[v12-engine] Crankcase Banjo Bolt

Dear Turkey Chasers,

I have an oil leak from what seems to be a banjo bolt
on the crankcase above the oil filter. I believe this
is the return line to the oil cooler. I suppose the
bolt is either loose or the washer is decrepit
or…what?

I would prefer to have all the right parts in hand
before I crawl back under there. (Translation: “God,
it’s scary under this two ton machine.”) I think this
is a simple fix. Enlighten me if need be.

I’ve never been there before but is there a special
(copper?) washer that may be worn like the ones at the
radiator banjo bolt? Is there an improvement to stock
on this washer?

Is there an easy way to tighten this bolt without
removing the oil filter?

Thanks for the help,

Dean
1988 XJ-S (Too pretty, dependable, and paid-for to trade-in.)__________________________________________________
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Dean

You are right this a simple fix. Its too late to monkey with this
tonight. First thing tomorrow morning drive over to your favorite Jaguar
Dealer and they will simply fix it for you. When you get the bill for
their simple fix you will be able to empathize with how that turkey
feels while he’s getting his “stuffing” put in place.

I hope this helps.

Happy Thanksgiving

Dr. Judson Werbela
Greensboro, NC
'89 XJS Coupe
'96 XJS Convertible
PS: If I lived closer I would come over and we could have a “looky see”
and “mash” a new washer in place “faster than two shakes of a dawg’s tail”.

Dean wrote:

Dear Turkey Chasers,

I have an oil leak from what seems to be a banjo bolt
on the crankcase above the oil filter. I believe this
is the return line to the oil cooler. I suppose the
bolt is either loose or the washer is decrepit
or…what?

I would prefer to have all the right parts in hand
before I crawl back under there. (Translation: “God,
it’s scary under this two ton machine.”) I think this
is a simple fix. Enlighten me if need be.

I’ve never been there before but is there a special
(copper?) washer that may be worn like the ones at the
radiator banjo bolt? Is there an improvement to stock
on this washer?

Is there an easy way to tighten this bolt without
removing the oil filter?

Thanks for the help,

Dean
1988 XJ-S (Too pretty, dependable, and paid-for to trade-in.)


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Dean

Sorry Dean about the previous post, I couldn’t resist.On a more a more serious note, do you think the leak is coming from the oil pressure relief valve or are you thinking the leak is coming from between the main banjo bolt and oil supply line going to the tappet blocks and oil pressure sending unit and switch? If its the latter, you can get change it out from above if you remove the crossbrace and work your hand betwen the firewall and the outside of tappet block. Feel for the oil supply line from tappet block and follow it to the main banjo bolt. I remember the banjo bolts are 16mm because I lost two 16mm wrenches into the ‘black hole of lost tools’ the last time I worked on the tappet banjo bolts and washers. Getting the main banjo bolt out shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Making sure the two old copper washers are off the mating surfaces of the inner oil supply & engine surface and the banjo bolt and outer oil supply surface is the tricky part. Straight edge razor blade worked for me. You will need two new copper washers: .023 inch thick x .3785 inch ID x 5/8 inch OD (my Brown& Sharpe veneer just went dead, needs new batteries). I sure the Jag dealer can supply you with them or you can try using Kirby’s Book’s sugestion of copper brake washers which are quite a bit thicker. Seems I remember somebody suggesting 3/8 inch copper electrical ring terminals which were closer to the right thickness. Somebody else had a good suggestion of using a bit of thread to hold the washers in place until you get the banjo bolt in place. then you can torque the banjo bolt to crush the washers to produce a good seal. If it turns out to be the former, I have never replace my oil pressure releif valve or the two rubber supply hoses or rebuilt the filter housing. I think that might be a better possibility where a leak might spring from on 10 year old rubber. The ROM says you need to release the exhaust pipe to get at this area. If you got to do that, you might as well replace all the seals, hoses, relief valve and O-rings to the oil filter head housing while your in there since this is an area reputed to be prone to leakage. I would replace all the bolts with new ones since Jaguar put a bulletin out a while ago suggesting this shou be done as a standard rebuild. Wasn’t it Julian Mullany(sp?) who just did a rebuild on his car in this area? If it was that would be a good source of information on doing this job or some professional like Jeb or Phil Prince could jump in. Are you sure you don’t have a tower seal leak on your steering rack? It could certainly squirt fluid on that area and make you think that it a local leak. Good Luck Dr. Judson Werbela Greensboro, NC '89 XJS Coupe '96 XJS Convertible . Dean wrote:

Dear Turkey Chasers,

I have an oil leak from what seems to be a banjo bolt
on the crankcase above the oil filter. I believe this
is the return line to the oil cooler. I suppose the
bolt is either loose or the washer is decrepit
or…what?

I would prefer to have all the right parts in hand
before I crawl back under there. (Translation: “God,
it’s scary under this two ton machine.”) I think this
is a simple fix. Enlighten me if need be.

I’ve never been there before but is there a special
(copper?) washer that may be worn like the ones at the
radiator banjo bolt? Is there an improvement to stock
on this washer?

Is there an easy way to tighten this bolt without
removing the oil filter?

Thanks for the help,

Dean
1988 XJ-S (Too pretty, dependable, and paid-for to trade-in.)


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Easy way to do anything on a V-12??? Not hardly. But I really don’t think
your leak is coming from that washer. Most likely it is coming from the top
& running down the pipe. Usual suspect is the cam cover 1/2 moon seal. If
you try tightening the banjo bolt, you run the risk of snapping it off.
Since it IS hollow, it can’t take a lot of torque. Get out your flashlight &
follow the trail of oil upward until it stops. That is where the leak is
coming from.

Phil Prince>From: Dean rdhubba@yahoo.com

To: v12-engine@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [v12-engine] Crankcase Banjo Bolt
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:30:45 -0800 (PST)

Dear Turkey Chasers,

I have an oil leak from what seems to be a banjo bolt
on the crankcase above the oil filter. I believe this
is the return line to the oil cooler. I suppose the
bolt is either loose or the washer is decrepit
or…what?

I would prefer to have all the right parts in hand
before I crawl back under there. (Translation: “God,
it’s scary under this two ton machine.”) I think this
is a simple fix. Enlighten me if need be.

I’ve never been there before but is there a special
(copper?) washer that may be worn like the ones at the
radiator banjo bolt? Is there an improvement to stock
on this washer?

Is there an easy way to tighten this bolt without
removing the oil filter?

Thanks for the help,

Dean
1988 XJ-S (Too pretty, dependable, and paid-for to trade-in.)


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I’ve never been there before but is there a special
(copper?) washer that may be worn like the ones at the
radiator banjo bolt? Is there an improvement to stock
on this washer?

Bog standard washer, Dean - nuthin special. But - anneal it before you
install to soften it up. Heat it to cherry red in a gas torch and let it
cool slowly. Clean off the oxide gently with a little abrasive paper and
whack it into place.

Craig

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Actually, you don’t have to cool copper slowly to anneal it, you can just
drop the red-hot washer into water. The advantage is that the thermal shock
causes the oxide to fall off - no sanding necessary.

Mike Eck
New Jersey, USA
'51 XK120 OTS
'62 3.8 MK2 MOD
'72 SIII E-Type 2+2----- Original Message -----
From: “Craig Sawyers” c.sawyers@tech-enterprise.com
To: v12-engine@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: [v12-engine] Crankcase Banjo Bolt

I’ve never been there before but is there a special
(copper?) washer that may be worn like the ones at the
radiator banjo bolt? Is there an improvement to stock
on this washer?

Bog standard washer, Dean - nuthin special. But - anneal it before you
install to soften it up. Heat it to cherry red in a gas torch and let it
cool slowly. Clean off the oxide gently with a little abrasive paper and
whack it into place.

Craig

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Mike wrote

Actually, you don’t have to cool copper slowly to anneal it, you can just
drop the red-hot washer into water. The advantage is that the thermal
shock
causes the oxide to fall off - no sanding necessary.

I think if you let it cool slowly you actually harden it.
Copper is the opposite to steel.

Cheers
Ken Gray

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go get a stat-O-seal washer and the longer bolts.

bob

Ken Gray wrote:

Mike wrote

Actually, you don’t have to cool copper slowly to anneal it, you can just
drop the red-hot washer into water. The advantage is that the thermal
shock
causes the oxide to fall off - no sanding necessary.

I think if you let it cool slowly you actually harden it.
Copper is the opposite to steel.

Cheers
Ken Gray

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Actually, you don’t have to cool copper slowly to anneal it, you can just
drop the red-hot washer into water. The advantage is that the
thermal shock
causes the oxide to fall off - no sanding necessary.

Sure - but it cools in thirty seconds anyway, and it is a lot softer with
slow cooling as opposed to quenching. So there is very little time penalty
in doing it the slow way.

Craig

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Here’s a bit of info about annealing copper that I grabbed off the web:

"Generally annealing is done at greater than 1/2 of the melting point on the
absolute temperature scale. Copper melts at 1083C = 1356K so the annealing is
done at greater than 678K = 405C = 761F. However, it will take a fairly long
time at the lower end of the range so it is more common to anneal at about 700
to 800C. The copper can be worked and annealed many, many times . . . since we
really don’t need extremely tightly controlled properties. The properties will
degrade with repeated cycles for various reasons - oxidation being the most
obvious.

The copper will maintain it’s soft crystal structure after annealing at any
realistic cooling rate (from very slow like letting fire die down to fast like
throwing it in a bucket of water). Generally, I would suggest water cooling to
prevent excessive oxidation of the surface. . . . . However, it is possible to
cool copper fast enough to make it into a brittle material. This normally
involves cooling rates of greater than 10 million degrees C per second which can
only be obtained by spraying a very thin film on to a very cold surface (this
equipment is very expensive)."

So it looks like copper can be air-cooled as well as quench-cooled to generate
basically the same results.

Best regards,

Gregory Wells
Coventry West, Inc., Atlanta, GA
New, Rebuilt, & Used Jaguar Parts


800-331-2193 x103

Ken Gray wrote:

Mike wrote

Actually, you don’t have to cool copper slowly to anneal it, you can just
drop the red-hot washer into water. The advantage is that the thermal
shock causes the oxide to fall off - no sanding necessary

I think if you let it cool slowly you actually harden it.
Copper is the opposite to steel.

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Just a note on annealing the copper. When I was building the Chrysler
Hemi’s for my drag boats in the 80’s. I had one set of billet aluminum
heads that used a stainless O-ring and a dead soft copper head gasket for
sealing. We reused the gaskets many times due to the cost. I tried both
quenching the gaskets after heating them with torch and rosebud tip, and
just letting them cool. I felt that just letting them cool with ambient
temp worked best. The gaskets seemed to stay plenty soft and didn’t scale
as bad. Just thought I’d throw in my personal experience. Jerry

Jerry Holloway
1990 XJ-S Convertible

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