I bought two different K&N filters, one for my TR and one for my Land Rover. Both came with a plastic fitting that mounted to a hole in the base plate:
So, if I wanted to go this route with ITG, I’d need to purchase this filter and S1 intakes, along with new carb needles? There isn’t an option to use the intakes that I have on my S2? Here is a pic of the aftermarket carb setup that was on this early S2 when I acquired it.
Also, should the spacers and gaskets between each card and the manifold be wet?
Bob
If you have the air intake trumpets you could just remove the air intake box and the Mangoletsi ITG filter will fit easily using the two wing nuts to secure it. You will need to buy a set of UE needles. Expect 6% power gain.
If you have the air box you could buy the round ITG Maxogen air filter and fit it into the intake (may need a bit of sanding to get a snug fit). You will need a set of UE needles. Expect 6% power gain.
If you go ahead with the K&N filters you will need to fit UE needles. Expect a power loss due to air turbulence at the filter SU interface. To get around that you need these BCCP stub stacks:
You will need to engineer a breather solution or allow it to vent to the road as per the first 500 cars which used a 27" long flexible aluminium breather pipe venting to the road on the left side of the car. SNGB sell it.
E-Type upgrades = game of consequences!
If season 9 Episode 9 of WHEELER DEALERS is accurate it looks like MK 2’s were set up with a flexible pipe and a catch can for anything that might come out of it. If you have access to this episode and can go to about the 14 minute point and he shows cleaning the breather screen and replacing the pipe. Perhaps going to the MK2 set up would be a solution ? Just a thought.
https://www.motortrendondemand.com/detail/jag-mk-ii/36469/
David
68 E-type FHC
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I made up an oil catch can from a stainless steel tube. It has baffles inside as a trap and a drain at the bottom.
My idea was that any oil smoke from the breather filter would be sucked in by the carbs. Seems to work, until now there is no sign of oil dim in the engine compartment. (The engine is totally rebuilt and I run UE needles in the SU:s)
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I subscribe to the MotorTrend app and watch all the time. I’m a Wheeler Dealers junkie and watch very episode back to when then were in the UK with Edd China… I will go back a review this episode! Thanks.
After getting all this feedback (thank you all) I have canceled my order for the K&N filters. The plan was for looks but I wasn’t thinking there would be a power loss, which is an unacceptable outcome. I do however like the ITG/Manfoletsi solution and its attendant power increase potential. I just need to understand what I need to order beyond the ITG filter setup and carb needles, if anything.
The silver tube goes to a “hot rod” style catch can with a “K&N” style filter on the vent and a provision for some air filter modest vacuum. Under the filter are intake trumpets for smoothing air flow.
So the ITG setup doesn’t have a provision to “re-circulate” the breather output back into the intake?
I assume that is what is meant by “air filter modest vacuum.”
The XJ saloons had crankcase vent castings with two ports. One vented into a large diameter hose that went into the air filter housing. A second smaller port was connected to the intake manifold via a ~1/4 inch hose followed by a pair of small capillary tubes, which metered the flow. Similar to a PCV valve (which have been around since the early sixties, BTW.
If you are using the stock air trumpets (three silver tubes with an oval plate on the end) the Mangoletsi ITG filter will simply bolt on - two minutes work. The stock air trumpet assembly already has a breather outlet so you can use the stock hoses (×2) plus stock tube to connect. The car will run happily but maximum performance will only come about when you fit UE needles. Easy to do (details in service manual) and then you need to tune the SU’s (details in the service manual).
If you have never done it before it is an enjoyable half day’s work with little chance of harm to you or the car. Go for it!
Lots of people here to help as you go along.
Regards
David
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Robert (below) is correct. That would be ideal - but I didn’t do it. The can has another port which can be hooked up to modest vacuum, as you’d see inside the filter housing. NOT manifold vacuum. This is the concept used in circa 70’s US cars where a white filter (Chevies) which are like a scubbie pad, are connected with a somewhat large hose to a valve cover. This hose worked both ways, as excess crankcase pressure could vent to the air filter housing, or… the small vacuum in the housing would be sort of a weak PCV system. I actually think it was an OK system for that era.
The ITG backing plate would require a hole and rubber grommet to work in this manner. I didn’t want all the possible vapor to flood only one carb, and I didn’t want the mess of 3 holes, 3 tubes, etc.
I don’t have the stock system, so doing what David suggested didn’t apply to mine.
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How the hell much is your engine venting???
Nothing, but after a time the area around a vent of that type just gets a bit dirty. I’d like the dirt to be spread out - like neat dirt.
Let me make sure I have this correct. The stock air trumpets will connect to the ITG Mangoletsi filter system right out of the box…that’s great and more than 1/2 of my issue.
Next you stated that “the stock air trumpet assembly already has a breather outlet”. What I see when i look at the stock air filter box, is the breather pipe entering the trumpet itself and given the internal construction of the air filter box, that breather content must be “shared” among the three carbs intake of air…correct?
Given that I don’t know what the internals of the ITG filter unit are, is it possible that the one breather pipes output would be shared by the three carbs intake of air plus crankcase breather output? Do I really need to engineer a sharing of the breather pipes output to all three trumpets if they share in that filter unit all air and breather pipe output?
Hopefully, this all make sense. I’m trying not to tear open the air box and carbs until after the Jag show that I’m taking my two week old baby to this weekend. After the show, then I can jump into this project.
I’m more than willing to take a stab at installing the new UE needles, will new seats need to be installed too?
By the way, somewhat on and off topic - the spacers and seemingly the gaskets between each carb and the intake manifold are wet. Is this typical or should I plan on replacing the spacers (3) and the gaskets (6) when i undertake this whole project?
You might be across purposes here. The metering needle (UE etc) will work with the existing jet. Its the one protruding from the carb piston. The other needle - of the needle and seat variety - in the float bowl will remain as are.
The spacers serve two purposes, IIRC, that of a gasket and an isolator. Work out if it’s petrol or oil. If they’re wet with a little oil, you’re not Robinson Crusoe. If it’s petrol might be worthwhile ensuring that you don’t have petrol coming up over the bridge in the carb throat - have a look with the fuel pump running and the engine off, can be a needle and seat problem. Paul.
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Bob
Correct!
The Mangoletsi ITG filter looks like this on the inside:
All three SU’s will draw air from the common gallery. The breather inlet allows all three carbs to draw engine oil mist thanks to manifold depression
The air trumpet assembly will accept the Mangoletsi air filter directly with no modification.
So:
10 = air box assembly (which the Magnoletsi filter will directly replace - plug 'n play
11 = air trumpet assembly
16 = breather inlet adaptor
The Mangoletsi will push on to the air trumpet assembly and you secure it with two wing nuts (13). Job done!
As regards the carbs you simply (and one at a time) remove the damper (7), remove the (6) suction chamber (four screws), remove the spring (9), retrieve the piston (6) and undo the one screw holding the needle. Remove the UM needle (11) and replace with the UE needle. There is a line on the needle which you use to get it set at the correct depth in the piston before tightening the screw and reassembling:
Close up showing screw (5), piston (4) and needle (6) and you can see the shoulder on the needle which will need to be flush with the bottom of the piston.
Once you have done the first the other two will be a doddle. Remember to keep everything clean and free from dirt using a jar of petrol to rinse things.
Trust this helps - if not shout.
Regards
David
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My ITG filter is quite different than the purpose made, slick unit David has illustrated.
Nit-picking alert, as I’m enjoying a lie-in:
Manifold depression really operates downstream of the carbs and at anything less than WOT is controlled by the throttle plate. It still operates even with zero filtration on open carbs. What sucks on the engine breather is plenum depression or filter depression caused by the slight reduction in flow through the element itself. Without a filter or plenum (and/or restrictive canister tubes) there is zero plenum or filter depression but manifold depression remains.
At anything less than WOT the SU carbs self-adjust to maintain a constant depression/vacuum in their venturi, hence the name CD or CV carb and hence identical SU carb setup on the 3.8 and 4.2 engines.
The benefits of reduced plenum or filter depression are effectively non existent at anything below WOT, because only then does the hardware upstream of the throttle plate determine maximum throughput and minimum pumping losses IMO.
Which doesn’t mean all this go-faster stuff is tosh, but unless/until you floor it and let it rev out like on a dyno pull, you aren’t going to notice anything significantly ‘more’ with CD/CV carbs IMO.
Ok, end of lie-in. The empty FHC engine bay needs degreasing…
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As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. The pics of the back of ITG filter answer everything I needed thank you.
Also thank you for clearing up my confusion on the carb needle. This is all is beginning to look dangerously like a plan but I do need to get to the bottom of the wetness on the carb spacer/gaskets.