[v12-engine] Starts when forced, then dies :-(

Hi guys!

Believe it or not; precisely 8 o’clock pm. I turned the
ignition key, but I guess too many of you forgot to cross
your fingers!

The engine would not run at all. Did not catch on at all,
until I gave it a shot of ether in each carb, it then sort
of sprung to life. Enough for me to establish that the A
bank ran flawlessly, but this time the B bank ran rough.
However, it’s not the right time to diagnose until the thing
runs, AND responds to throttle. As it is now, throttle kills
it right off!

I guess I’m back to where I was before I decided to proof
the cams, although with that significant improvement, that
the engine appears to be correctly set with regards to the
cams. In other words, back to SNG Barratt and discuss what I
did to the ignition system during the timing…

To be continued… G*D I’m sick of this!!

Bard–
Bard Th Hesvik
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

In reply to a message from Bard Th Hesvik sent Wed 21 Jun 2006:

Found (part of) the reason for the engine to not run after camshaft-
job; Right tank contained about two gallons of water, so water had
been pumped into the carbs!

Cleaned out the carbs and tried again. Engine ticks over, but
responds badly to throttle; cracks and sneezes in both carbs and
exhaust… and won’t rev!

I can’t for the life of me understand what has changed with the
carbs! I’ve had them removed from the engine but no adjustments
have been done. If anything, they should work better after the
thorough cleanout with compressed air.

Please offer your best advice!

Regards,
Bard–
Bard Th Hesvik
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

In reply to a message from Bard Th Hesvik sent Wed 28 Jun 2006:

Ah, well! The cause of my problems seems to be one of mans best
friends; water!

I never get the hang of how the tanks, pumps, switching and
equalizing works on these things, and how water could be present in
the left hand tank again after draining 2 gallons from it (until
only petrol ran out of the drain hole) the other day - with no rain
in between - and verifying that the left tank yielded petrol only,
I’ll never know!

I had the engine running fair on tickover, but sputtering and
mirfiring upon throttle. Cleaned the carbs thoroughly and put it
all together again (apart from the float chambers which were nicely
laid out in the passengers footwell but, it is possible to remove
and refit them with carbs in situ!)

I then made sure the ‘‘good’’ tank was selected, and tried starting.
When it still ran poorly on throttle I was about to give up! Then I
thought I’d replace the bad tank gauge in the left tank and decided
to drain it by pumping the petrol into emergency cans. I was
surprised to find the left tank was almost empty, because it had
only run a few miles since full but was used extensively while
idling. I thought I’d check out the right (water-ridden) tank, and
found it to contain half a litre of H2O again. Drained, pumped
through, and started up immediately getting a better feeling. The
engine could actually be revved!

Question: Do the tanks equalize on a Series I XJ12??

I knew I had a bad filler neck drain on the right hand side, but
never got around to giving it a proper go. Well, I did now! An
attempt to stick a nylon tubing up from below offered half an inch
penetration. Pulling the end of the hose I got another inch of it
out which showed some sort of twisting of the hose, completely
plugging it where it passed through the lower quart panel. Snip
with the siccors and a little working up and down freed the drain,
and it now works as it’s supposed to! Ten minutes work…

I’m not taking the carbs out again, just drive them clean, of
course after doing the filter. No water is ever going to get into
these carbs again!

Sorry about the longish post. I’ll reply privately next time q;-)

Cheers,
Bard–
Bard Th Hesvik
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

Bard

Sounds like your one way valve system for the two tanks is not sealing
properly. Any fuel pumped from the RH should either be burned or returned
to the LH, and v.v. The manual should show the arrangement clearly. Make
sure the replacement valve is for a series 1. You could also check the pump
valves to ensure that the valve in the pump which has not been activated is
properly closed - otherwise it can leak fuel into the opposite tank.

Our series 1 had a similar problem when first acquired. Ultimately the fuel
pump proved to be the culprit.

I also had a similar problem with water when the drain tube blocked up just
before taking a long drive in heavy rain, which was followed by a good wash
with copious rinsing. I find clearance with compressed air works best,
blowing from the top of the tube.

I suggest you run some methylated spirit through each tank to remove any
water traces from the fuel system. I have found that about � litre per
tankful is OK.

cheers

George
1972 XJ12 swb #292

Message included
�…I never get the hang of how the tanks, pumps, switching and
equalizing works on these things, and how water could be present in
the left hand tank again after draining 2 gallons from it (until
only petrol ran out of the drain hole) the other day - with no rain
in between - and verifying that the left tank yielded petrol only,
I’ll never know!

…I then made sure the ‘‘good’’ tank was selected, …
When it still ran poorly on throttle I was about to give up! Then I
thought I’d replace the bad tank gauge in the left tank and decided
to drain it by pumping the petrol into emergency cans. I was
surprised to find the left tank was almost empty, because it had
only run a few miles since full but was used extensively while
idling. I thought I’d check out the right (water-ridden) tank, and
found it to contain half a litre of H2O again. Drained, pumped
through, and started up immediately getting a better feeling. The
engine could actually be revved!

Question: Do the tanks equalize on a Series I XJ12??

I knew I had a bad filler neck drain on the right hand side, but
…a little working up and down freed the drain,
and it now works as it’s supposed to! Ten minutes work…

I’m not taking the carbs out again, just drive them clean, of
course after doing the filter. No water is ever going to get into
these carbs again!

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

OOPS -sorry
“LH” should read “RH” of course…

George

“…Any fuel pumped from the RH should either be burned or returned
to the LH, and v.v…”

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

George Morrell wrote:

I also had a similar problem with water when the drain tube blocked
up just
before taking a long drive in heavy rain, which was followed by a
good wash
with copious rinsing. I find clearance with compressed air works
best,
blowing from the top of the tube.

I suggest you guys work on those fuel fillers. You shouldn’t get
water in the tank even if the drain is plugged. If the old Series 1
fillers don’t seal any better than that, I’d consider replacing them
with Series III fillers or whatever until they sealed properly. If
the vent is a hole in the filler cap, plug that and provide a proper
vent connection elsewhere.

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

George Morrell wrote:

Sounds like your one way valve system for the two tanks is not
sealing
properly. Any fuel pumped from the RH should either be burned or
returned
to the LH, and v.v.

Is this a typo? I thought any fuel pumped from the RH should either
be burned or returned to the RH, and v.v. If you return to a
different tank than the one pumped from, there’s a chance of draining
one tank and overflowing the other.

If there’s water involved, it wouldn’t surprise me that the valves
are acting up.

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Thu 29 Jun 2006:

Thank you for your input, guys!

I have a feeling that the real intrusion point is the foreward vent
hole in the right tank, combined with a murderously clogged drain
hose. The hose was twisted shut where it protrudes from the lower
quarter panel(!) I pulled another inch of it out the hole and
snipped a little more than what previousely showed off. Result:
perfect drainage. On the other hand, how 2 gallons + got into the
tank during a few days of rain, I’ll never know! Actually, maybe I
haven’t used that tank for the last couple of months…?

Looking at the one way valves, it doesn’t look like they’ve seen
petrol for some time. They were actually dusty(!)

Last development is that I was recommende to use a liquid called
Protec to thoroughly clean out the fuel system. I disconnected a
hose and let the pump drink a quarter of a litre directly from the
tin, then filled the rest (1/4 litre) in the tanks. I then let the
carburettors sit overnight with Protec and the next day took it for
a half hour drive.

It all worked wonders but, I’m not all in the clear yet as it still
backfires if I omit using the choke (even after it’s warmed up).

My plan is to do one more check for water in the fuel filter and/or
float chambers, and fill half a litre of Protec into each tank when
filled and just drive it.

I also plan on adjusting the mixture, giving it a little richer
mixture, since it runs better with choke…

Read about Protec here:
http://www.wobestellen.de/td-kraftstoffsystemreinigung+cleaner+line-
1pr1101~446-5039.htm

Wish me luck!

Cheers,
Bard–
Bard Th Hesvik
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

In reply to a message from Bard Th Hesvik sent Wed 5 Jul 2006:

Believe it or not, but I still found some water, and a lot of dirt
in my right hand tank (the former water ridden one) yesterday. It
may actually have entered when I washed the car the day before, as
the in-filler vent wasn’t properly connected. I have now
decommissioned it altogether (on both sides) because the hose was
chewed up and couldn’t possibly make a good connection.

After some rev-ing with and eventually without choke, I found it
getting better, so hopes are up. BTW, I fed another half tin
directly into the system, and added the rest to the tank, and plan
on sharing yet another tin between the two tanks before the car
goes the 600km to its new home in the eastern country.

Today it’s raining so I guess I’ll check one last time for water
ingress. My filler neck lids are actually quite good Series III
ones, and should be good. Although, with the 2 gallon + I drained
from the tank earlier, I’m inclined to believe anything goes!

Regards,
Bard–
Bard Th Hesvik
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !