I have a 1/2 ton hoist that I plan to use to remove the
engine and transmission from my E S3.
Can any one tell me what the combined weight of the engine
and auto box is ?
Thanks … Ole–
Ole-XKE1974
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Ole-XKE1974 sent Thu 5 Dec 2013:
I used a one ton hoist for my XJ-S. No problems. I think it is
about 750 #
Stephen–
The original message included these comments:
I have a 1/2 ton hoist that I plan to use to remove the
engine and transmission from my E S3.
Can any one tell me what the combined weight of the engine
and auto box is ?
Thanks … Ole
–
dizmando
West Jefferson Hills PA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Ole-XKE1974 sent Thu 5 Dec 2013:
Hi Ole
The engine is 80lbs more than the XK and depending which
trans you will be on the limit or over with that crane,
depending on how far you extend it.
Remember too that it’s not just a question of lift but
balance. When I lifted a 93 XJ81 engine and 4L80E I had to
hang my 220 lbs off my big crane to keep it from grounding
by toppling. I only had to lift it off a trolley and into
a trailer but taking it out of a car would have been
beyond me I think. The cast-iron BW is a very heavy trans
and probably around the same as the bulkier alloy 4L80E. I
think you came round in a Merc sedan not a truck but you
can borrow my crane if you can move it, or cover me to
bring it in the Buick?
Pete–
1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
I always assume 350kg for the engine.
General consensus from the list is 680lbs (or 310kg).
The factory claimed 272kg on the test bench and 302.2 kg installed. I
suspect they were ever optimistic on the numbers.
Kg to lb, multiply by 2.20460
Rgds
Mark
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
To be clear, that is the engine only. I have no idea about the transmission.-----Original Message-----
I always assume 350kg for the engine.
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Ole-XKE1974 sent Thu 5 Dec 2013:
If your removing both a once then you have 7ft of suspended
swinging weight.
Approx. 350kg for the engine and a good 100kg for the trans.
Having lifted a spare V12. I used a 2 Ton lift. As you need to
lengthen your ‘’ boom’’ because of the length of the engine.
Personally I would split them and do the lift separately or get a
larger capacity lift.
You have to keep the drinking hand for the celebration on
completion of your project.
Hope this helps
Elf–
The original message included these comments:
I have a 1/2 ton hoist that I plan to use to remove the
engine and transmission from my E S3.
Can any one tell me what the combined weight of the engine
and auto box is ?
Thanks … Ole
–
89 xj-s japanese spec / 79/86 fully restored with upgrades.
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Elfinator sent Thu 5 Dec 2013:
Thanks to all for chiming in. Especially Pete for offering
me to borrow his crane.
I have a hoist (endless chain gear thingie) that will handle
500Kg, which should be OK.
The next step for me is to decide if I hang it from the
rafters, build a steel beam contraption that will allow the
hoist to move in two / four directions or use a ‘‘cherry picker’’.
Thanks again to all, I am now wiser …–
Ole-XKE1974
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Ole-XKE1974 sent Fri 6 Dec 2013:
…and safer. Good luck.
Pete–
The original message included these comments:
Thanks again to all, I am now wiser …
–
1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Elfinator sent Thu 5 Dec 2013:
My 10 cents worth on this is that you are beyond the
reasonable working limits of your equipment
To pull the motor and the tranny together you will need a
fully extended boom and an engine leveler that can attain an
angle of 45 degrees
When people make reference to engine weight, the number
refer to a stripped down engine, not one that is fully
dressed and full of oil
I have a 2 ton boom, but when fully extended will only lift
1 ton. I would hazard to guess that a fully dressed engine
with the tranny connected and full of fluids will be pushing
the 1500# mark
Generally speaking, you never want to exceed an 80% loading
factor on anything, so a 1 ton lifting capacity should only
really lift 1600#
The lifting is one thing, physically moving it around, ie:
out of the car can put sideways movement on the boom. This
can bend the boom. I know this because I bent mine
The problem with all of this is the engine leveler, which
are not big enough to lift a v12 engine properly, as the
lifting chains will bind against the motor
To pull the whole unit out, the car will be 18’’ in the air
on jack stands, otherwise the tranny will hit the ground as
you angle it out, and this is after the rads have been removed
So, say 1500# of weight, swinging on a under-rated engine
leveler 7’ in the air using an inadequate engine hoist is
actually a pretty scary concept in my books.
And you ASSUME that all of the welds and all of the
components actually meet spec. An interesting concept when
using offshore steel
Once you get it out and over the car, it has to be put
somewhere, not something you just rest on the ground, you
will do damage, so think about what you are going to do with
it after its pulled
IMHO, you are on the edge, but its up to you to determine
the amount of risk you wish to assume. Stand clear and
expect it to break loose. If you are successful, very good,
if not then you had fair warning.
Doug Harper–
The original message included these comments:
Approx. 350kg for the engine and a good 100kg for the trans.
Having lifted a spare V12. I used a 2 Ton lift. As you need to
lengthen your ‘’ boom’’ because of the length of the engine.
Personally I would split them and do the lift separately or get a
larger capacity lift.
completion of your project.
–
1987 XJ-S, 1988 XJ-S Tremec TK500. AJ6 Torque kit
Toronto, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
My 10 cents worth on this is that you are beyond the
reasonable working limits of your equipment
I did this job once, and he’s got a point. It’s worth remembering
that the typical engine hoist was designed with the cast iron V8 in
mind, and the Jaguar V12 is both heavier and longer than a V8. If
you’re not exceeding the design limits, you’re at least very close.
That said, on the hoist I used, each hole you could connect the
chains was clearly marked indicating the weight limits when using
that hole. As long as you’ve got capacity of 1000 pounds or more,
you’re good for the weight limits. That generally means the far hole
is off limits, its capacity is typically 500 pounds. If there’s a
hole between those, say 750, that’s marginal but will probably work.
The problem of moving the swinging engine/transmission assembly once
lifted above the car is serious. The hoist I used had steel wheels –
I think they all do – and with that much weight they do NOT want to
roll smoothly across a concrete floor. The smallest grain of sand on
the floor stops a wheel and the whole thing wants to flip over, which
would be VERY bad. I highly recommend you plan to lift the engine
above the car and then move the CAR. I didn’t, the arrangement I had
set up didn’t permit moving the car, but I really wished I had
planned to. Once the engine is high enough, just roll the car outta
the way. Then you can lower the hoist so that the
engine/transmission is only a foot or two above the ground, and THEN
you can roll the hoist around with far less inclination to tip over.
– Kirbert
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !On 12 Dec 2013 at 6:23, Repairman wrote:
In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Thu 12 Dec 2013:
Kirby,
The whole problem with this situation is that a lot of
people are woefully underfunded and blindly go forward not
thinking through the situation.
‘‘it’s not going to happen to me’’ syndrome. uhuh.
You need a big honkin hoist to pull a fully dressed V-12, I
got the biggest I could find, a NAPA 650$ hoist. It has legs
about 7 feet long in order to keep the center of gravity
between the legs. If you move the center of gravity outside
the legs, over she goes.
Your’re spot on with the rolling of the unit on the floor,
thats where you can really get it swinging and if it swings
and hits your car that’s on 10 cent jack stands get out of
the way fast. Remember kinetic energy is 0.5mv**2
The idea of moving the car while the motor is 7 feet in the
the air is a VERY bad idea. The amount of time it takes to
jack up and drop a car off the stands is considerable and
you do this in close proximity to the motor. You want to
reduce the air time of that motor and not leave it hanging
any longer than it has to.
Telling this guy that a 750-1000# lifting capacity is ok is
waaaaaaay out of line, the dressed motor weight plus tranny
is OVER 1000# and you need a margin of error for stupidity
and bad equipment.
Read what I typed again Kirby, you think I’m doing this for
my ego or something ? heck no, jerking about with a V12
engine is serious dangerous stuff
I respect most of what you say, but you are on the wrong
page on this subject and giving dangerous advice.
Some people should just stay with pulling spark plugs and
changing the oil, not pulling V12 motors.–
1987 XJ-S, 1988 XJ-S Tremec TK500. AJ6 Torque kit
Toronto, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Repairman sent Thu 12 Dec 2013:
Having done this job, I can say without hesitation, I would
want the heaviest hoist I could find; at least 1500 lb or
better, preferably 2000+.
Don’t forget that this hoist acts a spring with the
engine/trans attached, and the engine/trans can bounce a
fair (read: scary) bit as you are moving the hoist. That’s
the reason (among others) that you want the high capacity.
Static load ratings are one thing, but this whole deal has
a bit of dynamic load to it also.
And height: get lots of lifting height. If you are doing
this in a garage, be sure you can clear things well above
the car.
Lastly, I have seen guys who try to approach this job
without also using an engine leveler. Don’t even try; you
will only get part way through before you have to run to
the store to buy one. Get it up front, you can’t do this
without some sort of level control.
I took this engine/trans out, and installed the
engine+manual box, alone. Can be done safely, but needs
the right equipment, patience, and good judgment.
-M–
Mike, 1990 5.3 XJS Conv., 5-speed, SE-ECU, TT Extractors
Lakewood, OH, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
Good discussion about the hazards and problems of engine removal.
FWIW…
When I pull an engine I separate the trans. The trans is either removed
entirely or left in place, depending on the situation. Generally, automatic
transmissions I leave in place. Manual boxes are removed.
Over the years I’ve noticed that many DIYers absolutely insist on removing
both as a unit even when it’s perfectly plausible, safer, and actually
easier, to pull only the engine.
However…
Since we’re talking about an E-type the options might be limited. I
think there’s no choice but to remove them together. Is that correct?
Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Pacific Northwest USA
1995 XJR
Personally I would split them and do the lift separately or get a
larger capacity lift.
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !From: “Elfinator” monster@paradise.net.nz
Having done this without a lift, and with it, on an XJ6 (V12 conversion) there is another option, I think. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you could separate the engine from the transmission BEFORE taking the engine out of the car. Just be sure to support the rear of the engine while taking out the transmission, and use four jack stands to give you the desired space underneath the car. I know the service manual doesn’t recommend this on the XJ6, and maybe it says to take them out as a unit on the XJS as well but I’ve done it a lot on the XJ6 with no problems. Easier than it looked. I wrap the wheels of my lift with old tyre tread. Rolls nicely even in grass.
I have no Jags now 
Mario James
Kingston, Jamaica.Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from LIME.
-----Original Message-----
From: “mike90” mcgawma@yahoo.com
Sender: owner-v12-engine@jag-lovers.org
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 03:28:45
To: v12-engine@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [v12-engine] Weight of the V12 engine and transmission
In reply to a message from Repairman sent Thu 12 Dec 2013:
Having done this job, I can say without hesitation, I would
want the heaviest hoist I could find; at least 1500 lb or
better, preferably 2000+.
Don’t forget that this hoist acts a spring with the
engine/trans attached, and the engine/trans can bounce a
fair (read: scary) bit as you are moving the hoist. That’s
the reason (among others) that you want the high capacity.
Static load ratings are one thing, but this whole deal has
a bit of dynamic load to it also.
And height: get lots of lifting height. If you are doing
this in a garage, be sure you can clear things well above
the car.
Lastly, I have seen guys who try to approach this job
without also using an engine leveler. Don’t even try; you
will only get part way through before you have to run to
the store to buy one. Get it up front, you can’t do this
without some sort of level control.
I took this engine/trans out, and installed the
engine+manual box, alone. Can be done safely, but needs
the right equipment, patience, and good judgment.
Mike, 1990 5.3 XJS Conv., 5-speed, SE-ECU, TT Extractors
Lakewood, OH, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
V+"¶Ø^%¨¢÷«²&z y«a¶Úÿ0¨%¢÷«²à~ÞÅÈx,z»âqëÚÞ²«që"Énv)à>- [ºk½éí&«ËðéÝj³§.)Þ$±©ÝÞ
Over the years I’ve noticed that many DIYers absolutely insist on
removing both as a unit even when it’s perfectly plausible, safer, and
actually easier, to pull only the engine.
When they built the cars on the production line, the engine and
transmission went in together – up from below, I believe.
– Kirbert
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !On 13 Dec 2013 at 6:50, Doug Dwyer wrote:
Lastly, I have seen guys who try to approach this job
without also using an engine leveler.
I did this job without an engine leveler. It CAN be done, but I sure
wish I had had one! The alternative is to be doing a lot of shoving
while lifting to A) get the tail end DOWN as it’s coming out of the
tunnel, and then B) get the tail end UP to clear the front of the car
as the entire engine and stand are rolled away from it.
– Kirbert
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !On 13 Dec 2013 at 3:28, mike90 wrote:
In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Thu 12 Dec 2013:
A foot or two? Even for the XK6 I move Jag stuff inches
off the ground. The 6L and 4L80E were almost skimming the
floor, on the basis that when/if the worst happens,
nothing much happens.
Losing the balance with even my big crane was a non-event
with the powertrain a very few inches high. The steel
wheels at the far end took the strain but you could heR
even my big lift creaking. This is a lift that dismantles
but even so the parts are at my limit for lifting snd I’m
a big guy, so a skinny HF lift has no chance. ditto an HF
engine stand. Even one of the very big castors at the pump
end distorted enough for the solid tire’s tread to kiss
the pivot above at snag the rolling action slightly. It
was probably distorted before I got the used lift but only
showed up when this combo had to be lifted.
I even swept the crappy barn concrete of all small stones
etc so that if it did settle on a thin alloy sump casting
it wouldn’t crack of puncture on the point loading.
Pete–
1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Fri 13 Dec 2013:
All V12 XJSs had their engine and transmission installed as
a unit from above. I believe, but unlike the V12 have no
factory photo to prove it, that all inline 6s also were
installed from above.
How V12s were fitted to the saloons I have no knowledge of.–
The original message included these comments:
When they built the cars on the production line, the engine and
transmission went in together – up from below, I believe.
–
HE V12
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from JagJean sent Sun 15 Dec 2013:
Great insight, comments, advise and experiences - thanks.
Here’s what my plan is so far.
I have a four post lift.
I have an attic in my garage.
I have a 1/2 ton endless chain hoist.
Once I determine the position of the car on the lift, I
will make one big or two smaller holes in the attic
floor/garage ceiling. Place an 8-10 foot long H-beam
across the attic floor joists and hang the hoist in chains
from the H-beam through the hole(s) in the floor.
With an engine leveler on the hoist pull the engine from
the car while moving the car backwards on the lift until
the engine is clear of the car. Lower the engine with auto
transmission onto a dolly rated at 1000 pounds and wheel it
clear of the lift to a working position.
I considered removing the engine and gearbox from below,
but it looks as if the frame isn’t wide enough to let the
engine out that way. It should be possible to do it, if
the frame could be removed while the engine is supported
from below.–
Ole-XKE1974
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Fri 13 Dec 2013:
I’ve done this on an E-type…There is only one way to remove
and install a V-12. From above. And with the transmission
bolted up to the engine. There’s just no other way.–
The original message included these comments:
When they built the cars on the production line, the engine and
transmission went in together – up from below, I believe.
–
nick 55
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !