Driver’s Ed in this country teaches how to parallel park. Driver’s
Ed in other countries teaches how to maintain a car. Perhaps we
should take a lesson.
Not exactly proud of this but… It took me 3 cars before I learned how
not to destroy an automobile. One Cutlass Supreme, one Ford Contour,
and one Ford Taurus. I am now older and less stupid, so I perform the
preemptive maintenance.
Any teenager whose not in auto shop class needs to be sat down, and
given “the talk” about preemptive car maintenance. For that matter,
friends in their early-20’s, moms, sisters, and the average Joe need
it as well. MHO.
So you are saying I should have just gotten a distributor out of a later model
XJ-S? But, if I understand
the Book correctly it would have to be '82-89, and these are not only
different in
the ignition
side, but also the EFI side. So wouldn’t I also have to change the ECU?
And the
injectors? And the
harness going back to the boot? Or, can one put just the ignition pieces
in the old
D-Jetronics distributor?
Doesn’t your car get the trigger impulse from the negative side of the
ignition just like the CEI?
AFAIK, you’d just swap it straight out without any big deal.
I do believe that John Testrake has a modified CEI unit in his '76 XJ12
that is made to resemble the OPUS but it’s actually a CEI.
I don’t think that the ECU is affected at all.
Jeb
-To unsubscribe go to
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
23
Not exactly proud of this but… It took me 3 cars before I learned
how not to destroy an automobile.
Three? You learn fast! Some of us are STILL trying to figure it out!
One Cutlass Supreme, one Ford
Contour, and one Ford Taurus.
Yeah, well, all of those were expendable.
I am now older and less stupid, so I
perform the preemptive maintenance.
Probably didn’t matter on the Taurus, it woulda self-distructed with
or without regular maintenance.
Any teenager whose not in auto shop class needs to be sat down, and
given “the talk” about preemptive car maintenance. For that matter,
friends in their early-20’s, moms, sisters, and the average Joe need
it as well.
Some interest and/or incentive might be needed as well. Typical
teenager won’t care for spending $$$ on oil changes if Daddy will buy
a new car if this one falls apart.
I really liked the idea one jag-lover had of buying his teen an XJ6
that needed work somewhere around age 14. That way the kid had a
coupla years to fix the car up before he could drive it – by which
time he was very interested in protecting it! Didn’t cost much
either, and resulted in a very safe car for a teenager – as well as
something with the potential to impress the crowd at high school.
Doesn’t your car get the trigger impulse from the negative side of the
ignition just like the CEI?
There is a separate “trigger board” for the EFI.
AFAIK, you’d just swap it straight out without any big deal.
I do believe that John Testrake has a modified CEI unit in his '76 XJ12
that is made to resemble the OPUS but it’s actually a CEI.
Since responding to your note I read what the Book had to say about it. While the
tone
was positive, it left me with the impression I’d be chasing around junk yards and
having lots of headaches installing it. It seemed familiar, so perhaps I read it
earlier and
dismissed the CEI alternative. OTOH, the Crane approach sounded so easy…
But I think I have my problems behind me. The shutter disk is indeed eccentric by
about 20 degrees,
with the smallest radius right at the angle where 3A-4B would be firing. I made up
a new “shim,”
which is now 3/16" to get the sensor well over the slots. Put it back together and
no missing!
But, as I am inclined to do, I once again locked the base down such that I could
not quite get
my 10 BTDC with the vernier. It idles pretty well at 8, but tomorrow I will move
the base and reset
it correctly.
Since responding to your note I read what the Book had to say about it.
While the
tone
was positive, it left me with the impression I’d be chasing around junk
yards and
having lots of headaches installing it. It seemed familiar, so perhaps I
read it
earlier and
dismissed the CEI alternative. OTOH, the Crane approach sounded so easy…
Ah yes…hindsight!!! I haven’t done a CEI conversion to an earlier car
but I kinda doubt that it’s rocket science.
But I think I have my problems behind me. The shutter disk is indeed
eccentric by
about 20 degrees,
with the smallest radius right at the angle where 3A-4B would be firing. I
made up
a new “shim,”
which is now 3/16" to get the sensor well over the slots. Put it
back together and
no missing!
Great!!!
But, as I am inclined to do, I once again locked the base down such that I
could
not quite get
my 10 BTDC with the vernier. It idles pretty well at 8, but tomorrow I
will move
the base and reset
it correctly.
In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Thu 5 Sep 2002:
I was flipping through the JL Photo Archives and came across a post
from a 15 year old teenager with a Jag. I sent an e-mail asking
what the story was and how she ended up with a Series III.
As it turns out, a father bought her daughter the Jag but it needed
a new engine but the rest of the car was in great shape. They
bought it for a steal of a price. At the same time, they bought
another car that had a good Chevy engine and they both worked on
the transplant. After school, she would help disassemble the old
engine with her father and reassemble the new. It took many months
to do but after it was done, its now on the road and you can bet
that she is interested in keeping up the maintenance!
Remarkable. I hope to do the same things with my kids some day
though that day is a long way off.
Sunny–
The original message included these comments:
I really liked the idea one jag-lover had of buying his teen an XJ6
that needed work somewhere around age 14. That way the kid had a
coupla years to fix the car up before he could drive it – by which
time he was very interested in protecting it! Didn’t cost much
either, and resulted in a very safe car for a teenager – as well as
something with the potential to impress the crowd at high school.
–
Sunny Garofalo, '97 XJ6 Anthracite, '76 XJ12L Sable
Sherman Oaks, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
I want to confirm that the problem was exactly as you suspected. The Crane
disk,
which comes pop-riveted to the plastic hub, was a little bit off center. I
measured the
distance from the about the hub hole to the disk edge near the 3A-4B slots,
and at the diametrically opposite side. The 3A-4B side was 0.025" shorter
than the
opposite side. This plus the diode being mounted right at the edge of the
disk
was enough to cause the problem.
The fix was easy. I had a 1/8" shim behind the sensor, and I replaced it with
3/16".
The car runs well now. I will have to drive it a while before reporting that
it
solved the rough running when hot problem.
Thanks!
Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S
Mike Morrin wrote:
Ed,
If you have a timing light, connect it to each HT lead in turn, to see if
one or more cylinders are not firing.
Perhaps if the trigger wheel is slightly off centre and the LED is out of
alignment??
I want to confirm that the problem was exactly as you suspected.
I’ve noticed that some people on this list are scary smart…
:)---------------------------------
Robert
73XJ12HE
87XJ-SC
-To unsubscribe go to
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
30
Edward F. Sowell wrote:
The
Crane disk, which comes pop-riveted to the plastic hub, was a little
bit off center. I measured the distance from the about the hub hole to
the disk edge near the 3A-4B slots, and at the diametrically opposite
side. The 3A-4B side was 0.025" shorter than the opposite side. This
plus the diode being mounted right at the edge of the disk was enough
to cause the problem.
The fix was easy. I had a 1/8" shim behind the sensor, and I replaced
it with 3/16". The car runs well now. I will have to drive it a while
before reporting that it solved the rough running when hot problem.
I don’t think you’re done. That shutter disc really needs to be
centered. With it off-center like that, the timing at the apogee and
perigee will be fine, but the timing at the cylinders 90� will be
advanced a bit on one side and retarded a bit on the other.
I know it’s a bit late in the game now, but why did you choose the Crane
over the PerTronix ignition? http://www.classicgarage.com/classicgarage/200.html (the price of which
seems pretty steep compared to most PerTronix ignitions.) For those who do
not know, the PertTronix ignition triggers the coil with a hall effect
sensor. A ring with magnets fits over the distributer shaft & a hall effect
sensor is positioned inside. The mounting, at least on an American car, is
not nearly as fiddily as the Crane system, & can tell you that these things
are the simplest thing in the world to drop in (at least on an American
distributor). They can also be used to trigger an aftermarket box, though I
don’t know about the XR-700.
So, your point, I believe, is that because of the Crane assembly error these
slots are
not on radii from the center or rotation? Yes, I can see that, but I think
its very small.
The measurements I took showed a 0.025 difference, which could be viewed as
a 0.012" off center. So the angle between the slots and true radial slots
will be quite small,
I think it’s roughly the angle of an equlateral triangle with the equal
sides being about 1.5"
and the base 0.012", perhaps 1/2 degree.
Now, the pickup is at a fixed radius, therefore follows a perfect circle
that could
be scribed on the disk. It will cross every slot. The error you are talking
about is the distance
along this circle between intersections with the actual and ideal slots. I
haven’t done the math,
but its bound to be a pretty small fraction of the distance between slots.
Besides, I’m getting tired of this project!
Or is there something I’m missing
Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S
Kirbert wrote:
I don’t think you’re done. That shutter disc really needs to be
centered. With it off-center like that, the timing at the apogee and
perigee will be fine, but the timing at the cylinders 90� will be
advanced a bit on one side and retarded a bit on the other.
I know it’s a bit late in the game now, but why did you choose the Crane
over the PerTronix ignition?
Yes, you are late! Where were you when I started this?
I guess I went with Crane because several listers have described the Crane
conversion,
but I’ve not seen anything on PerTronix. I gather you haven’t seen one used
in one of our cars either. Does not mean we shouldn’t be looking at it, of
course.
You are correct. Many on this list have used the Crane system. As you
know I have had a Crane/Allison system for the last 15 years with no
problems. I wonder what the track record of the PerTronix is?
Bernie>
Paul Kobres wrote:
I know it’s a bit late in the game now, but why did you choose the Crane
over the PerTronix ignition?
Yes, you are late! Where were you when I started this?
I guess I went with Crane because several listers have described the Crane
conversion,
but I’ve not seen anything on PerTronix. I gather you haven’t seen one used
in one of our cars either.
Ed sowell
–
The manual said “Windows XP or better” so I bought a Macintosh
==============================================
I wonder what the track record of the PerTronix is?
I don’t know either. I guess the question is how reliable is the average
hall effect sensor? There was a nice write up in a recent mag about various
upgrade ignitions (I’ll have to look around for the mag name & issue #)
Personally I’ve had the optical Crane system (not the XR-700) on a Bosh 6cyl
distributor in a 1968 250/8 MB. I had no problems with the ignition. I
loved it! I’m sure it provides a hotter spark than the PerTronix does as
the PerTronix only triggers the coil itself.
I put a PerTronix on my girlfriend’s parent’s 6Cyl Corvair about a month
ago. It was extremely simple. The system comes with a points replacement
plate that is almost a duplicate of the original plate. The magnetic ring
easily fits over the distributor shaft. It comes with a Plexiglas feeler
gauge to ensure correct spacing between the hall effect sensor (which in
size & shape is similar to the Crane optical pickup, except that it is not
split for the chopper wheel) and the magnetic collar. A wire screws in
between the replacement plate & the distributor body to ensure grounding.
Two wires extend from the hall effect sensor & go to the positive & negative
sides of the coil. That’s it.
If there is no hole or groove in the distributor, you have to grind a groove
in the edge of the distributor cap to make sure you don’t crush the wires
from the hall effect sensor.
Most people putting these things in just want to get away from points
without having the car look too non-stock.
I was amazed. I didn’t even have to adjust the timing.
I’m not sure if PerTronix makes a system for the later CEI ignition, but why
would you want it at that point
Bottom line. I like both systems. I suspect the Crane provides a far hotter
spark, but installation is a whole lot more fiddly & the brackets are
flimsy. I also think the PerTronix could trigger a normal aftermarket
ignition box.
Pertronix seems to work good on many V8 & 4-cylinder cars I’ve messed
with…as for getting it to trigger the XR700, you don’t need to b/c the
Pertronix works in lieu of the XR700 unit. But, you can hook up the
Pertronix to any CD add-on box (like the Crane HI-6). You’d just connect
the red Pertronix wire to 12V+ lead & the other Petronix wire to the points
lead (NOT magnetic trigger) of whatever add-on box you are using.
At 02:28 PM 9/6/2002 -0400, you wrote:
Ed
You are correct. Many on this list have used the Crane system. As you know
I have had a Crane/Allison system for the last 15 years with no problems.
I wonder what the track record of the PerTronix is?
Bernie
Paul Kobres wrote:
I know it’s a bit late in the game now, but why did you choose the Crane
over the PerTronix ignition?
Yes, you are late! Where were you when I started this?
I guess I went with Crane because several listers have described the Crane
conversion,
but I’ve not seen anything on PerTronix. I gather you haven’t seen one used
in one of our cars either.
Ed sowell
–
The manual said “Windows XP or better” so I bought a Macintosh
==============================================