[x-type] Buying an X Type

Hi all,
I am considering buying a 1999-2005 X Type.
Could you please give me the pro’s and cons of the models.
ie- engine size, 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, manual or auto,
best model to look for, fuel economy, problems to
look out for.

Thanks,
Paul.–
Paul Tomlinson. 1975 XJ5.3-C, 94 XJ40.
Bathurst, NSW, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

Paul:
The X-Type only came out in 2001 and went out of production in 2009, so I
trust that this is the car you are referring to and not the larger XJ.

We have two in our family: both 2002 manual shift cars, AWD, both 100%
trouble free. They have really been a joy to own and drive; both have the
revised clutch assembly installed (smoother and lighter than the original
design). Wonderful road cars in any weather. The fuel economy is so good
that I have never actually checked it! It just isn’t a concern (and our fuel
is $1.25 per litre for premium).
The early automatics had some problems; the 3.0 litre engine is best, of
course, with the automatic (and great with the manual); the 2.5 is perfectly
adequate in every way and has more than enough power on the highway.
Problems? The automatic, as I said, - and the transfer case in the AWD cars
can become noisy if the fluid level is low but the fluid can be replaced
(one of the list members, Bill Beausoleil, has a very neat system for doing
this). Otherwise, these are great cars. My choice would be for a manual AWD
(3.0 litre if you can find it) and I would change the fluid.

Gregory,
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
1966 3.8 Mk 2, Pale Primrose
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas, Black Cherry
2002 X-Type, 5 sp. manual, Anthracite
2004 XJ8, Ebony-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Red Phoenix
Sent: October-24-10 8:25 PM
To: x-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [x-type] Buying an X Type

Hi all,
I am considering buying a 1999-2005 X Type.
Could you please give me the pro’s and cons of the models.
ie- engine size, 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, manual or auto,
best model to look for, fuel economy, problems to
look out for.

Thanks,
Paul.

The reality is that by 2005 all the issues that the early cars might have had, had been ironed out.
We bought a wagon/estate 3.0 sport in March 2005 and have done 62,000 relatively trouble free miles (Manhattan potholes excluded…) Front wheel bearings were replaced in the last year. Temp sensor replaced. After that it’s maintenance and precautionary replacement of seal trany, etc.
Very quick, nice firm ride with engine noise that I like to hear. Added bonus, certainly in New York, is the rarity of the model. Only seen ten others on the road and one of those a neighbor bought after seeing ours.
Happy motoring…
Bob.

From Robert’s iPhone SOn Oct 25, 2010, at 5:04 PM, “Dr. Gregory Andrachuk” v12-vdp@shaw.ca wrote:

Paul:
The X-Type only came out in 2001 and went out of production in 2009, so I
trust that this is the car you are referring to and not the larger XJ.

We have two in our family: both 2002 manual shift cars, AWD, both 100%
trouble free. They have really been a joy to own and drive; both have the
revised clutch assembly installed (smoother and lighter than the original
design). Wonderful road cars in any weather. The fuel economy is so good
that I have never actually checked it! It just isn’t a concern (and our fuel
is $1.25 per litre for premium).
The early automatics had some problems; the 3.0 litre engine is best, of
course, with the automatic (and great with the manual); the 2.5 is perfectly
adequate in every way and has more than enough power on the highway.
Problems? The automatic, as I said, - and the transfer case in the AWD cars
can become noisy if the fluid level is low but the fluid can be replaced
(one of the list members, Bill Beausoleil, has a very neat system for doing
this). Otherwise, these are great cars. My choice would be for a manual AWD
(3.0 litre if you can find it) and I would change the fluid.

Gregory,
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
1966 3.8 Mk 2, Pale Primrose
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas, Black Cherry
2002 X-Type, 5 sp. manual, Anthracite
2004 XJ8, Ebony

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Red Phoenix
Sent: October-24-10 8:25 PM
To: x-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [x-type] Buying an X Type

Hi all,
I am considering buying a 1999-2005 X Type.
Could you please give me the pro’s and cons of the models.
ie- engine size, 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive, manual or auto,
best model to look for, fuel economy, problems to
look out for.

Thanks,
Paul.

Paul,
If true AWD is important to you, you may wish to focus on the earlier MYs.
It’s my understanding that around 04 Jaguar altered the transmission so FWD
kicks in only after traction is lost in the rear. Someone here could
probably explain just when and why.
Cliff
06 “AWD-badged” 3.0 auto
USA

Cliff:
I don’t think Jaguar made any changes to the AWD system; it is nominally a
40/60 system biased to the rear so it feels like a rear-wheel drive. It is
always operational.

Gregory,
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
1966 3.8 Mk 2, Pale Primrose
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas, Black Cherry
2002 X-Type, 5 sp. manual, Anthracite
2004 XJ8, Ebony-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Cliff Burk
Sent: October-25-10 2:56 PM
To: ‘Red Phoenix’; x-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [x-type] Buying an X Type

Paul,
If true AWD is important to you, you may wish to focus on the earlier MYs.
It’s my understanding that around 04 Jaguar altered the transmission so FWD
kicks in only after traction is lost in the rear. Someone here could
probably explain just when and why.
Cliff
06 “AWD-badged” 3.0 auto
USA

Gregory motivated me to double-check with my source of info, a Master
Mechanic for Jaguar and fellow club member. Here’s what he reports:
"Cliff,
Nice to see you were paying attention in class! You got it pretty close.

Attached is a section from the power unit training course. It explains that
the viscous coupling, which provided the full-time 40-60 torque split to the
rear axle, was deleted at the 2004 model year. See the last page.
[Strangely, that is the year they added the “AWD” motif to the boot lid]
With the coupling deleted, they relied on the electronic stability control
to provide the “AWD”. The car is basically a front drive vehicle until the
front wheels slip, at which point the stability control applies the front
brakes which forces the drive to the rear axle.

Anyone who really wants the “feel” of a true all-wheel-drive vehicle should
stick with the 2002-2003 model years. As far as, say, getting around in the
snow and slush in the winter, the later years do almost as well as the
viscous coupling cars, though not quite."

I didn’t ask if the set-up varied among various markets, so perhaps my
remarks are limited to the US market?

If anyone wishes to see the 5-page diagram referenced above, let me know and
I’ll pass it along.
Best regards,
Cliff
'06 3.0-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk

Cliff:
I don’t think Jaguar made any changes to the AWD system; it is nominally a
40/60 system biased to the rear so it feels like a rear-wheel drive. It is
always operational.

In reply to a message from Cliff Burk sent Mon 25 Oct 2010:

I’d like to see it. E-mail me, please. I love reading stuff like
that.–
Robert Allen
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

This is interesting but confusing because at first glance the specifications
advertised, at least, have not changed. I have the sales brochures for the
Canadian-market X-Type for all years; all of them in the specifications
section under “Drivetrain” describe the system thus in English: “Front
engine, transverse with permanent AWD” and in French: “Moteur transversal
à l’avant et transmission à 4 roues motrices en prise permanente
(emphasis mine). The introductory package, sent to me by Jaguar Canada on
February 23 2001 lists the “Mechanical standard features” beginning with
“Jaguar Traction 4 - full-time all wheel drive” with the Dynamic Stability
Control listed under “Individual Options”. The 2002 brochure has the same
listing arrangement.

This description does not mate with a supposed change in specification of
the AWD system. To quote: “basically front wheel drive until the front
wheels slip at which point the stability control applies the front brakes
which forces the drive to the rear axle”; this seems highly unlikely
ESPECIALLY because the Dynamic Stability control was an OPTIONAL feature on
some models while the “Jaguar Traction 4 AWD” was a standard feature on all
these cars. So a change of the AWD system involving the DSC for 2004 onwards
simply “doesn’t compute”. The 2005 brochure, for example lists under
standard features on all the models the AWD system and under “X-Type 3.0
Optional Features” it lists “Dynamic Stability Control [DSC] with Emergency
Brake Assist [EBA]”; this particular brochure is for Jaguar USA and for
Jaguar Canada, published 08/04. The 2006 brochure has the same listing. By
2007 the Dynamic Stability Control was a standard feature but so was the
automatic transmission.
In this same brochure the AWD system is described thus: “Jaguar Traction 4
is a system that automatically distributes power to all four wheels”. As
brochures go, these are very light on mechanical details in keeping with the
absurd “Gorgeous” advertising campaign of the period.
The British brochures are more helpful. The 2002 UK brochure, large format
describes the system as "To give a sporty, mainly rear wheel drive feel,
power is split 40% to the front, 60% to the rear wheels. If the rear wheels
show any tendency to spin - for example under acceleration on a wet surface

  • more power is directed briefly to the front wheels. It’s all done so
    quickly and smoothly, you’ll never notice it happening." (and they are
    correct about that - it is seamless).

There is no indication in the published material I have that any change was
made in the system at any point. The descriptions are perfectly consistent
from introduction through the last models of the X-Type. This does not,
however, preclude the possibility of a change in specification. Regarding
driving feel: I have driven X-Types from early production to late production
and noticed no difference in road feel (that is front or rear drive bias) at
all.
The power unit training course material, if it claims a change in the AWD
system dependent upon involvement of the Dynamic Stability Control, does not
seem credible at this point but some further research is warranted.

Gregory,
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
1966 3.8 Mk 2, Pale Primrose
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas, Black Cherry
2002 X-Type, 5 sp. manual, Anthracite
2004 XJ8, Ebony-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Cliff Burk
Sent: October-25-10 8:36 PM
To: x-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [x-type] Buying an X Type

Gregory motivated me to double-check with my source of info, a Master
Mechanic for Jaguar and fellow club member. Here’s what he reports:
"Cliff,

Attached is a section from the power unit training course. It explains that
the viscous coupling, which provided the full-time 40-60 torque split to the
rear axle, was deleted at the 2004 model year. See the last page.
[Strangely, that is the year they added the “AWD” motif to the boot lid]
With the coupling deleted, they relied on the electronic stability control
to provide the “AWD”. The car is basically a front drive vehicle until the
front wheels slip, at which point the stability control applies the front
brakes which forces the drive to the rear axle.

Anyone who really wants the “feel” of a true all-wheel-drive vehicle should
stick with the 2002-2003 model years

Steve:
Thanks for this very interesting information. The last page of this
training manual does indeed say that in the 2004 model year the viscous
coupling was eliminated and that from this point on a difference in traction
would be handled by the Dynamic Stability Control system - the problem is
that there were 2004 and 2005 and 2006 X-Types with AWD and no Stability
Control; how then would the unit work? Jaguar manuals are not always
entirely correct although would seem to be a very strange error, if it is an
error. Could they have continued fitting a transfer case system which
retained the viscous coupling for cars not equipped with the DSC - and
simply failed to point this out in the manual? This sort of thing has been
known to happen in Jaguar history.

Gregory,
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
1966 3.8 Mk 2, Pale Primrose
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas, Black Cherry
2002 X-Type, 5 sp. manual, Anthracite
2004 XJ8, Ebony-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Petry.

Attached is a section from the power unit training course. It explains that
the viscous coupling, which provided the full-time 40-60 torque split to the
rear axle, was deleted at the 2004 model year. See the last page.
[Strangely, that is the year they added the “AWD” motif to the boot lid]
With the coupling deleted, they relied on the electronic stability control
to provide the “AWD”. The car is basically a front drive vehicle until the
front wheels slip, at which point the stability control applies the front
brakes which forces the drive to the rear axle.

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Tue 26 Oct 2010:

Been away for a while so a bit slow contributing to this discussion.
Starting from first principals, if one engine is to drive all four
wheels, then, practically, there have to be three differentials (or
their equivalent) - one between the front wheels, one between the
back wheels and one between the front and rear wheels. In the X
Type, this is achieved by two standard diffs - one for front
wheels, one for rear wheels while the one in the middle is, of
course, the viscous coupling in the transfer box. (Also in there is
the epicyclic gearing that is used to divide the torque 40/60
front/rear, but that plays no part in the essential differential
action of the viscous coupling)

Assuming everyone agrees on the need for the front and rear diffs,
let’s think about the need (or not!) of the viscous coupling. Under
normal driving conditions, the coupling transmits torque but still
allows the slippage necessary to allow the front wheel drive to
turn at a different rate to the rear drive when the car is not
travelling in a straight line.

In the event of one wheel losing traction, the resulting high
increase in speed between the front and rear drive shafts (front
and rear diffs are not of the Limited Slip type)causes the viscous
coupling to lock up and provide drive to both ends.

Now I haven’t done the power unit training course, nor read the
associated documentation,(Canyou send me a copy, please Steve?) but
if the viscous coupling were to be deleted, then the resultant
permanent lock up between front and rear would cause an
unacceptably high rate of tyre wear because tyre scub would be
required to take up the small differences that occur all the time
between front and rear wheels. Yes the DSC system will prevent
individual wheel spin in extremis, but it cannot do the routine job
done by the viscous coupling.

My own X Type is a 2005 model, with the usual transfer box complete
with viscous coupling, but no DSC - just AWD on the boot lid! It
would be useful to hear from someone with a late model with AWD on
the boot lid and DSC on the dashboard!

In summary, I believe the absence of a viscous coupling on any AWD
X Type to be an Urban Myth!! Sorry, no offence intended!–
The original message included these comments:

Attached is a section from the power unit training course. It explains that
the viscous coupling, which provided the full-time 40-60 torque split to the
rear axle, was deleted at the 2004 model year. See the last page.


astromorg
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In reply to a message from astromorg sent Mon 8 Nov 2010:

Further to my last post where I concluded that the lack of a
viscous coupling must be an urban myth, I can now withdraw that
statement and apologise to Steve for upsetting him. Having received
copies of various Jaguar documents - for which thanks, Steve - I
have posted a comprehensive description of my understanding of the
working of the system in its various forms. As all this is really
irrelevant to Buying An X Type, I’ve put it in a new Post titled
Transfer Box Operation, same date as this entry.–
The original message included these comments:

In summary, I believe the absence of a viscous coupling on any AWD
X Type to be an Urban Myth!! Sorry, no offence intended!


astromorg
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Red Phoenix sent Sun 24 Oct 2010:

Hi Paul,

If you plan to buy an X-Type check following things:

  • transfer case oil leak at propeller shaft end (minor oil
    on car parts around propeller shaft connection)
  • transfer case oil leak at right half shaft simmering ( oil
    on transfer case bottom)
  • transfer case or gearbox noise: high freq sound then use
    ‘‘engine brake’’ mode after acceleration. Bearings are dead
    because of oil leak.
  • oil pan gasket leak: very hard to replace on 4x4 cars (oil
    on oil pan)
  • knock at start/stop/clutch press: dual mass problem
    (manual gearbox versions)
  • rude idle when engine cold: dual mass flywheel or spark
    plugs or air intake seals
  • slipping clutch, clutch pressure point too high
  • noisy propeller shaft (middle bearing wrong, not possible
    to replace bearing only)
  • Far distance lights: weak mirror surface is broken after
    bulbs of position lights replace and mirror surface moving
    in its house. Inspect by hand.
  • door latch jamming on summer, window regulator broken: try
    to open all door and check windows too.

clutch&dual mass flywheel change is not cheap and not a
simple work because of cross V6 engine and transfer case box
on gearbox. In general 4x4 versions need more labour hours,
but no question they are better on road.

Transfer case changed in 2004 significantly (there were
about 7-8 version with minor changes between 2001-2009)
because of no VC after 2004 (VC was too expensive). BUT 4x4
works after 2004 too. Because of fixed 61%/39% rear/front
torque splitted by mechanic centre differential (inside the
transfer case) as pre 2004 cars too. The problem only, TC
cannot modify the front/rear rate. (It is not as huge
problem, this system much better than an RWD or FWD but
worst than the VC version). DSC will do the rate change by
brakes instead of VC. DSC have slower response and reduce
life of your brakes.

I’m not sure in 100%, but my opinion, every X-Type after
2004 have DSC, but DSC software is limited for VC operations
if you didn’t pay for the real DSC option.

My personal opinion, if performance is not as important
for you as maintenance fee, buy a 2.1V6 FWD, manual version.
Cheap to maintain and repair. Slow car, but same nice as all
X-Type. If you would like a real funny car, choose 3.0V6
manual, but check carefully before buy, and keep some money
in glove box for next some years.–
S-Type 4.0V8, X-Type 3.0V6
Budaors, Hungary
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In reply to a message from Neo30 sent Sun 21 Nov 2010:

Hi All and thanks All,

The question of buying an X Type really went further than I thought
it would however, it did help me decide not to buy a 4WD model.
Although this model seems to be the best the maintenance might out
weigh the benifits. I have a constant 4WD Ute at the moment with
80,000 km on the clock and it has given me no end of trouble with
axles, driveshafts, CV joints etc so when I have it all fixed it
will go out the door.

I have decided on a 2.5L or 3.0L 2WD Auto 2005 onwards. It has to
be auto for the wife as she refuses to drive a manual. It won’t be
silver I can assure you of that as they seem to be everywhere.
White looks good

Why is a 30L manual a funny car?

Thanks for all your input and setting me in the right direction.

Enjoy,
Paul.–
The original message included these comments:

X-Type. If you would like a real funny car, choose 3.0V6
manual, but check carefully before buy, and keep some money


Paul Tomlinson. 1975 XJ5.3-C, 94 XJ40.
Bathurst, NSW, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Surely he meant " a fun car"? a 3.0 manual can’t be anything but fun!
No problems here with the AWD.

Gregory,
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
1966 3.8 Mk 2, Pale Primrose
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas, Black Cherry
2002 X-Type, 5 sp. manual, Anthracite
2004 XJ8, Ebony-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x-type@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Red Phoenix
Sent: November-24-10 1:52 PM
To: x-type@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x-type] Buying an X Type

In reply to a message from Neo30 sent Sun 21 Nov 2010:

Hi All and thanks All,

The question of buying an X Type really went further than I thought
it would however, it did help me decide not to buy a 4WD model.
Although this model seems to be the best the maintenance might out
weigh the benifits. I have a constant 4WD Ute at the moment with
80,000 km on the clock and it has given me no end of trouble with
axles, driveshafts, CV joints etc so when I have it all fixed it
will go out the door.

I have decided on a 2.5L or 3.0L 2WD Auto 2005 onwards. It has to
be auto for the wife as she refuses to drive a manual. It won’t be
silver I can assure you of that as they seem to be everywhere.
White looks good

Why is a 30L manual a funny car?
g/donate04.php –

In reply to a message from Red Phoenix sent Wed 24 Nov 2010:

Not sure about the US market, but in UK for the year models you’re
looking at, AWD was compulsory on the 2.5L and 3.0L petrol models,
while the 2.0L petrol and 2.0L diesels were only available in 2WD.
Auto transmission was an option on the 2.5L and 3.0L, but not on
the 2.0L petrol and diesel. Auto diesels came later, but probably
not in US. From this side of the pond it loks like you’re searching
for the impossible Paul. Sorry!!–
The original message included these comments:

I have decided on a 2.5L or 3.0L 2WD Auto 2005 onwards. It has to


astromorg
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In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Wed 24 Nov 2010:

Paul, just realised you’re in Aus, not US, but I don’t think it
affects the the matter of choice!–
astromorg
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

Hi guys, this has been interesting reading but left me rather confused.
Putting it clear, does the post 2004 x type AWD require electronics to make it work and does the pre 2004 AWD do not have any electrics thus mechanical AWD.

That would seem to be the case, pre '04 ‘mechanical/hydraulic’ AWD, post '04 computer/electronic stuff

That explains a lot, I was going to buy a 07 but gonna find a 03 now