Heh heh…amen to that!!! Every single liner in my block was reluctant to part company with the bottom spigot. I had to wallop the bottom edge with a 50mm aluminium bar and keep dressing the edge in contact with the bottom lip of the liner as it slowly drifted up the spigot in the block. I ended up with one muscular arm and tingling fingers on the other hand!!!
How were you planning on getting them out?
Matt
Matt, I think you raised a question in this topic about wear marks on the big end top and bottom shells.
This morning I took out 6 pistons.
The shells showed varying wear marks on both shells, nothing conclusive.
No shell was badly scuffed or scored, just average type of wear you expect to see.
Last time I took liners out of the block I started with a drift which was a circular stepped steel plate turned up on my lathe.
I welded a rod onto it and used that to hammer liners out from below.
There were about 4 liners would not budge.
I made another stepped plate with a hole in the middle.
Using a 3/4" threaded rod and a cross brace on the top of the block that easily pulled them all out.
Richard
Yes…I was interested to know if there was a pattern in the wear. I wondered if the long inlet pipe to the oil pump effectively starves the bearings of oil on start up because the pipe will empty out down to the oil level in the sump…then the high compression could wear the top shell until the oil film gets established.
But your investigation doesn’t show this wear pattern.
The threaded extractor is definitely a better method than the BFH !!!
Thanks for the feedback
Regards
Matt
NigelplugMay 16
Richard
S&G Barratt recently had a very good offer on HE V12 heads the ones I got even had new tappet blocks. Both arrived in OE factory boxes and wrapped in wax paper! I think they were around £420.00 for the pair?
Well Nigel, you got a bargain if they were GBP420 the pair.
They do have head pairs without tappet blocks for abpout GBP420.
After two attempts finally had a reply from SNG, as follows:
EBC2456# and EBC2457# are both supplied minus the tappet blocks. If you order the genuine Jaguar versions they do include the tappet blocks, however they are more expensive.
So Nigel gets the genuine Jaguar version with tappet blocks.
The rest of us get the ( non genuine ? ) version without for the same price.
I can’t imagine SNG really mean non genuine.
I will go over to SNG while in UK and buy a pair for shipping back to Oz.
That will fix the head problem at a reasonable price.
Now for the next problem, mentioned before. I need a timing cover and the rectangular baffle around the oil pickup.
10 years ago the local Jag parts supplier had 5 or 6 pre HE V12s sitting in their warehouse with no sale likely. They gave me one so I could take off a few accessories needed at the time. From that I did keep all the valve shims and a number of smaller bits and pieces. There must be hundreds of covers and baffles zipped up in old engines, but finding ones unzipped is a greater challenge.
Anybody have any ideas to find them ?
It was someone I know who bought said cylinder heads. Maybe at that point no one had checked what was in the boxes! As the two I fitted for him were in boxes that were sealed at the factory and had never been opened since! They were coated in the standard horrible thick grease which works well, but can be a swine to get off!
I’ll see if I can help with the baffle and timing cover when you’re over here?
Cosmoline!!! WWII GI special concoction.
Carl
o.k. Nigel,
Where do you hang out in the UK ?
Today removed the nuts on the big end caps, getting ready to lift the crankshaft.
A couple of nuts were were really tight all the way, I can see one showed a bit of rust on the matching stud.
Rust ! How did that get there ?
Another stud shows signs of the thread partly galling.
Was it over torqued in the factory ?
Minor things in the overall situation.
Hi Richard
I’m in South Leicestershire which is in the Midlands. My phone no is 07763491122 I’d be pleased to meet you!
Ring me beforehand to make sure I’m around and I’ll give you the full address.
It’s quite hard to find unless you know the area well? That’s the way we like it for security reasons!
The rust you mentioned comes up the stud from the water gallery in the block. This is because there is no solid seal on the head gasket around the studs. The transition fit wet liners seal around the fire ring but the only hard contacting studs are the two at either end of the head and the inner and outer 3/8" studs.
If you are over here in the UK, I have these sitting in the loft somewhere.
kind regards
Marek
Nigel,
Lived in Rutland once, S. Leics close by.
I will call when in Notts about 2 weeks from now.
The stud I was talking about is on the big end cap - you don’t expect water or rust there !
Marek,
Sounds encouraging and where in UK would you be found ?
I’m near Guildford.
You can pm me if need be.
kind regards
Marek
Marek,
We do fly out of LHR late August, but with regret there will be no time for deviating to Guildford on the way.
Might still be interested in the cover and baffle if no luck in the midlands.
Hi Richard
Look forward to meeting you! I’ve seen rust on those studs before but normally only in an engine that’s Attis around for a long time and been the victim of condensation!
Best Regards
Nigel Boycott
Back to work on the V12, now the heads are off.
Pulled the pistons and con rods.
One pounded with a screw or something dropped into the cylinder.
Photo attached.
One just slightly scored with part of the screw debris.
One has the top compression ring very badly stuck in the groove.
The rest of the rings free and easy.
So far trying to prise the stuck ring out by working something into the small ring gap has done nothing.
I have put the piston into a small tub of diesel fuel.
Carbon is not easily soluble so not sure that will do much good, but better than nothing.
I can think of maybe trying to get a razor blade between ring and groove to free it.
Anybody got any better suggestion ?
One piston had a retaining circlip for the gudgeon ( wrist ) pin missing.
Yes, really ! It could not have just dropped out anytime.
Luckily the pin did not move sideways to score the liner.
I seriously doubt this happened in the factory.
There are signs this engine was worked over by somebody in a hurry, or lacking money, or just plain stupid.
All the same it will get rebuilt as good as new.
Only major thing left is to pull the liners. So far they look o.k.
I used a high pressure hose on the block to clean out the water jacket.
The two rear cylinders are dead ended for coolant flow so they had tons of hard sludge around the liners.
I would hate to try and clean a jacket like this with the engine still in the car.
The hose did not get all the baked on dirty oil off the block both inside and out.
Silicon spray was used on all the studs and liners and anything ferrous to protect it for a month or two.
The local auto machine shop will hone the liners and linish the crank for me.
Last time this was done 10 years ago they did not have a tank big enough to take a V12 block.
I might have to take the block to the same shop used last time to tank it for getting rid of the baked on oil.
Afterwards the block looks like it is sitting on the Jaguar production line.
Questions:
-
Of the 12 pistons roughly half have the pin floating in the big end bush, and half have the pin floating in the piston.
I can see the tolerance between pin and both piston and bush is pretty tight, so tight hard to imagine a film of oil can get in there. No sign of any wear in either case.
The same thing on both the pre HE and HE V12s I rebuilt before.
Any reason for this ? You would think the design was for the pin to float in either one or the other and not be arbitrary. -
Does anybody have a complete list of items needed for a total V12 rebuild ?
It is possible to work through the parts manual and make a list, but a bit like reinventing the wheel.
A comprehensive list would be handy, and you simply leave out parts you know can be reused. -
There is a small number of items on the engine that are damaged but still usable if need be.
However, if there is anybody with a torn down engine they have no plan to rebuild let me know.
A bit of a long shot I know, you do not spend hours on end pulling one of these things apart for the sheer pleasure of it.
Generally there is a plan to rebuild - but now and again . . . . . .
The main damage is to one of the heads, so I will get a new pair from SNG, not too expensive.
Removing all the studs from the old heads to transfer to the new ones will be fun.
Hi Richard
Good to here from you lm just finishing a 6.0litre V12.
Is the engine you’re doing a six litre or 5.3? If it’s a six litre the rings are NLA but you can get the ring grooves machined to take 5.3 rings.
Regarding the stuck rings you could try heating it up evenly in an oven.
I’ve cleaned them up and been able to the get “the boss” to allow me to do this. They may still need you to get a sharpened masonary nail into the gap where the ends meet and tap firmly this will some times make them surrender!
It peas really nice to meet up with you and hope you enjoyed your holiday up here
I haven’t ever created s spreadsheet with a complete listing of the engine parts, I have one for the 4.2 XK engine. But generally the V12 is such a good design the number of parts you need generally is not too bad to do create from the parts book! Biggest pain is the studs.
I use a company local to me to Acid dip all heads and blocks and then vapour blast afterwards.
Best Regards
Nigel Boycott
Nigel, it is a 5.3L.
I got the stuck ring out.
After trying one or two things without success to prise apart the small ring gap, I found the tough steel shank of a 5/32 pop rivet just right. They have the right shape of point on the end of the shank, and the right diameter to fit neatly in the groove. 30 seconds and application of a dozen light hammer blows and problem fixed.
All the gudgeon pins are out of the pistons. One was really sticky in both piston and small end bush, and obviously had no. wear. Quite amazing, you would think that binding action would create heat and rapid wear until it became a bit more sloppy and an oil film could penetrate.
Many years ago, I had an Xk head that was so stuck, I was able to START THE ENGINE, with no nuts holding it down!!
Took me weeks of work, car hanging from the head, to get it off.
Jump in and drive it around town! Once you get far enough from the house,
that head’ll come loose!
Seriously, you had the head nuts off and still had the carbs in place and the
fuel lines hooked up, spark plugs in and connected?
Was it the gasket holding it in place, or the studs stuck in the holes?
– Kirbert
Yes…!!! 
I ran it w/o coolant, and after about 600 revs, it popped it sorta loose…still took me a loooong time, plus, ultimately I had to weld nuts onto each stud, after soaking for weeks with KnockerLoose, and slowly, painfully turning each one out.
Unless it is a very special XK engine, or any other Jag engine, if things are that bad better to look around for another 2nd hand engine. In UK and U.S.A. no shortage of engines to choose from.
The 2nd hand V12 I am rebuilding was not a good starting point. I could see it had not been well cared for, but down here 2nd hand HE engines are rare, we get no choice. Both heads needed so much work I will buy new ones from SNG Barratt and luckily they are a reasonable price.
It would have been better to pay the $1000 freight and bring one in from UK where there is plenty of choice and more likelihood of getting a good one.