[v12-engine] Bolt-On EDIS Kit For V12s - Any Interest?


(Ray Livingston) #1

I am in the process of making bolt-on EDIS kits for 6-cylinder
E-Types, and would like to also do one for 12-cylinder cars
(likely not just E-types). Are there any V-12 owners in the
Santa Cruz, CA area who’d be willing to make their car
available for measuring and test-fitting? I did my own EDIS
conversion on my E-type about 5 years ago, and it has been one
of the best mods I’ve done to the car - instant starts, smooth
idle, and I haven’t touched the ignition system since the day
I installed it. Seems to me this would be the perfect
replacement for that pesky Opus system…–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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(eyedoc) #2

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sat 30 Jul 2011:

Ray
I am not in your area but will be interested in your progress on
this project. Not sure if you are aware of this but the final
version of the V12 used only in the 95-96 XJ12 cars used 2 coil
paks from the AJ16 motor mounted in the V where the distributer
was. The system (Nippon Denso) ran the ignition and the fuel but
was fairly complex although quite reliable. A simple systen to run
ignition alone that is not too expensive would be a nice option for
older cars.–
Mike Blair 94 6.0coupe+85 XJS, 96XJ12, 60MkIX, XJ13replica
powhatan/Va, United States
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(w1ngs) #3

In reply to a message from Ray Livingston sent Sat 30 Jul 2011:

What are you using to control the EDIS module in your
conversion? How did you map the timing as well?–
The original message included these comments:

I am in the process of making bolt-on EDIS kits for 6-cylinder
E-Types, and would like to also do one for 12-cylinder cars
(likely not just E-types). Are there any V-12 owners in the
Santa Cruz, CA area who’d be willing to make their car
available for measuring and test-fitting? I did my own EDIS
conversion on my E-type about 5 years ago, and it has been one
of the best mods I’ve done to the car - instant starts, smooth
idle, and I haven’t touched the ignition system since the day
I installed it. Seems to me this would be the perfect
replacement for that pesky Opus system…


Daniel - 1983 XJ6
Victoria BC, Canada
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(sduchene@mindspring.com) #4

In reply to a message from eyedoc sent Sun 31 Jul 2011:

The AJ16 motors used Coil-On-Plug ignition which is
completely different than the coil pack system used on the
1995-1996 XJ12 engines. The Denso systems used on those
motors had dual Ford 6-cylinder coil packs mounted down in
the valley of the V12. They actually had no jackshaft under
the valley cover. This is the jackshaft that drove the
distributor on the earlier cars.–
The original message included these comments:

I am not in your area but will be interested in your progress on
this project. Not sure if you are aware of this but the final
version of the V12 used only in the 95-96 XJ12 cars used 2 coil
paks from the AJ16 motor mounted in the V where the distributer
was. The system (Nippon Denso) ran the ignition and the fuel but
was fairly complex although quite reliable. A simple systen to run
ignition alone that is not too expensive would be a nice option for
older cars.


Steven A. DuChene - XJ6VDP XJ6C XJ12C XK120SE 3.8S E-Types
Phoenix, AZ Atlanta GA, NE Oh, United States
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(Nev.W) #5

In reply to a message from StevenD57 sent Sun 31 Jul 2011:

Ray I don’t know how Megajolt price compares to Megasquirt ($260
for MS2), but if you run Megasquirt on a V-12 EDIS is not
necessary. The ECU can drive the coils directly (through an
igniter) and the added complication of EDIS and the second crank
position sensor are eliminated.

I know some listers prefer to use EDIS - Philip Lochner for sure -
and there are some benefits in respect of gaining a limp home mode,
but for my money it’s an unecessary complication.–
Neville S1 XJ12, Megasquirt ECU
Christchurch, New Zealand
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(Kirbert - author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.) #6

StevenD57 wrote:

They actually had no jackshaft under
the valley cover. This is the jackshaft that drove the
distributor on the earlier cars.

They must have had something, because this shaft holds an idler for
the timing chain.

– Kirbert

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(Ray Livingston) #7

In reply to a message from Nev.W sent Sun 31 Jul 2011:

Neville,

MegaSquirt is US$100 more than MegaJolt. The whole point of
this conversion is reliability, and using a low-volume part
like MegaSquirt kinda defeats that goal. I had considered
doing a custom electronics box with, effectively, the MegaJolt
and EDIS in a single module, but ruled that out for the same
reason - if it dies in the middle of nowhere, the user is
really hosed. With EDIS, you can ALWAYS get the parts.–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
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(sduchene@mindspring.com) #8

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 31 Jul 2011:

There is a bearing mounted at the front of the engine that
supports the center chain gear.–
The original message included these comments:

They must have had something, because this shaft holds an idler for
the timing chain.
– Kirbert


Steven A. DuChene - XJ6VDP XJ6C XJ12C XK120SE 3.8S E-Types
Phoenix, AZ Atlanta GA, NE Oh, United States
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(Nev.W) #9

In reply to a message from StevenD57 sent Mon 1 Aug 2011:

Ray perhaps you can answer a question for me. Is EDIS technology a
current production offering from Ford, Or has it been superceeded
by their more advanced engine management systems?

As far as I can determine, they stopped using it in this part of
the world about ten years ago, but I may be wrong.–
Neville S1 XJ12, Megasquirt ECU
Christchurch, New Zealand
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(sduchene@mindspring.com) #10

In reply to a message from Nev.W sent Mon 1 Aug 2011:

Neville:
That is correct. The basic EDIS bits have not been used on
Ford production vehicles since mid 1990’s–
The original message included these comments:

Ray perhaps you can answer a question for me. Is EDIS technology a
current production offering from Ford, Or has it been superceeded
by their more advanced engine management systems?
As far as I can determine, they stopped using it in this part of
the world about ten years ago, but I may be wrong.

Neville S1 XJ12, Megasquirt ECU


Steven A. DuChene - XJ6VDP XJ6C XJ12C XK120SE 3.8S E-Types
Phoenix, AZ Atlanta GA, NE Oh, United States
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(Nev.W) #11

In reply to a message from StevenD57 sent Mon 1 Aug 2011:

Thanks Steven, I thought that was the case.

For me, and I speak only from my own philosophy, that is a good
reason not to use EDIS. It’s not a current product. I take Ray’s
comments about reliability on board, But Megasquirt and Megajolt
are both products of Bowling & Grippo, so neither is ‘‘major
manufacturer’’ main stream, but…

They are open source products which are supported by an
international community of enthusiasts with structured on-line
help. A Megasquirt ECU could be trouble-shot / repaired any where
in the world. Try that with your factory fitted ECU.–
The original message included these comments:

That is correct. The basic EDIS bits have not been used on
Ford production vehicles since mid 1990’s


Neville S1 XJ12, Megasquirt ECU
Christchurch, New Zealand
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(sduchene@mindspring.com) #12

In reply to a message from Nev.W sent Mon 1 Aug 2011:

Neville:
I think you are misunderstanding what Ray is proposing. I
believe his solution will be Megasquirt/Megajolt based as
far as the ECU that controls the ignition. He is using the
EDIS bits as part of the solution.

EDIS bits (controller, toothed wheel, VR sensor, and coil
pack) are VERY plentiful in junk-yards here in the US. There
are a whole bunch of Fords that these were used on. In 5
years this story may change but right now is the time to
stock up on cheap spares for this solution.–
The original message included these comments:

For me, and I speak only from my own philosophy, that is a good
reason not to use EDIS. It’s not a current product. I take Ray’s
comments about reliability on board, But Megasquirt and Megajolt
are both products of Bowling & Grippo, so neither is ‘‘major
manufacturer’’ main stream, but…


Steven A. DuChene - XJ6VDP XJ6C XJ12C XK120SE 3.8S E-Types
Phoenix, AZ Atlanta GA, NE Oh, United States
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(Matt Furness) #13

In reply to a message from Nev.W sent Mon 1 Aug 2011:

Neville
How difficult is it to convert to this system??
And what hardware did you use ??
I am going to pull my engine out soon and am considering making
this change while I have it out.
I have refurbed my ignition system but I like the idea of imposing
full computer control over the timing and fuelling.
Regards–
The original message included these comments:

They are open source products which are supported by an
international community of enthusiasts with structured on-line
help. A Megasquirt ECU could be trouble-shot / repaired any where


Matt Furness 85XJS-HE 5 Speed Manual
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(Nev.W) #14

In reply to a message from MattFurness sent Tue 2 Aug 2011:

Matt I think the hardest part is establishing a specification for
yourself, because there are so many options. Also because I was
converting a carburettor car I had to make a new wiring loom which
was not hard, but quite time consuming.

At the outset I wanted to go wasted spark ignition and elminate the
distributor. I also decided I would drive the system using a
toothed wheel on the crank and a crank position sensor. These
choices narrowed the options somewhat.

You need:

  1. The ECU - available as a kitset to assemble yourself, which
    comes with very detailed instructions - or ready made. MS2 will
    handle a V-12 fine, while the latest MS3 has more input and output
    options, it’s optimised around sequential injection on a V-8 and
    costs twice as much. Not necessary
  2. Toothed wheel for the crank (I could supply you this).
  3. Crank position sensor - I used a Falcon one, $20 or less.
  4. Mounting bracket for the above which you will have to make.
  5. Coil packs if you are going wasted spark. I used AU Falcon ones.
    They are quite big and heavy, but the big fat blue spark will jump
    a 50mm gap with a sound like a rifle shot and has to be seen to be
    believed. Nissan Skyline ones are good too. Apparently V-6
    Commodore coils are not so good and best avoided. If buying coils
    from a wrecking yard insist on getting the 4 pin low tension plugs
    and a short piece of loom. These plugs are impossible to buy. You
    can’t get terminals either, but the plugs come apart and with care
    the terminals can be re-used.
  6. Blanking plate for the distributor hole.
  7. Coolant temperature Sender (Bosch $25)
  8. Inlet air temp sender (Bosch $70)
  9. Throttle position sensor
  10. A wiring loom - if you are converting an injected car a lot of
    the above hardware will be existing and will serve fine.
  11. Coil ignitors - I made my own but have since found there are
    various Nissan and Toyota ones out there which are cheap.
  12. If converting a pre HE car you need a set of HE fuel injectors.
    The pre HE ones are way to big for any sensible street application
    and make it hard to get control over low fuelling requirements.
  13. An idle air valve of some sort. Again Bosch seems high on the
    list of preferences.
  14. To get the best out of the system you want Wide Band O2 sensors
    and their interfaces. I’m using NGK Powerdex, but Innovate seems to
    be the main player there.

I think that fairly much covers it. To get six coil trigger signals
out of the ECU you need a few extra electronic components, but it’s
all explained in the manual and I picked these up at Jaycar for
less than $10

You will need fuel and ignition maps of course, but there are
plenty of people on this forum can help you with that.–
The original message included these comments:

How difficult is it to convert to this system??
And what hardware did you use ??
I am going to pull my engine out soon and am considering making
this change while I have it out.
I have refurbed my ignition system but I like the idea of imposing
full computer control over the timing and fuelling.


Neville S1 XJ12, Megasquirt ECU
Christchurch, New Zealand
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(Matt Furness) #15

In reply to a message from Nev.W sent Tue 2 Aug 2011:

Neville
Wow. Great Answer!!! Thanks for that info. I am converting my 85 HE
so I have a lot of the stuff you have indicated already on the
system.
I am now quite enthusiastic to give this a go!!
Regards
Matt–
The original message included these comments:

You need:


Matt Furness 85XJS-HE 5 Speed Manual
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(Jag nuts) #16

Hey Ray, Any chance you’ve put together V12 EDIS or COP kits for V12? I have an 89 XJS that had an engine fire in the valley and want to go distributorless. Can handle the mechanical and electrical but just don’t have the stamina to take on a lot of software tuning. Can you help a brother out?
Bill


(Lundabo) #17

hey Ray…I’m on the Peninsula, so not so close to you, but if you have no other options…


(Robin O'Connor) #18

Lundabo, the original post was from 7 years ago, I think Ray is sorted now.


(Lundabo) #19

Lol…I hate when old posts are revived…i never look for the dates. :relaxed:


(Kirbert - author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.) #20

They just don’t seem to go away here. It’s as though they sit there in limbo, forgotten, until somebody performs a search or something, finds a thread that hasn’t been seen in years, posts a reply to it, and next thing you know it’s back up for all to see.

Perhaps this online forum needs to be tweaked a bit. Like, perhaps, if more than a month has passed between postings, it could place a bold stripe across the space between the old posting and the new reply.