes in Teves III pressure reducing valve causing rear brakes to be locked on.

See thread.
How many brake bleed fittings on rear brakes? - XJ-S - Jag-lovers Forums

Credit where it’s due, I filled mine a bit above the full line and I haven’t seen that warning light since, been a few weeks.

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Hey Jon. Was looking at the wiring diagram for the ABS (Teves IV) and noticed that page one typo’d the wheel sensors by using the front ones twice. I think i will make a pen and ink correction to my printed elec manual. But it is pretty obvious when one looks at the connections.
Hope all is well in H’ville

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Jim,
Not sure what diagram you are using. I’m using this one specifically for the 95/96 model years. It shows diiferent sensors. What diagram are you using?

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It was an attachment (pdf) to a reply you made to someone back on Jan 20th . Attaching here

Look at the inputs/outputs …all front wheels in the text under the heading circuit. On page 1.

I was “studying” about teves iii versus iv and happened to notice that. It’s no big deal to me but I thought it worth a note

Oh, ok, in the description. I was looking at the diagram itself. Good point.

Jon

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The page 2 diagram has great info. It was just “funny” to me to see the mistake on the page 1

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Or an sm Citroen… :face_with_spiral_eyes:

Actually, the Xm is quite a bit more complex than an Sm.
Imagine an Sm with the added complexity of electronic/hydraulic active suspension. The first car in the World with electronically controlled active suspension.

The Xantia Activa takes it one step further, not just active ride, but no roll suspension, which equates to 10 accumulators on an anti-sink version.

Hopefully, one can understand any Citroen enthusiasts interest and confidence in power hydraulic systems.

The rear brakes part of a Teves III system is the same operating principle as Citroen brakes…no master cylinder, just a graduated valve allowing pressurised fluid into the rear brake pipes.
Citroens duplicate that arrangement for the front brakes, whereas Teves III uses a conventional master cylinder.

Simple

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Citroen engineering was NOT done on this planet… :alien:

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A very informative discussion regarding Teves II brake system on a VW forum.
Corrosion appears to be the main issue, but these can be repaired and replacement parts are available.

Teves Mk2 ABS system. | Club GTI

Accumulator p/n 191-698-304A
Pressure switch p/n 191-927-821 SAAB 8994071 ones are identical
pressure reducing valve p/n 191-614-163A

Repairers

  1. BBA Reman in the UK say that if it is repairable, the charge will be £275 before VAT and postage. The website has one for sale for a G60 but the part number is for the smaller 19.05mm one.
  1. Power Brake Exchange Inc in USA do repairs and charge $975 and require a small portion upfront to pay for them to take the unit apart, clean it and do the micrometer work and documentation. This is applied to the building price. The Accumulator, pump motor and pressure switch must be working

https://www.powerbrakex-change.com/manufacturer.php?id=3456

  1. Technic Zentrum in Portugal do repairs and have been really professional in contact

https://techniczentrum.com/en/abs-p…4111a-191614111c-10212201039-10051190281.html

Pump motor P/n Jaguar XJS and Renault 21 both have ATE p/n 10.0511-9023.1
Ford Granada, Sierra and Scorpio all have have ATE p/n 10.0511-9032.1
later Ford ABS pump which has ATE motor p/n 10.0447-0773.3

It looks like a range Rover P38 ABS motor may be a suitable replacement.
ABS pump motor from a Range Rover P38 as it looked very similar to the one on the VW’s.

Wabco 4430010090

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Hi John,

I have checked the valve block connections against the technical information I have and the connections differ from your findings.
The only tests info I have is for Rhd, so may be different, but I think these resolve your issue with the incorrect resistances for the solenoid valves.

I have:
Ecu pin-1 and 11 = Valve block Pin-7 = Gnd.
Ecu Pin 18 = Main valve @2-5 Ohm
Ecu Pin-15, Rhf inlet valve = Pin-6 @5-7 Ohm
Ecu Pin-17, Rear inlet valve = Pin-3 @5-7 Ohm
Ecu Pin-35, Lhf inlet valve = Pin-1 @5-7 Ohm.
Ecu Pin-33, Rear outlet valve = Pin-4 @3-5 Ohm
Ecu Pin-34,Rhf outlet valve = Pin-5 @3-5 Ohm
Ecu Pin16, Lhf outlet valve = Pin-2 @3-5 Ohm.

It appears all the inlet valves are 5-7 Ohm, all outlets are 3-5 ohm.
Connecting the body/Pin7 to Gnd and manually applying +12v to the appropriate Pin should actuate the valve. If not the valve is seized, either by contaminated fluid, or rust.

Reference material.
ABS Diagnostic.pdf (682.2 KB) Tests 20 to 26.

For ABS blink codes, I can only suggest try again, but if the solenoids and sensors have the correct resistances and the wheel sensors are reporting properly, it’s possible the Ecu can’t detect any issue, though it would be worth checking the Ecu has all the correct power and Gnd inputs.

ABS Blink Lights.pdf (765.4 KB)

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Thanks Will!
I spoke to Harold at Power Brake X-change.
If I send them my compete system, they will assess and repair and test it for $1,500. If my actuator needs replacement, they will supply a good used one for $500. If the actuator is opened up or “worked on”, they will not take it.
I think $2k is well spent cash to get brakes on this car, FINALKY.
Your thoughts?
John

If it’s all guaranteed to work, then in my opinion it’s worth doing.