[v12-engine] Torquatrol

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 17 Jul 2005:

After checking, it does appear that the 6 liters has a 120A
alternator, so it should not be an issue if I put an electric fan.–
XJS Convertible 1994 V12 6 liters. France.
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In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 17 Jul 2005:

Kirby, Running two alternators in parallel is done on small AC
twins. They do have a special parallelling box and balancing is a
delicate proceedure.
As far as the bolt gig, That was 40 years ago. I meant it as a
giggle. After the writeups on cracks I would think the idea would
be foolish. I did infer in my mail that it might be a good idea
for hot areas. I need to repeal that statement. Not a good idea.–
Jagsand30jugs
Edmond, OK, United States
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Jagsand30jugs wrote:

Kirby, Running two alternators in parallel is done on small AC
twins. They do have a special parallelling box and balancing is a
delicate proceedure.

That’s two ENGINES, right? So there’s the possibility that one is
turning significantly faster than the other – in fact, one can be
stopped while the other is running. That would seem to be a
challenge.

The report that they have a parallelling box would seem to confirm
that just slapping two alts on the engine and connecting them up
might be a bad idea.

I dunno what you’d do for a balancing procedure, either. Seems to me
that you simply need to make sure they don’t get into an instability
alternating between which alt is going to take most of the load.
Once you’ve figured that out, one can be running while the other is
stopped with no problems. The way I think would make sense would
be to have both alts somehow controlled by a single regulator rather
than an individual regulator in each alt, but I’m not sure that’s
either necessary or workable.

I attended a scientific lecture a couple of years back on the Navy’s
newest bright idea, electric ships. No really long extension cords
involved; rather, they’re talking about having the powerplant turning
a generator, while the screws are actually driven by electric motors.
Sorta like the way locomotives have worked for decades. They claim
all sorts of advantages, including more freedom to optimize the hull
shape. In fact, the ideas they were showing looked kinda like a
smooth hull with the screws mounted on outboard motors!

Needless to say, everything was duplicated for redundancy. Two
powerplants, two generators, two screws with a dedicated drive motor
in each. The Navy was spending untold bazillions of our hard-earned
tax dollars trying to design a control system that would allow all
these things to remain interconnected without causing all sorts of
electrical and stability issues, and also how the whole system can
keep running when one unit fails. I mean, you wouldn’t BELIEVE how
much trouble they were having. So I raised my hand and suggested
they try the opposite tack: keep the two systems totally separate,
one powerplant driving one generator powering one screw on each half
of the ship, and only bring the systems together when a unit fails!
It seems like it’d be much easier to me, since it’d be a simple
matter to automatically detect a failure – say, one generator trips
off line – and automatically cross-connect to the other generator at
that time to keep the system running and battle-ready. Neatly avoids
the interference issues between the two sides, since the only time
part of them is cross-connected is when one unit isn’t working! The
speaker apparently agreed with me, and in fact indicated there had
been others making similar suggestions, but the Navy was set in the
idea that all the systems had to be tied together during normal
operation.

– Kirbert

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In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Mon 18 Jul 2005:

Use two alternators but don’t tie them together.

I have a CS130D down where the Lucas was that will run the bulk of
the car’s electrical system nicely.
I also have a Ford 3G up where the air pump was. It was an easy
unit to mount but it suffers from insufficient belt wrap and slow
speed like other air pump alternator kluges do, but it should put
out enough to easily run a couple of cooling fans.

I’m presently experimenting with boosting the 3G regulator to kick
out more volts only at idle- when the radiator needs the most
amount of air. A microswitch on the pedestal and a few resistors to
provide a false reference to the ‘A line’ on the 3G should do it.
A couple of big honking blocking diodes tied into the car’s normal
power system will provide post shutdown fan power for cooling at a
reduced fan speed that will lessen current drain and quiet the fan
roar when the engine is not running. The diodes will also provide a
backup power source in case the 3G dies.–
The original message included these comments:

The report that they have a parallelling box would seem to confirm
that just slapping two alts on the engine and connecting them up
might be a bad idea.
I dunno what you’d do for a balancing procedure, either. Seems to me
that you simply need to make sure they don’t get into an instability
alternating between which alt is going to take most of the load.


Joe Bialy, ’ 87 XJ-S & '94 XJ-40
Grosse Ile, Michigan, United States
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In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 17 Jul 2005:

Thought I’d weigh in on this one-

During the process of putting my '90 back on the road (DPO had
bypassed a leaky heater core…plus more fun and games, too long to
go into here), I went through the cooling system, at least at a
rudimentary level: drained, flushed and refilled, adding Water
Wetter. Purged all the air. Checked this a couple of times.
Pretty confident of no air.

However, I noted the following behaviors: during cooler weather
(e.g., 70 F or less), car stayed absolutely cool. Two needle
widths below N, solid. As ambient temperature moved up, car would
move to N; then, needle would wander- up, above the N (just
touching, with me getting quite nervous), and then, suddenly, drop
to just below N (touching). It would do this randomly. Couldn’t
figure it out. I was speculating that perhaps scale was getting
into the thermostats, etc., etc.

I thought about the fan clutch, and determined to change this. I
used a non-OEM model that one of the Jag parts suppliers use for
this car (well known supplier). Was a bit of a bugger to install,
but, the car runs consistently on or below N, regardless the
weather (it’s been hot, too, here in Cleveland- a couple of dozen
days in the 90’s so far). First clue that original clutch may have
been bad: new clutch resulted in MUCH more fan noise. Noticeably
sucked up HP. Car stays cool, even in stopped traffic at 95F. I
don’t run air (car is a convertible, used only in good weather), so
I can’t say about the total cooling capacity.

I don’t know how to test the clutches, but, I’m not convinced that
a single bench test will necessarily reveal whether the clutch is
good or not. It appeared, on my car, to reveal a propensity for
intermittent behavior.

I have a pair of Spal fans I have to put on, but, I wanted the car
running (cool) this summer, and I figure to do the fans after the
weather changes.

FWIW,–
The original message included these comments:

Years ago Arizona residents had a sure cure for those $&^%#
Hydraulic clutches. They would drill a 1/4 hole through them and
insert a bolt!!!


Mike, 1990 5.3 XJS Convertible, ‘Caterwaul’
Lakewood, OH, United States
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