[v12-engine] V12 6.0 bellhousing pattern

ronbros · April 9, 2012, 10:34pm

In reply to a message from BobPhx sent Mon 9 Apr 2012:

the early BW V12 mounting alignment dowels different from the late
77 onward that was an actual GM dowel locations, it was the same as
an old Chevy V8 from 1955, now how far onward the GM dowel
dimentins, was carried I do not know.

( someone may have that info), ques. do the 6L block use a GM dowel
pattern?? even tho the bolt pattern may be different?

the bolt holes where the bolts go thru to the block, are off also,
i used a flat plate,BOP GM, with the dowel holes allready in it.
giving perfect alignment of block,plate, and transmission.

then drilled the bolt holes and chamfered them to flush mount the
socket head bolts, the plate had a Chevy bolt pattern on it, and I
run porper length bolts, so I used a Chevy van 700R4.

must be OK been 16yrs–
The original message included these comments:

The first production auto-box behind the 5.3 V12 was the Borg
Warner, no?
The 5.3L bolt pattern never changed, afaik… so I am wondering
if the bolt pattern was originally some sort of BW standard.

–
Ronbros
daytona fl. / Austin TX., United States
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Dr_Chadbourn_Bolles1 · April 10, 2012, 12:22am

In reply to a message from Ronbros sent Mon 9 Apr 2012:

Dowel location for the 6.0 is same as 5.3 Turbo 400.–
The original message included these comments:

an old Chevy V8 from 1955, now how far onward the GM dowel
dimentins, was carried I do not know.
( someone may have that info), ques. do the 6L block use a GM dowel
pattern?? even tho the bolt pattern may be different?

–
Dr. Chadbourn Bolles, JaguarXJ_S@Yahoo.com
Leesville, SC, United States
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ronbros · April 10, 2012, 2:54pm

In reply to a message from Dr. Chadbourn Bolles sent Mon 9 Apr 2012:

THX Chad!! that helps if and when I do a 6.0L–
The original message included these comments:

Dowel location for the 6.0 is same as 5.3 Turbo 400.
Dr. Chadbourn Bolles, JaguarXJ_S@Yahoo.com
Leesville, SC, United States

–
Ronbros
daytona fl. / Austin TX., United States
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Russell_Barnes · April 10, 2012, 10:45pm

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Fri 6 Apr 2012:–
Russell Barnes
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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britirn · April 11, 2012, 4:38am

In reply to a message from Bill de Creeft sent Sat 7 Apr 2012:

No one seems to have mentioned that the 4L80E is an electronic
tranny youll need a controller/ ecu for it not to mention the MAP
sensor wiring and TPS signal to have it run/work properly. Just
thought I should mention it. Look at the Schematics on Captain
Jaguar Cat House for it.:^) Cheers…–
The original message included these comments:

So then is the GM 400 bolt pattern that fits the V12 5.3L the same bolt pattern as the GM 400 that fits the V12 6L ?
Because I don’t know anything about the trans that’s on the 6L and I just assumed it’s the same unit.
The bolt pattern that fits the 5.3 L is the one that fits RR and Ferrari…so I just figured that’s reasonable; they used a pre-existing tranny when they adapted to it… not so ?
It doesn’t really matter, I guess; at the time I was looking for a GM400 that would replace mine and was given the information I quoted earlier today.
Am I not understanding something here?
Bill
'86 V12 vdP

–
britirn
West Covina, California, United States
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Wm_de_Creeft · April 11, 2012, 5:57am

Thanks…

I’m just looking for general knowledge for now…just saw some questions that interested me; my '86 Canadian v12 vpP is standard…no parts added but a few removed and it’s been doing fine now.
Some statements made about v12 's and trannys that have me looking for details, but I don’t have the answers yet for a few more days.
Thanks, again.
Bill
Alaska
V12 '86 vdp
'71 lump (383 and 4bbl.)On Apr 10, 2012, at 8:38 PM, britirn wrote:

In reply to a message from Bill de Creeft sent Sat 7 Apr 2012:

No one seems to have mentioned that the 4L80E is an electronic
tranny youll need a controller/ ecu for it not to mention the MAP
sensor wiring and TPS signal to have it run/work properly. Just
thought I should mention it. Look at the Schematics on Captain
Jaguar Cat House for it.:^) Cheers

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !

Nev.W · April 12, 2012, 12:58am

In reply to a message from Bill de Creeft sent Tue 10 Apr 2012:

I haven’t put this to the test, but in theory if you are using a
Megasquirt ECU it can also control an electronic trans. I suspect
this would also apply to many other aftermarket ECU’s–
The original message included these comments:

No one seems to have mentioned that the 4L80E is an electronic
tranny youll need a controller/ ecu for it not to mention the MAP
sensor wiring and TPS signal to have it run/work properly. Just

–
Neville S1 XJ12, Megasquirt ECU
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Arnoud · April 12, 2012, 6:41pm

In reply to a message from britirn sent Tue 10 Apr 2012:

you can get a kit which turns your 4L80E into a full manual
tranny without any electonics. There’s one company that
makes a 6 speed version of the 4L80E. I do wonder if the
XJR-6 version differs from the V12 one (ECU or otherwise;
externally they are identical). I have 6.0 V12 from an X305
and a 4L80E from an XJR-6…–
The original message included these comments:

No one seems to have mentioned that the 4L80E is an electronic
tranny youll need a controller/ ecu for it not to mention the MAP
sensor wiring and TPS signal to have it run/work properly. Just

–
Arnoud, XJ6C 4.0, XJS Convt. 4.0 S/C 5-sp
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Dr_Chadbourn_Bolles1 · April 12, 2012, 8:58pm

In reply to a message from Arnoud sent Thu 12 Apr 2012:

Arnoud, from whom, a name please.–
The original message included these comments:

you can get a kit which turns your 4L80E into a full manual
tranny without any electonics. There’s one company that
makes a 6 speed version of the 4L80E. I do wonder if the

–
Dr. Chadbourn Bolles, JaguarXJ_S@Yahoo.com
Leesville, SC, United States
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Arnoud · April 12, 2012, 10:29pm

In reply to a message from Dr. Chadbourn Bolles sent Thu 12 Apr 2012:

if you insist;)
Performance Automotive Transmission Center. Look for
‘‘Quadzilla Shift Kit’’
TCI do the 6 speeder:
Search results for: 'tc transmission packages' - TCI® Auto
but I’m not sure if you can buy thatt as a kit.–
The original message included these comments:

Arnoud, from whom, a name please.

–
Arnoud, XJ6C 4.0, XJS Convt. 4.0 S/C 5-sp
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Doug_Dwyer · April 13, 2012, 1:10pm

I do wonder if the
XJR-6 version differs from the V12 one

As installed in the X300 sedans, they’re identical. Same valve bodies, same
solenoids, etc. Only the output flange is different.

(ECU or otherwise;
externally they are identical). I have 6.0 V12 from an X305
and a 4L80E from an XJR-6…

The ECUs carry a different part number suffix, “----CA” versus “----CB” or
something like that. Not sure what the exact difference is. I suspect it’s
just some minor tweaking of shift points.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !From: “Arnoud” cooper997@gmail.com

Arnoud · April 13, 2012, 4:39pm

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Fri 13 Apr 2012:

thanks Doug,

typical; why on earth is the output flange different? Sounds
like the good old BL parts bin days:'‘we have a couple of
these left and don’t want to throw them away ‘coz they cost
money to make; any ideas what to do with them?’’–
The original message included these comments:

solenoids, etc. Only the output flange is different.

–
Arnoud, XJ6C 4.0, XJS Convt. 4.0 S/C 5-sp
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Doug_Dwyer · April 13, 2012, 4:50pm

Beyond momentary musings I long ago gave up efforts at unraveling Jaguar
mysteries

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

typical; why on earth is the output flange different?

Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !From: “Arnoud” cooper997@gmail.com

PeterCrespin · April 14, 2012, 9:16am

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Fri 13 Apr 2012:

Possibly more fundamental language differences - how many Italians
do you know who can speak Japanese?

The XJ81 tranny ECU has to talk to Magneti Merelli engine
management, whereas the X305 must talk to Nippon Denso circuits

Arrividerci sayonara

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

something like that. Not sure what the exact difference is. I suspect it’s
just some minor tweaking of shift points.

–
1E75339 66 D, 1E33100 66 FHC, 1R7977 69 OTS, 1R9720 69OTS
Cambridge, United Kingdom
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ronbros · April 14, 2012, 2:18pm

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Sat 14 Apr 2012:

Peter,YOU FUNNY!–
The original message included these comments:

Arrividerci sayonara
Pete

–
Ronbros
daytona fl. / Austin TX., United States
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FeloniusCracker · September 28, 2020, 2:57am

Does anybody here know of a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission transmission that is a direct fit for a 6.0 Jag V12?

Cheers,

Bert

FeloniusCracker · September 28, 2020, 3:10am

Does anybody here know of a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission transmission that is a direct fit for a 6.0 Jag V12?

Cheers,

Bert

Andy_Broadbent · September 28, 2020, 6:11am

Drivenman bell housing & a TKO 500/600 OR a Simply Performance adaptor plate & an ex-3.6 XJS Getrag 265 complete with bell housing.

Rgds.

Andy.

PeterCrespin · September 28, 2020, 12:17pm

Guten Tag Norbert

As Andy says, but the V12 doesn’t really need six speeds. It hardly needs five speeds - the big improvement
is from torque convertor to clutch.

After 1989/90 Jaguar used the stronger 290 Getrag with integral bell on the manual cars including the XJR, but you don’t say which 6.0L: mit oder ohne Zündverteiler?

CosmoXL · September 28, 2020, 1:03pm

I know of 3 “official” Jaguar 6.0L engines:
JaguarSport 6.0L developed by TWR, Lucas distributor, Zytek ECU, single coil - fitted to the XJR-S
Jaguar 6.0L, Marelli distributor and ECU, twin coils - fitted to XJS and XJ12
Jaguar 6.0L, Nippon Denso ECU, no distributor, 6 pack coil-on-plug - fitted only to the XJ12

Other 6.0L special variants may have been produced by TWR, Lister, …