Now we are over the stubborn head, on to the next problem.
All liners out except 5B.
I have 2 M10 studs pulling it up and after 20 minutes work it lifted 5 or 6mm.
Now it is stuck, with another 100mm to go.
The 2 original M10 mild steel studs had their threads stripped, so now I have 316 SS studs.
The nut/stud combination is at its limit, any more torque and I know the nut or stud will strip.
I have a table telling me an M10 bolt can clamp from 2,200lbs to 9,500lbs depending on its grade.
My guess is that there is at least 2 tons of force applied to pull that liner.
That tar like substance in the liner bore is very, very sticky.
When pulling liners you might think as you extract more of it from the bore the force needed gets less.
Wrong ! The force is pretty much constant all the way to the last gasp which is not what you expect.
I put 6 of the liners in a tub of diesel fuel to cover the bottom half of the liners. It certainly cleaned up most of the tar.
One of the liners was cleaned up around the bottom of the skirt on a wire brush wheel. The liner was lined up on a bore and just allowed to sink down under its own weight. It fell 5mm into the bore and stuck.
I casually grabbed it and pulled - no effect. It took 5 minutes of wiggling and lightly tapping side to side with a hammer to get it back out. That tar residue in the bore is a menace. The slip fit clearance is a thou or two, so there is no chance you can get any penetrant down there. Maybe if you put the block in a tank of agressive solvent for 5 years you might get a result.
Back to 5B. I will buy an M16 SS threaded rod and make new studs for my liner extraction plate.
That will give me 2.5 times more force on the liner.
I thought about that.
But it is only up 5mm out of a total 100mm and the tar is very sticky.
I could be dead and buried before that liner comes out just hauling on a couple of M10 studs.
It’s a bit counterintuitive: when I worked on rusty old VW exhaust nuts, I would do that: soak in NAPA Knocker’er Loose (basically diesel and ATF), then, gently crack it towards off: then more penetrant, tighten the nut, then back off, rinse, repeat.
Richard is the block completely stripped out? I’d so you could try gently heating the block around the liner?
We used to put the whole block in a trich bath upside down and hear the old liners crashing into the bottom of the tank!
Nigel,
Drycleaner shops use trico if I recall correctly.
A tank of that stuff will not be easy to come by.
Last V12 stripped and rebuilt, the block was sent out for tanking.
Not sure what solvent they used but it sure cleaned up the block to be sparkling clean.
Problem is, if I send the block there again I doubt it will be long enough in the tank to get the stubborn liner out.
Hi Richard
I see. The trichloroethelyne we used was banned whilst I was still at Jaguar.we then used Chlorothene VG
Wasn’t a good a degreaser but it still got things hot at ann even temperature which was ideal for this purpose! It’s not easy I know but maybe a little heat might help? From a hot air gun maybe? But it would be easier with two pairs of hands so you could keep the heat in whilst extracting
Best Regards
Nigel Boycott
There is a lot of aluminium to heat up, and the liner will heat up as well.
I think it will need to be up around 200deg C to make any difference.
That is perhaps needing a 5kW heater, or more.
There is no guarantee 200deg C would increase the slip fit clearance by much.
Then again, the real benefit would be if the heat made the tar more liquid and less sticky.
The liner is up about 15mm so far but is now totally stuck using M10 nuts and studs.
I tried knocking it back down, but it would take a mighty big hammer to shift it.
Bigger studs is the only way to go.
Does sounds really tight! Just hope it’s not picking up on the block!
I suppose you’ve tried something to cool the liner? I believe loctite a freeze spray? I’ve used it before to get manifold studs out of XK 140 heads.
Best Regards
Nigel Boycott
Richard
What about throwing a couple of hands full,of ice cubes down the liner to chill the cast iron…might make a bit of difference…the alloy is a great conductor and won’t chill as much as the liner…might be worth a shot
Matt
That might help Matt.
Or it might make the tar more viscous !
This has not been a spectacular day for pulling the liner.
I went around to the local hardware store this morning and bought 5/8 BSW threaded rod.
Here I digress. In spite of Australia being metric for 40 years, and in theory nothing should be made here unless it is metric head to foot ( not that we do make much anymore - Asian countries do that for us ) there are many hardware items available in BSW, BSP and similar odd threads. Mostly made in China, of course.
The 5/8 studs can get me up around 5 tons or more of force. However, soon after applying torque to the nuts the wood blocks that support the drawbar across the liner just split. They are pine blocks. So I need to get a piece of hardwood for stronger blocks or weld up a steel contraption as a substitute.
The other liners came out without extraordinary effort, so perhaps it is just the tar. How about rigging a plug/blanking disc to the bottom, filling the liner with a fluid, and using an immersion heater?
100C isn’t very hot, but it might make enough difference.
Along a similar vein, is it possible to blank off the bottom of the bore and fill the void with a (heated)solution of something which dissolves the tar? Caustic, simple green, Detergent ATF?
Patience and chemistry trump brute force a lot of the time, and the cleanup is usually easier as there’s no blood or stripped threads to deal with afterwards.
This morning changed the splintered wood blocks for fresh ones.
They are pine, but cut so the force is along the grain, not across it.
Also added aluminium packing pieces between block and the relatively narrow edge of the block they rest on to give more bearing area, much needed.
It took close to the limit of torque you can apply on the 5/8 studs with that spanner, but it did move the liner.
From 15mm gap to 25mm gap in 10 minutes of work.
I heaved hard on the spanner and then there is a sudden cracking sound and the liner unsticks about 1mm at a time.
That tar almost outclasses Superglue. If anything like the other sticky liners it will take plenty of grunt right up to the bitter end.
I know it sounds intuitive that you can somehow dissolve that tar, but I seriously doubt anything works.
You are trying to get a solvent down a gap of 1 or 2 thou over 100mm in length. Perhaps if you could tank the whole block for a month in a very aggressive solvent there will be a benefit, but that is not too practical. It would be cheaper to dump the block and buy another 2nd hand engine.
I suspect this engine has liners far more reluctant than average to budge. Two liners almost fell out, the rest very tight plus this 5B being super tight. It must be something to do with the slip fit clearance. Possibly a very tight clearance prevents significant tar getting into it. The bores of the liners that fell out are quite clean. The sticky ones show a very dirty bore.
You might find it’s old hylomar? It was used at the factory for many years on the liner seat on the block. If somebody a bit careless fitted the pistons and liners maybe they got it on the sides of the liner and didn’t bother to wipe it off? Over the years, this could have evolved into what you’ve had to contend with?
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
18
Hylomar is blue, and it seems to remain blue for eternity. I think it also
remains gooey for eternity, so it wouldn’t have caused that much grief in liner
removal.
I have long recommended synthetic oil, and one reason is that it seems to
leave the inside of the engine much cleaner. If dino oil had been used in the
past and the engine has varnish inside, switching to synthetic seems to clean
the varnish off – but it takes quite a while. Since you never know when it’s
going to be necessary to strip it down and slide those liners out, you all
should switch to synthetic oil NOW.
BTW, the liners on my '83 weren’t THAT stuck, but they were pretty tight
thanks to some nimnul installing them with a thick coating of Permatex
Form-A-Gasket down the entire length of the skirt. The tool I made to pull
them didn’t involve any wood; I used 1/2" threaded rod and 1/2" thick steel
plate!
