Wiring for XJ12 S2 antenna

It delays it’s retraction, for something like 10-15 seconds, so when you start the car, and the radio will turn momenteraly off, the antenna doesn’t go up and down every time.

Aristides

Ahhh. That seems to be new for SIII cars. In my SII car the antenna goes up and down every time you turn ignition on or off.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

Best

Jochen Glöckner

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

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An interesting feature, Aristides…

I have the 6 SIII, but there is no antenna delay - nor have I actually noticed antenna reaction during starting. Most likely because I have never looked. It is not much of an issue as the antenna motion is minimal during normal starting…

Might be a luxury variation of the relay used. Your schematics shows the standard relay connections - but the relay may incorporate an internal delay element. Which makes it an antenna relay - with a delay element…:slight_smile:

Whether having the antenna up for 10 seconds after shut-down is an advantage is then moot…:slight_smile:

Ie, you don’t have separate extra delay relay - and as Tony has a working set-up without the ‘green’ delay relay (if that is what it is); I think the should leave it unconnected…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

I have formed a hypothesis, based upon another vehicles antenna behaviour

  • It raises when the key is set to any position except start

  • When the ignition is turned to “crank” motor, the mast will begin to retract, only to reverse once the key is released to run, upon starting, (which is within 10secs)

all this antenna action while cranking is slightly annoying

Could it be possible that this relay, in this setup, its job is to prevent mast retraction under the above circs?

As I noted, the antenna motor has it own special relay

still not exactly sure how I would wire it to fulfil the above function

Yes, that’s exactly why the delay relay is there.
I still can’t understand though why you have the second relay…

If you like, you could omit the green relay and add the Delay Off function to a normal relay.
You can increase the delay time by using a bigger capacitor.

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The antenna is triggered to ‘up’ whenever the radio is ‘on’, Tony - which also requires power to the radio; usually ign key to ‘aux’ or ‘on’…

When starting the car; there is no real reason to pause in ‘on’ before turning to ‘crank’ - if you do; the antenna starts ‘up’. To me, this is just the way things work - and of no consequence…

To me; fitting a delay relay to maintain a 10 second retraction delay is pointless. If irritating, or when prolonged ign ‘on’ is required - turning the radio ‘off’ during starting is a simple remedy…

A delay in cabin light switch-off is meaningful - and was the way the delay worked ex factory…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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Gentlemen, we are reaching the closing chapters, but my hypothesis seems to have drawn out alternate theorems.

So I will summarise what I have found

Exibit 1) The original photo at the head of this thread shows 2 relays in the harness, so that would suggest that this particular delay relay is associated with the antenna

  1. It does not work at all when wired as a factory light delay module

  2. Although it does not seem to work exactly as shown when wired as shown in Aristides circuit diagram, I have figured out how it can be wired to operate (to prevent antenna retracting when cranking)

…that is the delay relay would control the red power wire to the main antenna control relay,
in that situation, the antenna will start rising when given power, cease all action when cranking, and move up or down appropriately at other times

I havent checked yet, but all this may be moot anyway, as the vehicle into which it is being placed is a 420G, with push button start, not key cranked ignition, so I think power will not be cut to the antenna when cranking anyway…if it is…I will be ready!

I thank you all for your input to this pesky logical problem.

It is possible this antenna is aftermarket, or out of a later Jaguar.
It was sold to me as a Jaguar XJ antenna

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In fairness, Tony - on the 12 you are supposed to pause in ‘run’ to allow the pump 2 seconds to pressurize the fuel rail, before ‘crank’. On the 6, that problem doesn’t arise…:slight_smile:

Good luck - and thanks for the ride…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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Contemplating installing an original (working well) power antenna to my Coupe. Wiring is there in the boot - though I don’t have a relay. The infamous time delay green relay - is that only for SIII, not my SII? The function appears to delay/defeat raising/lowering during cranking, only raising when ignition is in run position, and delaying retraction after ignition stop. . Does this mean that the trigger wire from the radio is not used for SIII cars - operation is not triggered by the radio being turned on? I will be happy with the antenna going up/down ad I turn the radio on/off if that is how SII cars were set-up. Anybody?

No, you’re not. That’s a myth.

On the SIII set-up you can install a SPDT normal relay, it works, that’s what I did when my green relay went kaput.
You could even omit the relay and just put a switch somewhere.
I have both.

Bill,

my automatic antenna comes on with the turn of the key and retreats once the key is in “off”. No delay, but no original antenna motor either.

To my knowledge the automatic antenna was an optional item. In the UK the two top “entertainment systems” offered (Philips RN 712 @ UKP 263.12 and Radiomobile 108 SR @ UKP 174.12) came with quad speakers and automatic antenna. For all other radio setups it was available as an option @ UKP 97.12 (almost three times as expensive as the fog lights @ 36.30) - all data from a March 1975 price list.

That being said the electric antenna is no “dealer item”. The wiring scheme contains aerial motor and aerial motor relay. The relay’s power circuit is supplied by fuse no. 3 and a brown/purple wire connected to C2 at the relay. C1 and C3 go to “up” and “down” at the motor.

The radio is inline fused and powered by a white/pink wire. The white/pink wire also supplies the control circuit of the relay (W1; W2 goes to earth). There is a joint earth connector from the radio going to the aerial motor.

The relay is DAC.1028 (C.31791). Interestingly the parts catalogue depicts it as a box shaped relay, while the suppliers promising to deliver DAC.1028 all talk about a red and cylindrical shaped relay as used for the fans until 1992. The difference between both is obvious as the parts catalogue quotes C.31791 as an alternative part no., while the suppliers refer to Lucas no. 33374. Shape-wise this one seems to be correct https://www.ebay.ca/itm/183075381916?hash=item2aa024a29c:g:ew4AAOSwNt1ahJbM&vxp=mtr; also the contacts’ denomination corresponds with the wiring scheme.

Nothing indicates any additional delay switch.

Good luck

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

Thanks Aristides and, Jochen.

So do the two wires feeding the motor need their polarities flipped through the relay to either raise or lower the mast?
Fuse #3 (brown/purple) supplies the full-time power to the relay I assume. Just to be clear, a series 2 car does not raise/lower the mast when the radio is turned on, rather synched to the ignition? Id rather avoid the timer relay to deal with those issues and just ust the aftermarket radio’s trigger wire.

Sorry, Bill,

to be unclear! No, I just referred to the turn of the ignition as I usually let the radio turned on.

If you turn on or off the radio with ignition on the mast will roll up or down immediately. If the radio is on and there is a signal at the wire from the radio, ignition on and off will trigger the mast - immediately, as well.

Occasionally, if I shut off the engine and pull the key too fast the mast won’t fully retract. I haven’t yet cared to find out whether this is a bug or a feature.

Best

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

No, IIRC it’s just On - Off

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There are two motor version used, Bill - one with an external relay, and one with the relay built into the motor. The delay relay, when fitted, is used for cabin lighting and is not involved in antenna control…

In both versions the relay reverses motor by polarity reversal, brown (constant power) to the relay and the white/pink connected to the radio’s ‘ant out’ connection switches the relay. Ie, the motor relay is always switched to ‘up’ with the radio powered and turned ‘on’ - and when radio, or radio’s power, is turned ‘off’, the relay defaults to ‘down’. The relay, 5 wire connections, switches brown/- power either to the motor ‘up’ wire - or to the ‘down’ wire. The motor body is common ground, but sometimes a (black) wire is added for consistent grounding to chassis.
With the built in relay, constant power is fed to it the same way, and the radio ‘ant out’ likewise. What actually goes on inside the motor is another story…

Normally, radio is powered with ign ‘on’ (3rd position), but some prefer to connect it to ‘park’ (2nd position) on the ign switch - to listen to the radio without turning on ignition. In principle, the radio can be permanently powered from anywhere - and the radio turned ‘off’ to retract the antenna. And as Jochen says - there seems to be no rationla reason for delaying antenna operation…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
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