[x300] 97 XJR problems.. Im STUMPED! help!

Okay folks, you may have seen some of my recent posts… Im having
some troubles and im stumped! My wife wrecked our 95xjs last
month. I bought a 97 xjr with 85000 miles and had it shipped to me
here in NJ… I believe the dealer when he said it ran fine there
when he took it on a test drive before I agreed to buy it…

Anyway, the car had been sitting for 7 months. When it arrived
here, the car hauler had to jump start it… I hoped in and drove
it down the driveway, but it sputtered and hickuped when I touched
the gas… When I got into the garage, I popped the trunk to see why
the had to jump it. I assumed a dead battery was to blame for the
miss… It had a brand new battery in it, but the bolt to tighten
the ground terminal was broke. I grabbed some vise grips and
clamped the terminal tight with the grips and went for a test
drive. it went great for about 10 miles, I hit a good bump, and the
car started missing again and sputtering and mild pops from the
exhuast when I hit the gas at all… I pulled over and the grips had
popped off… Put them back on, and the car was fine… went 10 more
miles to home, and proceeded to get the broken bolt out of the
terminal. Fixed it, charged the battery fully, and tightened it up
good… Got in the car, and 2 miles down the road its missing bad
again… This is where the fun starts. Its been doing this since…
Goes a few miles, and then gets a bad miss… Sometimes I can go a
few miles, sometimes 10 miles. Seems better the warmer the air is.
If its missing, I can stop, or shut it off, and the restart and its
good for a few again. I am getting Multi cyl misfire codes, and
others related to same…
This is what I have done so far:

Drained fuel tank. refilled and added new water remover for closed
vent systems and ethanol gas. didnt help… ran that tank out, and
refilled again.

Pulled sending unit and looked in tank. all clean.

Changed fuel filter.

Tried 3 different batterys.

Replaced spark plugs with recommended champions (#12 ones)

Replaced all 6 coils from wrecked 95 XJS.

Swapped pin layout for dual fuel pumps so other pump is used as
main pump.

Cleaned MAF sensor.

New air filter.

Checked all plugs and connections under hood and in the trunk.

Borrowed snapon scan tool to read and clear codes… Checked all
sensors. All looks good. Friend with scan tool as a top notch ASE
Master tech. He is stumped too… O2’s good, temp sensor good, MAF
good, etc.

02 trims are a bit high, but not out of range. So it is calling for
a little much on fuel. Fuel mileage is HORRIBLE… about 10-12 mpg
highway. Plugs have black soot on base ring.

The car is driveable if you dont touch the gas. will cruise at 70
and get horrible gas mileage. Sometimes it will start to run good
and it is a rocketship… have gone 18 miles running and flying
good, only to revert back to this BS.
Any clues?!?! Im getting sick over this! I’ve never been stumped
like this!

Thanks!
Ron–
eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

  • Maybe try to clean off or replace the crankshaft position
    sensor?
  • Have you done a fuel system pressure test - perhaps
    clogged or failing pump?
  • Replaced fuel pump relays?
  • Do you get recurring trouble codes when it starts running
    rough - 0300? Any other codes?
  • Are you losing any fluids - gas smell or oil slick in
    coolant reservoir / moisture in the oil / smoke in exhaust?

Just some ideas.–

In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

It would help if you post the codes you found. Generally, random
misfires can be caused by harness problems, bad plugs or oil-
shorted plugs, contaminated fuel or a bad ECU where the coil ond/or
injector drivers are giving trouble. I tend to go with the ECU. I
suggest you pull the ECU, look inside for signs of moisture trouble
inside the case and in the pin connectors. The battery issue may
have added to the problem. When a high amp power source such as the
battery arcs, it can create some bad situations for the delicate
power converters in the ECU. I hope it’s just bad plugs.–
Brian Caro 96XJ6 4.0 63E-TypeS1FHC
Newport News, VA, United States
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In reply to a message from andyman32 sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Go to an autozone or similar and read any error codes. It
may short cut this whole process by pointing you immediately
to the problem area. It’s OBD II

Steve–
mando
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In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

I’m going to sound like a broken record here, but has anyone
mentioned an oxygen sensor orientation procedure to you yet?

Funky trim levels, poor mileage, and not entering into a
closed loop running state, all without error codes are the
same symptoms that have led others, including myself, to
have an oxygen sensor orientation.

You don’t mention if the XJR is getting out of open loop and
entering closed loop. Do you know the situation there? Your
master tech should have checked that while he was scanning
the oxygen sensors.

If a previous owner or selling dealer changed the oxygen
sensors, but then mixed up the leads and ports you could end
up with the situation you’re describing. I should mention,
however, that I did not experience any bucking in my VDP
prior to having the procedure run so I can’t be 100% sure
that this will fix your problem.

And just fyi… the procedure takes roughly 30 minutes with
the appropriate scan tool. If your master tech doesn’t have
the capability, take the XJR to a dealer to have it performed.–
The original message included these comments:

Borrowed snapon scan tool to read and clear codes… Checked all
sensors. All looks good. Friend with scan tool as a top notch ASE
Master tech. He is stumped too… O2’s good, temp sensor good, MAF
good, etc.
02 trims are a bit high, but not out of range. So it is calling for
a little much on fuel. Fuel mileage is HORRIBLE… about 10-12 mpg
highway. Plugs have black soot on base ring.
The car is driveable if you dont touch the gas. will cruise at 70
and get horrible gas mileage. Sometimes it will start to run good


jaguarSean '97 VDP
Walpole, MA, United States
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In reply to a message from andyman32 sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Andy,

I havent messed with the crank shaft sensor yet… I may swap it
with the one from the smacked up XJS. But I dont see who that could
cause the symptoms, but who knows…

Fuel pressure is good, at least at idle. havent rigged up a setup
so watch while we drive. but we did swap pumps, so im sure its not
a pump pressure issue.

no fluid loss. no smoke, etc…

swapped around fuel pump relays, swapped pumps (xjr has 2).

Thanks for the input…–
The original message included these comments:

  • Maybe try to clean off or replace the crankshaft position
  • Have you done a fuel system pressure test - perhaps
    clogged or failing pump?
  • Replaced fuel pump relays?
  • Do you get recurring trouble codes when it starts running
    rough - 0300? Any other codes?
  • Are you losing any fluids - gas smell or oil slick in
    coolant reservoir / moisture in the oil / smoke in exhaust?
    Just some ideas.


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from jaguarSean sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

I had problem similar to this and it turned out to be the auto
transmission wiring loom, there is quite a bit of up and down
movement on the transmission / engine mount and the loom can start
to break up, might be worth a check. I had no fault codes with this
problem
I HATE INTERMITANT FAULTS, A PAIN IN THE REAR.
http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1164449229--
Mike 1995 XJR Auto Plymouth Devon
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In reply to a message from Brian Caro sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Brian,

P0300 is always there (muiltcyl misfire)
i also get at random, 0301-0305. I think after it gets misfire from
2 cyls, it kicks the 0300.
and I have had P1314 pretty often. Check engine light does not come
on until after im driving a bit, and then when teh car starts to
miss. So im not getting a code on whats causing the miss, only
getting the code for when the miss is happening…

I’ve inspected the harness, checked the terminals (all clean).
changed coils and spark plugs. Not fuel, as I have drained and ran
a tank and a half through this thing. And I have gone 15 miles when
its ran good, and then other times its sooooo bad you cant make it
up a hill…

Im wondering about the ecu too… That broken ground cable had to
definitly cause some issues. but even when teh car is running bad,
i out the scanner on it, and all the values and sensors look good…
wouldnt the bad ecu show some crazy info on the scanner??

Thanks!–
The original message included these comments:

It would help if you post the codes you found. Generally, random
misfires can be caused by harness problems, bad plugs or oil-
shorted plugs, contaminated fuel or a bad ECU where the coil ond/or
injector drivers are giving trouble. I tend to go with the ECU. I
suggest you pull the ECU, look inside for signs of moisture trouble
inside the case and in the pin connectors. The battery issue may
have added to the problem. When a high amp power source such as the
battery arcs, it can create some bad situations for the delicate
power converters in the ECU. I hope it’s just bad plugs.
Brian Caro 96XJ6 4.0 63E-TypeS1FHC


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from mando sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Steve,

thanks, but im already past that… I have a professional Snap-On
scan tool hooked up… Im getting real time feedback, freeze frame
snapshot of data when the code trips, etc…

thanks tho…
Ron–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from andyman32 sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:
Go to an autozone or similar and read any error codes. It
may short cut this whole process by pointing you immediately
to the problem area. It’s OBD II
Steve
mando


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from jaguarSean sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Sean,

This procedure has not been done… but do you think the
intermittent problem I am having would suggest this as the cause??
the fact that it runs good for a few minutes, and then starts to
miss… and then sometimes comes back around and runs great again…??

Also, it is entering closed loop… the the strat of the miss does
not coincide with going into closed loop… already checked that
one! :wink:

One odd thing, the car had almost new plugs in it… and there is a
brand new Jag oxy sensor in the package in the glove box… Im
thinking someone was chasing this already… But the dealer had it
inspected in July, and claims it has always ran fine there… But
how knows… It does ‘seem’ to be better when the day is warmer…
but we havnt had much warm weather here in NJ in the week I have
had the car… Im sure it was warmer in NC when the dealer test
drove it for me 2 weeks agi…

Does anyone else think the oriantation procedure could cause
this?? Would swapping the o2 leads cause this even tho they look
like the are working correctly on the scan tool??

Thanks
Ron–
The original message included these comments:

I’m going to sound like a broken record here, but has anyone
mentioned an oxygen sensor orientation procedure to you yet?
Funky trim levels, poor mileage, and not entering into a
closed loop running state, all without error codes are the
same symptoms that have led others, including myself, to
You don’t mention if the XJR is getting out of open loop and
entering closed loop. Do you know the situation there? Your
If a previous owner or selling dealer changed the oxygen
sensors, but then mixed up the leads and ports you could end
up with the situation you’re describing. I should mention,


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from Pilgrim40 sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Mike,

You think??/ hmmmm… never thought of tranny issues, but I dont
think that could cause the missing, popping out the tailpipes, and
the misfire the cylinders are having… But maybe theres more to
these trannys than I am aware off…??

Anyone elses thought on this???

When driving the car and it misses, it appears as a fuel starvation
issue… Also confirmed and suggested from the master tech… I dont
se how the tranny loom could could the lean misfire?? But the
plugs and fuel mileage show rich…??? stumped!

Im thinkin ECU or vacuum leak… Spraying carb clean around the
intake area has no effect tho… and the idle is normal… But missed
like fuel starvation but has bad mileage and soot on the plugs…
What could cause an intermitent vacuum leak that would make the ECU
call for more fuel, BUT, not have an effect on idle RPMS???

Thanks all!
Ron–
The original message included these comments:

I had problem similar to this and it turned out to be the auto
transmission wiring loom, there is quite a bit of up and down
movement on the transmission / engine mount and the loom can start
to break up, might be worth a check. I had no fault codes with this
problem
I HATE INTERMITANT FAULTS, A PAIN IN THE REAR.
Mike 1995 XJR Auto Plymouth Devon


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

I don’t know the answer to whether a bad ECU could give crazy
readouts…it just depends. ECU’s don’t go bad often, the usual
reports here are ones that got wet and developed corrosion on
terminals and even inside. This unit is easy to get to, it would
pay to look at it. The information I gave you came right out of the
electrical diagnostic section of the shop manual on the JDHT CD
Rom. Serious sporadic problems like you have are often bad
connections or damaged harnesses, especially when hitting a bump
sets them off. I would concentrate there. If you are close to a
deraler, it would not be a bad idea to have the ECU reflashed or
reprogrammed. The battery problem may have violated the software.
Arcing can create RF static and all kinds of violations of the
power to the unit.–
The original message included these comments:

wouldnt the bad ecu show some crazy info on the scanner??


Brian Caro 96XJ6 4.0 63E-TypeS1FHC
Newport News, VA, United States
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In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

If you had a vacuum leak, it would be at its worst at idle, so it’s
probably not that. The symptoms could be as mentioned before, a bad
crank position sensor. This sets the timing and tells the ECU how
fast the engine is turning. It is also the misfire detector.
Another thing could be the MAF. You mentioned cleaning it, but this
sensor is the one that has input into the fuel mixture. If you can
get the car scanned while running, you could find out if the MAF
values are in range. this will also tell yuou if the O2 sensors are
working right. I think you are at the point now where some real
testing needs to happen, and the dealer may be the best place to
go. If I looked at the ECU and it all looked good, I would book the
dealer PDU. If thast’s no good, I would get a real time scan done,
as well as a compression check and a fuel pressure test.–
Brian Caro 96XJ6 4.0 63E-TypeS1FHC
Newport News, VA, United States
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Checked the air intake hoses carefully? particularly underneath? My 95 had a
split that you couldn’t see,just before the supercharger that under torque
was obviously twisting and letting air in. Sometimes would run fine…other
times hardly at all…

good luck

In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Ah, NC! Where in NC? This is one aspect of this community I
don’t think this site / forum fully exploits: there are a
number of active members around NC. Could have had someone
go take a look at the car, give it a test drive.

Hmm… maybe I’ll whip up a quick program to do just that
this weekend :)–
The original message included these comments:

but we havnt had much warm weather here in NJ in the week I have
had the car… Im sure it was warmer in NC when the dealer test
drove it for me 2 weeks agi…

In reply to a message from Brian Caro sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Brian,

the ecu looks to be nice and clean… if I am looking at the ECU!
this car also didnt include an owners manual… :frowning: but there is
two modules in the fuse box in the trunk… I think one has a
sticker for seat module or something, and I assume the other one is
the ECU??

also, I just want to clairify, that the symptoms dont changer or
correspond with hitting bumps…

if I can corfirm the location of the ECU, I will check it closer…
Is the suggestion to open it up and look for corrosion or such
inside the ECU??, or am I just looking for corrision on the plug
terminals??

Thanks!
Ron–
The original message included these comments:

I don’t know the answer to whether a bad ECU could give crazy
readouts…it just depends. ECU’s don’t go bad often, the usual
reports here are ones that got wet and developed corrosion on
terminals and even inside. This unit is easy to get to, it would
pay to look at it. The information I gave you came right out of the
electrical diagnostic section of the shop manual on the JDHT CD
Rom. Serious sporadic problems like you have are often bad
connections or damaged harnesses, especially when hitting a bump
sets them off. I would concentrate there. If you are close to a
deraler, it would not be a bad idea to have the ECU reflashed or


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from Brian Caro sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

brian,

i have a good CPS sensor on my crashed 95 4.0 XJS… I swap it
over ‘just in case’… Maybe i’ll get lucky…

We did all our testing on the snap on scan tool with live data
while driving… thats why we are sooooo stumped… everything the
scanner can show us checks out fine!! It even performs an 02 range
scan and such to test out the 02 sensors and all 4 pass fine…

Im also going to swap over the fuel regulator from the xjs… im
starting to wonder about that… since there plugs are sooted, and
fuel mileage is real bad… theres no real way to test the
regulator…??

MAF checks out good based on its values on the scan tool…

thanks again guys! all lets keep brain storming on this!

Ron–
The original message included these comments:

If you had a vacuum leak, it would be at its worst at idle, so it’s
probably not that. The symptoms could be as mentioned before, a bad
crank position sensor. This sets the timing and tells the ECU how
fast the engine is turning. It is also the misfire detector.
Another thing could be the MAF. You mentioned cleaning it, but this
sensor is the one that has input into the fuel mixture. If you can
get the car scanned while running, you could find out if the MAF
values are in range. this will also tell yuou if the O2 sensors are
working right. I think you are at the point now where some real
testing needs to happen, and the dealer may be the best place to
go. If I looked at the ECU and it all looked good, I would book the


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:

Look very closely at your exhaust manifolds.
They are very prone to cracking on the supercharged models.
The cracks apparently allow O2 to sneak into the exhaust where it
is seen by the O2 sensors. The ECU interprets this as a lean
mixture and richens the mixture.

I had a very similar problem last summer but mine would run great
for days and then stumble all over itself. The plugs were
definitely showing very rich when it was running poorly, and very
normal when running great. I welded the cracks in both manifolds
about 5,ooo miles ago. The problem has not come back, yet!

Good Luck, Pete–
The original message included these comments:

month. I bought a 97 xjr with 85000 miles and had it shipped to me
here in NJ… I believe the dealer when he said it ran fine there
when he took it on a test drive before I agreed to buy it…


SpeedyPAL 1995 XJR
Milford / OH, United States
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In reply to a message from andyman32 sent Fri 16 Feb 2007:

Andy,

it was a used car lot over in near Statesville… I probably should
have checked here first, but the pics looked great… the saleman
seemed like a straight shooter… I still believe him… I feel this
is something that happened with the battery cable issue, or it
really is okay in warmer weather… I cant imagine he knew… I was
originally driving down to get it, and he would have known I would
have killed him if I drove there and the car didnt run right and
couldnt have beem drivin back to NJ… After we made the end deal, I
found a carrier to move it here for me…

And even so, im still happy with the purchase… 8500$ for a clean
97 with 85,000 miles… 500 to ship here… I couldnt touch anything
here for 9K$. and its the colors we wanted… Anthrite(sp?), with
the two tone black/grey interior…

Thanks
Ron–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from eyeinstine sent Thu 15 Feb 2007:
Ah, NC! Where in NC? This is one aspect of this community I
don’t think this site / forum fully exploits: there are a
number of active members around NC. Could have had someone
go take a look at the car, give it a test drive.
Hmm… maybe I’ll whip up a quick program to do just that
this weekend :slight_smile:


eyeinstine
North Hanover Twp/NJ, United States
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Hahah,

I had the same problem years ago on a trip to Vegas.

I blew the hose clamp off that kevlar or whatever hose section under the
intercooler and the car was making horrible Moby Dick whale noises on
acceleration.

Got the last LARGE hose clamp at the Jag dealer and fixed it in the parking
garage!

XJRGUY> From: Dean kitching@bigpond.com

Reply-To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:43:27 +1100
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] 97 XJR problems… Im STUMPED! help!

Checked the air intake hoses carefully? particularly underneath? My 95 had a
split that you couldn’t see,just before the supercharger that under torque
was obviously twisting and letting air in. Sometimes would run fine…other
times hardly at all…

good luck