[x300] 30k service

I’m bringing my 98 XJR in for what is my final milking of the factory warranty tomorrow. Coincidentally, I have 30k miles on the clock. Looking through the “passport to service” guide that came with the car, there are a lot of check this and poke that items but nothing that appears to be major to me. I asked my “service advisor” what the 30k service entails and he couldn’t give me a complete list, other than saying flushing injectors and brake fluid. He also stated this “service” is almost $500.

This is my first Jaguar. I’m reasonably convinced the resale value is tied verifiable service records (though these things drop in value so fast, I don’t know why I bother) so I’m willing to pay for something that only the dealer can do but I’m not going to bend over for a glorified brake bleed and 20 minute injector flush.

Has anyone out there actually paid for a 30k service? If so, what exactly did you get?

Just FYI, I flushed the brakes after I received the car (20k) because I didn’t know the history. I’ve only paid for an injector flush once in my entire life and it was because I felt sorry for a shop that had just done a bunch of free work on my car. As an engineer, I will argue for hours that injector flushes are worthless if you change the fuel filter at regular intervals and buy your gas at a station you can trust. BTW, I changed the fuel filter upon receipt as well because I didn’t know where the previous owner was getting his fuel.

Any input would be appreciated.

Paul–


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You V8 guys get off easy.

A 30K service for an XJR6 is $800 to $1200 at the dealer.

This is what usually happens on my car.

All belts checked
Drive belt changed
S/C Belt changed
Trans fluid changed (even though your MB 5 speed is supposed to be service
free I would still get the fluid changed)
Oil changed
Spark plugs changed
New wiper blade
Fittings greased
Other things are checked and cleaned like the A/C condensor and radiator
matrix.On top of that I would do the brake fluid (which you already did) and flush the coolant (very important and usually overlooked) A thermostat change wouldn’t hurt either. Injector cleaning is usually pure profit for the dealer as most high octane gas has detergents in it that keep the spray pattern good. Chevron Techron concentrate is GREAT to use right BEFORE an oil change is due. Tim 1995 XJR on 2/19/03 5:55 PM, Paul Coates at pcoates@mail.com wrote:

I’m bringing my 98 XJR in for what is my final milking of the factory warranty
tomorrow. Coincidentally, I have 30k miles on the clock. Looking through the
“passport to service” guide that came with the car, there are a lot of check
this and poke that items but nothing that appears to be major to me. I asked
my “service advisor” what the 30k service entails and he couldn’t give me a
complete list, other than saying flushing injectors and brake fluid. He also
stated this “service” is almost $500.

This is my first Jaguar. I’m reasonably convinced the resale value is tied
verifiable service records (though these things drop in value so fast, I don’t
know why I bother) so I’m willing to pay for something that only the dealer
can do but I’m not going to bend over for a glorified brake bleed and 20
minute injector flush.

Has anyone out there actually paid for a 30k service? If so, what exactly did
you get?

Just FYI, I flushed the brakes after I received the car (20k) because I didn’t
know the history. I’ve only paid for an injector flush once in my entire life
and it was because I felt sorry for a shop that had just done a bunch of free
work on my car. As an engineer, I will argue for hours that injector flushes
are worthless if you change the fuel filter at regular intervals and buy your
gas at a station you can trust. BTW, I changed the fuel filter upon receipt
as well because I didn’t know where the previous owner was getting his fuel.

Any input would be appreciated.

Paul

In reply to a message from Paul Coates sent Thu 20 Feb 2003:

A '98 X300 with only 30,000 miles on the clock? That’s a
rarity. If you could afford such a low mileage example in
the first place I would suggest you keep taking it to a
proper Jaguar dealer, especially as you’ll get a Jaguar
stamp in your service book which will help you sell it in
the future. I just had a 70,000 on my '97 XJ6 at an official
Jaguar dealer because my service book is full of Jaguar
stamps, plus I’ve only just bought it and I wanted peace of
mind.

I don’t understand though why you have already done some
jobs yourself, you say because you didn’t know the history
when you bought it at 20,000 miles. You must have got a
service book with it?–
Simon Constable XJ6 3.2 Executive 1997
Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

In reply to a message from simcon sent Thu 20 Feb 2003:

Make sure the servicegay do the things thats in the servicebook.

I ve got a 96 XJ6 with only 56 000 KM on it and its been serviced
every year. ( upto 7 years and 96 000 )

I Took a middle service with oilchange and filter, radiator flush,
brake controll 10 point check service and had the damper washers
changed. in Norway I paid about 3000 kroner or 300 punds–
XJ6/96
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

I got a blank service book. The previous owner didn’t have “regular” maintenance (oil/filter changes) done at the dealer. I took his word for it that he either did the changes or paid an independent. I bought the car while it was still under factory warranty so I wasn’t concerned about big problems and I was told the car had been completely trouble free. I have no reason to believe otherwise as the car looked and drove immaculate.

I addition to what I previously wrote that I had performed myself, I also had the dealer flush the coolant (if you have a conscience, in my area, disposal is difficult so I paid for the flush). I forgot to tell them to replace the t-stat when I dropped off the car and by the time I had called, the coolant was already topped off.

Call me cheap, but I don’t see the point in paying someone $109/hr to stand on the brake pedal a few times and check my belts and hoses. I can do that. Now if a trans. flush or even a spark plug change were called for, I’d sign up. But neither is in the book. I’m sure they’d be happy to do the spark plugs above and beyond the $500 they quoted me but I guarantee they’ll look at me like I’m nuts when I tell them to flush the trans. as it’s supposed to be sealed (I haven’t been under there to verify this yet but I know there’s no (convenient) way to check the level or condition of fluid).

I was just curious as to what people were getting servicewise for a 30k service. Since my service advisor couldn’t tell me. That leads to a whole other discussion . . .----- Original Message -----
From: simcon simon_constable@HoTMaiL.com
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:37:05 +0100
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] 30k service

In reply to a message from Paul Coates sent Thu 20 Feb 2003:

A '98 X300 with only 30,000 miles on the clock? That’s a
rarity. If you could afford such a low mileage example in
the first place I would suggest you keep taking it to a
proper Jaguar dealer, especially as you’ll get a Jaguar
stamp in your service book which will help you sell it in
the future. I just had a 70,000 on my '97 XJ6 at an official
Jaguar dealer because my service book is full of Jaguar
stamps, plus I’ve only just bought it and I wanted peace of
mind.

I don’t understand though why you have already done some
jobs yourself, you say because you didn’t know the history
when you bought it at 20,000 miles. You must have got a
service book with it?

Simon Constable XJ6 3.2 Executive 1997
Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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On the 1998 XJ8 the transmission is “filled for life”, as is the rear diff.
Spark plugs are pretty damn easy to change on that V8… probably the
easiest I have done in a long time. The only things I see being done are
change the coolant, change oil and filter, check brakes, hoses, fan belt
(easily unless you forget how it is routed), change spark plugs if it is
time for them, and bleed brakes. I can’t see $500 worth of stuff being done
there. All teh stuff I listed can be done pretty easily yourself. No
reason to go to the stealer for that.

-Chris> I got a blank service book. The previous owner didn’t have

“regular” maintenance (oil/filter changes) done at the dealer. I
took his word for it that he either did the changes or paid an
independent. I bought the car while it was still under factory
warranty so I wasn’t concerned about big problems and I was told
the car had been completely trouble free. I have no reason to
believe otherwise as the car looked and drove immaculate.

I addition to what I previously wrote that I had performed
myself, I also had the dealer flush the coolant (if you have a
conscience, in my area, disposal is difficult so I paid for the
flush). I forgot to tell them to replace the t-stat when I
dropped off the car and by the time I had called, the coolant was
already topped off.

Call me cheap, but I don’t see the point in paying someone
$109/hr to stand on the brake pedal a few times and check my
belts and hoses. I can do that. Now if a trans. flush or even a
spark plug change were called for, I’d sign up. But neither is
in the book. I’m sure they’d be happy to do the spark plugs
above and beyond the $500 they quoted me but I guarantee they’ll
look at me like I’m nuts when I tell them to flush the trans. as
it’s supposed to be sealed (I haven’t been under there to verify
this yet but I know there’s no (convenient) way to check the
level or condition of fluid).

I was just curious as to what people were getting servicewise for
a 30k service. Since my service advisor couldn’t tell me. That
leads to a whole other discussion . . .

Thank you for indulging me Chris. That’s what I wanted to hear. So I’m not cheap or crazy, it’s good to know.

I suspect the plugs are good to 50k (I don’t even know what the recommended change interval is) but I might change them at 40k if I have nothing better to do some Saturday afternoon between 40k & 50k.> On the 1998 XJ8 the transmission is “filled for life”, as is the rear diff.

Spark plugs are pretty damn easy to change on that V8… probably the
easiest I have done in a long time. The only things I see being done are
change the coolant, change oil and filter, check brakes, hoses, fan belt
(easily unless you forget how it is routed), change spark plugs if it is
time for them, and bleed brakes. I can’t see $500 worth of stuff being done
there. All teh stuff I listed can be done pretty easily yourself. No
reason to go to the stealer for that.

-Chris

I got a blank service book. The previous owner didn’t have
“regular” maintenance (oil/filter changes) done at the dealer. I
took his word for it that he either did the changes or paid an
independent. I bought the car while it was still under factory
warranty so I wasn’t concerned about big problems and I was told
the car had been completely trouble free. I have no reason to
believe otherwise as the car looked and drove immaculate.

I addition to what I previously wrote that I had performed
myself, I also had the dealer flush the coolant (if you have a
conscience, in my area, disposal is difficult so I paid for the
flush). I forgot to tell them to replace the t-stat when I
dropped off the car and by the time I had called, the coolant was
already topped off.

Call me cheap, but I don’t see the point in paying someone
$109/hr to stand on the brake pedal a few times and check my
belts and hoses. I can do that. Now if a trans. flush or even a
spark plug change were called for, I’d sign up. But neither is
in the book. I’m sure they’d be happy to do the spark plugs
above and beyond the $500 they quoted me but I guarantee they’ll
look at me like I’m nuts when I tell them to flush the trans. as
it’s supposed to be sealed (I haven’t been under there to verify
this yet but I know there’s no (convenient) way to check the
level or condition of fluid).

I was just curious as to what people were getting servicewise for
a 30k service. Since my service advisor couldn’t tell me. That
leads to a whole other discussion . . .


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In reply to a message from simcon sent Thu 20 Feb 2003:

Okay, a few clarifications here:

  1. Having work done at the dealer in no way ensures the job will be
    done better than at an independent shop. All it ensures is that the
    proper tools are certain to be available at the dealership for
    complex jobs.

  2. When I do the work myself I’m assured the job was done to my
    satisfaction. Next time you’re in a dealership service bay watch a
    mechanic at work for a while and count the number of times he uses
    a torque wrench.

  3. I’ve had some pretty sloppy work done at various dealerships
    over the years, those dealerships including prestige brands such as
    BMW and Jaguar.

  4. For reasons I won’t elaborate upon except calling into question
    the ‘‘flat rate’’ mechanic compensation model at most shops including
    the dealership, it is apparent after checking the mechanic’s work
    that some jobs don’t get done at all even when they are on the
    invoice. Your 30K service includes a lot of ‘‘inspect the so-and-
    so’’ and I guarantee you there are plenty of mechanics out there who
    will skim over or even skip certain jobs.

  5. I just recently did the 50K service on my XJ8 and it was
    painless, cheap and I know it was done right. I also used
    synthetic oil which the dealership would not unless I pay them $120
    USD.

Working in the service industry myself (telco system repair) I’m
privy to some scary insights. I’ve also been ‘‘inside’’ the auto
repair industry enough to know what’s up. They’re not all crooks
but the system is ripe for abuse.–
The original message included these comments:

rarity. If you could afford such a low mileage example in
the first place I would suggest you keep taking it to a
proper Jaguar dealer, especially as you’ll get a Jaguar
stamp in your service book which will help you sell it in
the future. I just had a 70,000 on my '97 XJ6 at an official
Jaguar dealer because my service book is full of Jaguar
stamps, plus I’ve only just bought it and I wanted peace of
mind.
I don’t understand though why you have already done some
jobs yourself, you say because you didn’t know the history
when you bought it at 20,000 miles. You must have got a


Jason F.
Dallas, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

I concur. The only thing I might add is as an engineer, “service intervals” and “inspection points” are NOT an exact science. We usually pull some arbitrary value out of the air that sounds good and is conservative. Sometimes, during testing, a particular item will fail at a “simulated” 15k miles so we’ll make the inspection/replacement point 10k. If we think it should have lasted longer, it will be an “inspection” if it legitimately failed due to design or environment it will be a “replace.”

Anything elastomer (rubber) based has a typical conservative shelf life of 10 years (depending on the specific elastomer) after it has been molded. In service, it’s heat (or dramatic heat cycling) more than any other single factor (including mileage, though belt slippage and therefore heat are a direct result of mileage) that robs life from an elastomer. Sometimes elastomers are not compatible with some fluids but you rarely find mismatches under a hood; brake fluid and nitrile accessory belts come to mind but most accessory belts are EPDM nowadays.

My point is that the book the manufacturer gives you as a “service guide” is a very conservative catch-all. I can tell you I do 20-30% of the things listed in the 30k service EVERY time I put gas in the car. The rest of the “poke and check” stuff is to cover themelves when an accessory belt breaks prematurely and the customer asks why his belt only lasted 31k. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay over $100/hr to a guy who won’t do near as good a job as I will. It has nothing to do with if I can afford it or not.----- Original Message -----
From: JasonF jason_flynn@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:50:44 +0100
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] 30k service

In reply to a message from simcon sent Thu 20 Feb 2003:

Okay, a few clarifications here:

  1. Having work done at the dealer in no way ensures the job will be
    done better than at an independent shop. All it ensures is that the
    proper tools are certain to be available at the dealership for
    complex jobs.

  2. When I do the work myself I’m assured the job was done to my
    satisfaction. Next time you’re in a dealership service bay watch a
    mechanic at work for a while and count the number of times he uses
    a torque wrench.

  3. I’ve had some pretty sloppy work done at various dealerships
    over the years, those dealerships including prestige brands such as
    BMW and Jaguar.

  4. For reasons I won’t elaborate upon except calling into question
    the ‘‘flat rate’’ mechanic compensation model at most shops including
    the dealership, it is apparent after checking the mechanic’s work
    that some jobs don’t get done at all even when they are on the
    invoice. Your 30K service includes a lot of ‘‘inspect the so-and-
    so’’ and I guarantee you there are plenty of mechanics out there who
    will skim over or even skip certain jobs.

  5. I just recently did the 50K service on my XJ8 and it was
    painless, cheap and I know it was done right. I also used
    synthetic oil which the dealership would not unless I pay them $120
    USD.

Working in the service industry myself (telco system repair) I’m
privy to some scary insights. I’ve also been ‘‘inside’’ the auto
repair industry enough to know what’s up. They’re not all crooks
but the system is ripe for abuse.

The original message included these comments:

rarity. If you could afford such a low mileage example in
the first place I would suggest you keep taking it to a
proper Jaguar dealer, especially as you’ll get a Jaguar
stamp in your service book which will help you sell it in
the future. I just had a 70,000 on my '97 XJ6 at an official
Jaguar dealer because my service book is full of Jaguar
stamps, plus I’ve only just bought it and I wanted peace of
mind.
I don’t understand though why you have already done some
jobs yourself, you say because you didn’t know the history
when you bought it at 20,000 miles. You must have got a


Jason F.
Dallas, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–


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In reply to a message from Paul Coates sent Fri 21 Feb 2003:

I understand very well why you want to maintain your cars
yourself. If you want a job done properly, then do it
yourself the saying goes; it’s very true. I am not
criticising anyones ability to maintain their vehicles
better than a workshop mechanic, my concerns lay primarilly
when selling the car (in the UK anyway). Basically here the
service history IS the car, it’s where the value is. It may
be valued at �10,000 GBP / $15,000 USD/EUR (for example’s
sake) but if the service book isn’t officially stamped it
will be more difficult to pass on. That’s if you want to
sell it of course :smiley: My experiences are of the UK market
only. Things could be very different elsewhere.–
Simon Constable XJ6 3.2 Executive 1997
Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

  1. I just recently did the 50K service on my XJ8 and it was
    painless, cheap and I know it was done right. I also used
    synthetic oil which the dealership would not unless I pay them $120
    USD.

A lot of your points do have merit, and you do know exactly what you have done.

However, a ‘good’ technician who is doing a service knows many things to look for that you wouldn’t have a clue about. There are a lot of common problem areas that I look at while I’m going over the car, and I can recommend a repair or for a customer to keep an eye on certain things. For instance, did you use the correct size drill bit when you cleaned your part load breather ? Did you suck all the brake fluid from the calipers ? Unless you use a high vacuum bleeder, you don’t remove the dirtiest fluid that resides behind the piston. I’m not trying to denigrate your abilities, just pointing out one reason dealers charge what they do. Specialists of any profession are often better than the best informed amateurs.

A few of my customers bring their own oil, there is never a charge for using customer’s oil. Are you saying your Dealer would charge you to use oil that you supply?

Vic