Welcome to hell(long w/ photos) Series 1 xj6 core plugs corrosion head studs

Demian · June 10, 2018, 4:02am

Look at this madness. Only one who has been there can appreciate.

These little holes are the stuff of nightmares.
The closer i looked at each, especially exhaust side core plug holes, hypnotically drawn in attempting to clean and analyze i expect Dante to emerge from the 7th circle.

I may very well spam each xk engine car forum to remind everyone. I don’t care what they say. Too important.

This stuff causes 80%+ of xk motor troubles, I am convinced.

I don’t care how good the apparent condition of car/motor, if this has not been done during your ownership or PO hasn’t specifically stated such, expect this. Hope for better, but expect this…

Expect the core passages to be filled with sand, goop, and pure evil…

My car appeared well cared for, sat for a very long time, but miraculously well preserved.

Now damnit i already own another s1 xj6i hoped would be the one, which now has since become a bit of a talisman or parts aid for present one.

All my time at British and Jaguar shows over the years, never once anywhere have I ever seen a S1 XJ6.

The tires it came with barely kept together rolling off deluvery truck.
A great rust free time warp car with tires from company defunct since 70s per research!

My new one has P5 PIRELLI tires …those made specifically for Jaguar…dated 1980 and in perfect condition!
The car is ridiculously original.

Well, i have been away from all of this for years. Always was a jaguar guy, always owned one since my first car.

I know what they sound and feel like, what they need etc etc. No expert, whatever that is, but i always habe done my own work. Would never trust my cars with anyone else…especially as a perfectionist.

Upon arrival on trailer, seller knew nothing. I went on my gut going after sight unseen.(yeah i know)…and i was right. Thankfully.

A bit out of practice, this time i remembered adage, buy the seller, not the item.

Idle set super high, dangerosly so…shut off immediately and rolled it off trailer, let driver go…tuned and adjusted carbs, sounded perfect. No noises, hickups, nothing. Appeared very well preserved. Oil pressure, shifting, etc…charging…all lights working.

Drove around block once and parked it since.

Despite anythimg PO says or any gut feelings, i treat each car as if nothing’s ever been done.

Go through all front to back as matter of course without starting again.

I hoped to simply disassemble engine bay and paint/detail everything for most part.

Removed cam covers, all looked really good.
Apparently head gasket and head removed recently.

Oil leaks from cam covers made block and all a mess.

Zero rust amywhere or ever on this car.
Nevada car since 74, same owner.

Anyway all looked good once again. Coolant, oil dirty but ok. No smells, correct consistency…etc…

So, HERE WE GO…

…although water pump felt perfect. No slack, no noise, perfect movement, etc, i removed as hoses appeared old, and i wished to flush cooling system ad nauseum.

Wow… I could not have been more surprised and shocked. It appeared it was rescued from the Titanic.
I’ve never seen anything like it in all my years or all my cars, from mk2 to mk7, to s3 xj…you name it.

Purchased rebuilt unit from Terry’s.

Not only, but also found pump outlet completely plugged with hard, sand concrete like stuff.

Heart sank a bit.
Knew there was much more to uncover.

I had rebuilt carbs and other parts now wrapped up and awaiting reinstall.

Removed intake manifold.
Revealed a bit of corrosion damage at one port on block along with sandy congealed green goop.

This car’s been sitting a long damn time within that garage…

Tap water WILL MAKE SAND PEOPLE!
I REMEMBER AS KID THINKING DISTILLED H2O WAS EXCESSIVE, NO WAY … Can’t be a real thing.

Yes, chemistry is a thing!!

So, I remove exhaust manifolds, everything has come apart easily which again appeals to belief head recently serviced.

Remove starter as intended to go through it too…while I’m there.

Reveals completely corroded freeze plug(s).

Heater tube running length of block beneath intake manifold completely blocked and rusted internally.

As an important note…
Prior to all this upon initially removing water pump, i flushed and flushed and flushed…

It really wasnt bad. NO signs…Only initiall was there some rust colored water…

Back flushed every with way all afternooon regardless.
The water coming out potable it seemed.

So, nervous and considering whether i can continue with this project, procrastinating, i perform compression test.

Avoiding as it would be do or die time.

Car dead cold, sitting for months and never started since initial drive around back.

Compression was good really dry and upon sitting months, but inconclusive…well, 90 on #2, low on #3 too…
Thought ah shit…

But a bit of oil sent them to 150+.

Noticed blow by at intake for each however…the oil i dropped in for wet test.

Long to short, valve clearances …nothing…i mean nothing.
No clearance at intake tappets.

Newer markings and locking wire revealed it had head removed.

Leak test confirmed intake valves not closing…not burnt at all i believe per images, but maladjustment…who knows now
…a bit from dipstick tube…but a very faint echo really, nothing felt.

In addition, one pristine glop of that congealed sandy goop sitting at one exhaust port.

How the hell?
Only possible thought, crack at exhaust port? But nothing visible.
Nothing unable to be seen could pass that gravel goop through it.
Mystery.

Images taken w phone within ports reveal a lot of carbon on valves.

I must rebuild head … Have no idea what corrosion may exist on block/head.
No signs of head gasket issues however.

But it must be done. Head must be rebuilt.
I can do that. When will i ever have all stripped like this again?
No way i could let it go anyway, it’s begging to be done.

Anyway, again hesitating, i finally remove core plugs…

Welcome to hell…

That’s the exhaust side … The better side.

The intake…

Filled with mud, goop sand whatever…

The car has 44k on it…i believe it is original.
The car is that crazy original.

So, curiosity getting best of me, time to try and clean this out, see what I’m dealing with…

…be afraid…

They actually cleaned up well first attempt…but…

Exhaust

Intake

Now of course there is more to do cleaning addressing corrosion, but it will be blessing of gods if i can manage to remove these without snapping any.

Intake side down to pencil width on a couple.

Intend to take all time in world using corrosion killers, liquid wtench chemicals, acetone/trans fluid mix, torch heat and penetrant cycles, you name it…

But…

Suddenly feel i may have reached my burn out point here already, 2nd car in…
The s1 xj a dream car of mine, having owned most, i find it best of both worlds…perfect saloon, lifetime car…but…

I’m tired.

But i research helicoil and left hand drill bits, etc…may be doable.
Perhaps i need a break.

Anyway, any thoughts appreciated.

AND MAKE POINT TO CLEAN YOUR BLOCK PROPERLY REMOVING CORE PLUGS ASAP.

A NORMAL FLUSH WILL NOT DO IT no matter how long or any magic product.

This is cause of alnost all overheating issues on these motors.

As a final note, the original radiator looks great inside.

I simply hope no crack in block. If so, I’m done.
Can’t do that at this point in my life.

Hope for the best. I feel i may get lucky…but who the hell knows.

OTHER INTENDED LESSON, ONE REALLY CANNOT JUDGE ANYTHING FROM THE EXTERIOR.

Kind regards
TIA for any suggestions.

Demian · June 10, 2018, 5:05am

…to be continued…

Dun…dun…dun…(movie suspense sound)

awg · June 10, 2018, 5:17am

I have dismantled a few motors like that…is what happens when glycol is not renewed for many years

when you go to remove the studs, if more than 2 or 3 snap, the motor is usually not salvageable.

if only 1 or 2 break, here is what I have done

die grind the broken stub flush & smooth with base of block, via welch plug hole

2 centre punch broken stud very accurately

working thru the stud hole, using and old stud ground thinner, and quality drill bit is inserted into it, and drill out the stud…by all means a left hand bit!!..this may well spin it out
if NO…next step,heat the stud, with Oxy, Mapp, or Induction, and repeat with a larger drill bit
if that fails, you are looking at likely compromised female thread, from corrosion or damage, and the hole must be insert repaired or block junked

(or alternatively…as I have seen…BOLT the head to the block …for that hole only!

awg · June 10, 2018, 5:42am

yes, but if the threads are wrecked, it gets REALLY uneconomical

getting an insert in there is a major operation

having said that, I have only had to scrap one block for that reason, even with studs 3/4 corroded they usually will come out

sorry my editing is fkd, but i think u know what I mean

Demian · June 10, 2018, 5:43am

You feel lucky punk…well do ya?

Frank_Andersen · June 10, 2018, 7:17am

**

Helicoil relies on access for precision drilling and tapping, Damian - you better do some serious assessment before you start anything. As Tony says; if you cannot anchor studs it is reason enough to scrap the block…

It’s all by far the worst I have ever seen outside maritime archaeology. There has been no attempt to protect the cooling system against corrosion - and with the visible parts show that sort of corrosion; I wonder what the rest of the block’s insides looks like. Adding that the steep rise in compression in the ‘wet’ test implies serious bore issues…

As a challenge, or indeed a labour of great love; it may be viable. But honestly; your ardour would likely be better spent on a replacement block.

And while the reminder to be alert is pertinent; one would be very unlikely to find anything the like…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Demian · June 10, 2018, 8:11am

I hear you, thanks Frank.

Not uncommon however.

I’ve read of many others with seriously corroded studs as well, gunk and sand filled core plug holes…etc.

And as a note, once again the compression loss was due to intake valves for those 2 cylinders.
Thankfully. Otherwise I wouldn’t consider proceeding.

I’ve also read of others drillling broken studs out, etc. and all described above.
I’ve used helicoils before…

If helicoils don’t take, Time-Sert an option.
These things are not expensive.
Welding nut to stub also an option.

I can do it, I’m capable if it gets crazy, however indeed, labor of love dilemma.

Thought everyone would like to see.
Never came across photo of core plugs removed and madness within.

All my past cars were actually 3.4 or 3.8L never removed the core plugs from my EType…ignorance is bliss. Never an overheating problem.

The deciding factor will be what i see with head removed.

Could be intetesting if recoverable.

Thoughts greatly appreciated however.
Need to take a closer look though.
You may be right.

Best

Breen60 · June 10, 2018, 8:26am

Sorry to see this Demian. Makes me want to fly over and help! Our S1 was off the road for 23 years - fortunately for me I drained the block - still had to pull the head and change all the studs last year. Best of luck with it, Paul

Frank_Andersen · June 10, 2018, 8:29am

**
Anything is possible, Damian - the impossible just takes longer time…
**

awg · June 10, 2018, 8:47am

when I inserted studs last time, I sprayed the shaft with red 2 pac epoxy, then covered the whole thing, shaft and threads with copper slip.

(copperslip is very resistant to water)

I have inquired on this site before about the stud/block junction, as corrosion is a real killer AND the stud can easily wind out…when you dont want it to, ie trying to remove the head.

all that scum falls in the hole and the stud can now NOT be re-inserted, without sitting high

The standard advice is to wind the studs in “:finger tight”

I think next time, I would use a weak threadlocker suck as Loctite purple, with two purposes

a) prevent moisture permeating the thread area
b) holding the stud in place if nut needs to be removed (but still allowing easy stud removal)

I notice on a pro built engine, the head nuts are SLATHERED in copperslip

Demian · June 10, 2018, 8:48am

@Breen60: Thank you Mr. Breen.

@Frank_Andersen These cars…how do they dig into us so.
I just never say die.

residentalien · June 10, 2018, 10:06am

Not sure why Jaguar decided to put the head studs through the water ways , can only be a bad idea !
When I was doing a 64 3.8 engine rebuild , I removed the drain tap , and there was a wall of Orange sludge behind it , I removed the old Core plugs and replaced them with new .
Then put loads of caustic soda in the block with water and left it over night ,
The next day I hosed it out , took about 15 mins before the water started to be clear and not Orange .

That’s one of the reasons I took the drain tap off , and connected a electric water pump , from a s-type , to help circulation !!

Dwomby · June 10, 2018, 11:06am

Wow! I have no suggestions to offer here, this is way beyond me, but thanks for the cautionary description and good luck.

David

Demian · June 10, 2018, 11:28am

I’ve read and seen that as well…slathering shaft with copper anti seize.

After approx. 100k additional miles, fella reported no corrosion and head came off with ease.

peterjb · June 10, 2018, 11:50am

Welcome to hell ! Is your name Demian or Damian?
Your anguish cuts through so let me exorcise, not tickle, your despair.
If the rest of the car is as described, fit a 3.4 engine MK11 etc using
adapter plates to retain the central XJ mounts, this was a regular
transplant in the late 70s when 4.2 cracked blocks / head stud problems
arose, also 2.8 engines with burnt pistons. If this XJ is for long term use
a 3.4 engine is more reliable. Power, although down, still adequate
for these ever more stringent speed limit days.
Peter B.

Demian · June 10, 2018, 5:03pm

Interesting on the engine swaps in the 70s … Never heard that before.

Once had a MkV with an xk motor shoehorned into it though by some past owner.

Can appreciate mindset of the times.

Unfortunately, even if I were able to find a 3.4 or 3.8 motor, i am pushing resources to their limits as it is. I have no space to do that.

Need to investigate more, remove all corrosion, scrape, grind, clean, heat/cool using penetrating fluids, etc.
See how i feel as i proceed.

If …when…it does snap, weld nut to stub.

Otherwise, far easier to find a s3 xj motor.
I do have an extra s1 head in good shape though.

With patience and perseverance, never know.
I just feel good about this car.

Wouldn’t typically care about matching numbers as long as it is a Jaguar motor, but i am feeling it here.

If i had to pull, I’d pull and rebuild this one i think.
But i haven’t time nor space for that.
I’m doing impossible as it is within environment I am in, believe me.

As a fellow on the list wrote me, I am indeed in old car hell…

Kind regards

Demian · June 10, 2018, 5:08pm

…and the thing is, one never would have imagined from the condition, sound, feel, or external inspection of the car…not in any way.

Wiggles · June 10, 2018, 7:18pm

Boy HOWDY! In Colorado, tap water is fine to use, and pretty much all I EVER used, and NEVER saw such smegma in a cooling system!

Yuck!

Wiggles · June 10, 2018, 7:20pm

I understand it, philosophically: doing so isolates the top of the block from head torque distortion, but, really.,…was it worth the cost?

I has always seemed to me a not-good idea.

Demian · June 10, 2018, 8:42pm

Researched induction heating … Interesting.
Perhaps ideal for this scenario.

Selling for $60-70 out of China which could be used.

Also what about brazing a piece to the deteriorated area of stud for reinforcement…

It cleaned up well after first quick garden hose flush and screwdriver dislodging.

A closer look, soaking in oxalic acid and cleaning will reveal more.
Peple use miuratic acid too with good results, but i seem to have a phobia. Splashing that stuff or mishaps.
That stuff will immediately scar skin, eyes, eat immediately away at you name it.

The stories of girls having the stuff thrown in their faces traumatized me away from ever going near…rather like guns.

Oxalic is safe as houses.

Anyway, patience and heat will definitely be fundamental.

But again, no head gasket issues. Been holding as is! Apparent recent head/gasket work, timing marks, new cam locking wire, etc… Mystery.

Again, Nevada car all its life. A dry arid climate, but sure left within garage without cooling system provision makes that largely irrelevant.

Kils me the condition otherwise of the car. The motor pulled, shifted, and sounded great. Could not notice any valve issues either.

Tires in flawless shape, P5 PIRELLI made for Jaguar dated 1980. Says something of storage at least?!
(I thought the enclosed circle on tire border is month/year of mfr. In my case 0180. First month, 1980)

Pirelli site states however production ended in 70s it seems?

From Pirelli site:
"Jaguar. In 1977 Jaguar asked Pirelli to specifically develop the P5. Technological excellence for luxury cars, comfort and noiseless ride, highest quality: these were the characteristics that Pirelli P5 exclusively ensured to the British sedans. In 1979 Pirelli P5 was officially homologated in the size 205/70 VR 15 on all Jaguar models, from XJ6 to XJ12 till XJS. The Lancia Gamma saloon and coupé and the Alfa Romeo Alfetta 2.0 saloon and GTV were soon to follow. Together with the “racing” P7 and the “sporting” P6, the P5 completed by the end of the ‘70s the Pirelli ultra-low profile tyres family “Serie Larga”.

Anyway, that’s all for now until i have moment for closer look and consideration.
Will update FWIW.