Someone is trying to get $18K for their 97 XJR! Plus he
thinks it has ‘‘over 400HP.’’ People need to start thinking a
little before making listings.
Don’t get me wrong I think these cars should worth this
kind of money but realistically the market won’t pay him
more than maybe $7K.–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from AJ16er sent Sat 27 Sep 2008:
Dreaming!!!
As we all know, the XJR’s are way undervalued. However, I’m one of
the few that feel they will be highly desired someday! Especially
the 4.0 SIX XJR’s.
Although the average price is way low, it’s interesting how few
95,96,97 XJR’s are actually listed on Craigslist, Ebay, etc.
compared to other models. As the years go by, there will probably
be a relatively small number of original X300 XJR’s that survive
the present low value to repair cost ratio. The XJR 4.0-6cyl. is to
cool to not be desirable someday! Thats my gut feeling. If I’m
wrong, I have three original XJR’s that I can donate to a museum
someday!–
The original message included these comments:
Someone is trying to get $18K for their 97 XJR! Plus he
thinks it has ‘‘over 400HP.’’ People need to start thinking a
little before making listings.
Don’t get me wrong I think these cars should worth this
kind of money but realistically the market won’t pay him
more than maybe $7K.
–
RJMGOLF
Temecula/California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from RJMGOLF sent Sat 27 Sep 2008:
It’s a really nice car no doubt. Just the GM transmission
in it is the weak spot.–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from AJ16er sent Sun 28 Sep 2008:
The GM transmission appears to be far more reliable than the MB
transmission used in the XJR8.
Apart from occasional loom damage, these GM boxes are very
reliable.
If anything the weak spot (if the XJR6 indeed has one), would be
the diff.
Jamie–
The original message included these comments:
It’s a really nice car no doubt. Just the GM transmission
in it is the weak spot.
–
Newtown, Powys, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from ghound sent Sun 28 Sep 2008:
Reliable according to whom? Just about all X300s I see with
blown transmissions are either the XJR or XJ12 versions.
Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve seen one ZF
transmissioned X300 with a bad gear box.
GM makes nothing but unreliable low quality crap.–
The original message included these comments:
The GM transmission appears to be far more reliable than the MB
transmission used in the XJR8.
Apart from occasional loom damage, these GM boxes are very
reliable.
If anything the weak spot (if the XJR6 indeed has one), would be
the diff.
–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from ghound sent Sun 28 Sep 2008:
Reliable according to whom? Just about all X300s I see with
blown transmissions are either the XJR or XJ12 versions.
Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve seen one ZF
transmissioned X300 with a bad gear box.
GM makes nothing but unreliable low quality crap.–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from AJ16er sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
Jaguar have used what is basically the same turbo GM box, in 3
speed format on the Series 3 V12, then the electronic 4 speed on
the XJR and V12.
These boxes rarely fail. The added complexity of the electronic
control, coupled with a poorly designed Jaguar gearbox loom has
caused some people to pronounce boxes as ‘‘blown’’. When in fact the
unwisely short Jaguar (not GM) loom is the fault. In a very recent
JWM article detailing auto boxes used on the XJS lineage, the GM
box is stated to be very reliable.
This gear box was used extensively in Europe on the Vauxhall (GM)
Omega models, some BMW models and some Range Rover variants. It
has proved very reliable.
The V8s 5 speed MB box and 5 Speed ZF boxes are the ones that have
caused much concern among dealers.
Jamie–
Newtown, Powys, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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So I take it you just really don’t care for GM produced hardware?
Earl Kiker— On Sun, 9/28/08, AJ16er thad83@comcast.net wrote:
From: AJ16er thad83@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [x300] More X300 Ebay mayham.
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 8:33 AM
In reply to a message from RJMGOLF sent Sat 27 Sep 2008:It’s a really nice car no doubt. Just the GM
transmission
in it is the weak spot.AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM
[forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at
http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from Earl Kiker sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
Yes, not at all. Every single GM product I’ve ever came in
contact with has been a complete lemon. That is why I cringe
whatever I heard how the XJR has a gm transmission.–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
In reply to a message from AJ16er sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
FWIW my old 84 XJ-S needed its GM transmission rebuilt at
50k miles.
Steve–
mando
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from AJ16er sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
The crazy thing about all of this, is these GM boxes were made by
the millions, and used for years on practcially every thing GM
made. You see the most raggedy Chevy pick-up running down the road,
falling apart, obviously poorly maintained, and the transmissions
work fine. I always wondered exactly what the Jag Engineers did to
them when they were used on Jaguars.–
uncle
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
I don’t think Jaguar spec’d any major changes. I’m guessing just torque
converter and valve body “tuning” (for lack of a better word) to suit the
application. The oft mentioned wiring harness problem is obviously a Jaguar
issue, not a GM issue.
The 4L80E is a good tranny. Personally I don’t thinks its quite as
bulletproof as some others seem to think but that’s neither here not there.
It certainly is not a sub-par design by any stretch of the imagination.
Sometimes those who have had some bad luck express their opinions very
assertively, in the hopes, I guess, that others will accept their words as
the final, factual analysis of the matter.
Google the designation of any automatic transmission (Ford AOD, ZFxxx,
Chrysler 42RE, etc) and you’ll find pages and pages modifications to correct
design problems, consumer complaints, and consumer praise. I’ve tried as
many as I can think of and have found no exceptions so far.
Now, on to the “picking fly s**t out of the pepper” department where I’ll
add the the 4L80E, although indeed manufactured in huge numbers, is not what
you see in the majority of GM vehicles. The 4L80E is installed selectively,
mostly in the models with a GVW of 8600 and higher—mostly 3/4 ton and
1-ton trucks.
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “uncle” dbernard@qts-inc.com
The crazy thing about all of this, is these GM boxes were made by
the millions, and used for years on practcially every thing GM
made. You see the most raggedy Chevy pick-up running down the road,
falling apart, obviously poorly maintained, and the transmissions
work fine. I always wondered exactly what the Jag Engineers did to
them when they were used on Jaguars.
In reply to a message from uncle sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
How do you know that truck didn’t have all but 100K on it and had
the transmission rebuilt 60K ago? Every old gm truck I see is
raggy, rusted, and barely running. They really are crap.
Now Ford, that is a quailty truck. I have an old 94 Ford Crown
Victoria with 155K on it with original motor/tranny and it runs and
shifts like new. And it wasn’t pampered it’s whole life by any
means.–
The original message included these comments:
The crazy thing about all of this, is these GM boxes were made by
the millions, and used for years on practcially every thing GM
made. You see the most raggedy Chevy pick-up running down the road,
falling apart, obviously poorly maintained, and the transmissions
work fine. I always wondered exactly what the Jag Engineers did to
them when they were used on Jaguars.
–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
What’s your basis for calling these GM trannies trash?
Give us some concrete proof?? Don’t just sound off.
I have owned cars with these trannies - Jaguars and otherwise -for at least
15 years - never had any problem.
Jon----- Original Message -----
From: “AJ16er” thad83@comcast.net
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [x300] More X300 Ebay mayham.
In reply to a message from uncle sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
Big deal. Lots of GM (or Chrysler, or Honda, Jaguar, or whatever) do the
same.
But, no matter. Your ludicrous assertions, which by the way greatly diminish
the credibility of anything else you post, are obviously designed to just
stir the pot. Some of us (me, for one) foolishly take the bait and pile on.
I’m wising up, and suggest others do the same.
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “AJ16er” thad83@comcast.net
How do you know that truck didn’t have all but 100K on it and had
the transmission rebuilt 60K ago? Every old gm truck I see is
raggy, rusted, and barely running. They really are crap.Now Ford, that is a quailty truck. I have an old 94 Ford Crown
Victoria with 155K on it with original motor/tranny and it runs and
shifts like new. And it wasn’t pampered it’s whole life by any
means.
In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
Anecdotal: I own a Chev half-ton with the 4L60E, which is
just the old 700R4 with the electronic servos. Yup- it ‘‘blew
up’’… with 257K hard farm km on it. Beaten on like the
proverbial red-headed step-child.
Yes, the early (95, 96) 4L60Es were weak in trucks, and not
as stout as the old TH400- but the later ones and the 4L80Es
were near-bulletproof. Heaven knows how Jag could b*gger it
up (if indeed they do). No way can a Jag sedan put more
‘‘applied torque’’ through a tranny than a >5000 lb. Yank truck
pulling a farm wagon, a horsebox, or running 4WD with a G80
locker.–
Cressy
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Doug, you are right! He is just stirring the pot. Let him froth at the
mouth - not worth paying any attention to.
Jon----- Original Message -----
From: “Doug Dwyer” dougdwyer1@comcast.net
To: x300@lofty.jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [x300] More X300 Ebay mayham.
Big deal. Lots of GM (or Chrysler, or Honda, Jaguar, or whatever) do the
same.But, no matter. Your ludicrous assertions, which by the way greatly
diminish the credibility of anything else you post, are obviously designed
to just stir the pot. Some of us (me, for one) foolishly take the bait and
pile on. I’m wising up, and suggest others do the same.Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “AJ16er” thad83@comcast.net
How do you know that truck didn’t have all but 100K on it and had
the transmission rebuilt 60K ago? Every old gm truck I see is
raggy, rusted, and barely running. They really are crap.
In reply to a message from Jon Muurmann sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
I’ve already said it, EVERY single GM product I’ve ever came in
contact with has been a low quality pile of unreliable crap. And my
family has had about seven of them over the years, NEVER again.
Like for example take a brand new 2005 Impala.
10K miles, the transmission is shot.
20K miles, engine blows up.
25k second transmission goes.
Not to mention constant electrical, ball joint, and countless
other issues in between.
Or how about a 1988 Buick Regal back in 98 with 100K on the clock:
A/C compressor blows
Heater blow breaks
Alternator goes
2 fuel injectors go
Transmission breaks, is rebuilt and falls apart again after a day
Interior literally falls apart
Wipe switch/motor breaks
Ignition switch goes
Normal ‘‘wear and tear’’ you say? This all happened within 7 months
and 3k miles!
Or how about a new 1991 Oldsmobile Cutless Calias (whatever that
sh*tbox was called)
20K-paint starts fading on the whole car
30K-massive crankcase gasket leak developes
40K-leak comes back
40K-ignition switch goes
45K-alternator fries
55k-water pump goes
70K-radiator goes
80K- transmission goes
There is much more, I just forgot.
So as you can see even though I may not have contact with this
particular transmission, I’ve had very bad experiences with gm cars.
I am not trying to ‘‘bait’’ anyone, just posting my opinion based on
reality. If you or Mr. Doug don’t like it, I can not help you with
that.–
The original message included these comments:
What’s your basis for calling these GM trannies trash?
Give us some concrete proof?? Don’t just sound off.
I have owned cars with these trannies - Jaguars and otherwise -for at least
15 years - never had any problem.
–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
And I have a 1999 S-10 Pickup with 105K miles that has run beautifully for 9
years without needing anything but regular maintenance. So what’s your
point? Do you think seven cars out of tens of millions over 20 years is a
statistically significant sample? Extrapolating from that nearly
infinitesimal sample size is beyond illogical. Your reality is not reality
any more than mine is for the vast majority of GM car and truck owners. I
think that point is pretty well proven every time you bring this up and get
little, if any, agreement.
This is a Jaguar forum, not a GM forum. If you want to do something
constructive to make your point, go through the archives and create a list
of reported 4L80E failures and a list of reported ZF autobox failures.
Include the screen names of those who suffered them, their causes, and their
resolutions. Compare the number of failures to the production numbers for
the models involved. Then you can comment calmly, with data to back you up,
on the comparative failure rates of the two tranny makers. Until then no
more shrill generalizations of GM products or their use in Jaguars. Limit
your comments to rational, unemotional, helpful posts on issues with and
repair, maintenance, and enjoyment of your Jaguar.
Thanks,
Mark Stephenson, X300 Admin
owner-x300@jag-lovers.org-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x300@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x300@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of AJ16er
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:00 PM
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] More X300 Ebay mayham.
In reply to a message from Jon Muurmann sent Mon 29 Sep 2008:
I’ve already said it, EVERY single GM product I’ve ever came in
contact with has been a low quality pile of unreliable crap. And my
family has had about seven of them over the years, NEVER again.
Like for example take a brand new 2005 Impala.
10K miles, the transmission is shot.
20K miles, engine blows up.
25k second transmission goes.
Not to mention constant electrical, ball joint, and countless
other issues in between.
Or how about a 1988 Buick Regal back in 98 with 100K on the clock:
A/C compressor blows
Heater blow breaks
Alternator goes
2 fuel injectors go
Transmission breaks, is rebuilt and falls apart again after a day
Interior literally falls apart
Wipe switch/motor breaks
Ignition switch goes
Normal ‘‘wear and tear’’ you say? This all happened within 7 months
and 3k miles!
Or how about a new 1991 Oldsmobile Cutless Calias (whatever that
sh*tbox was called)
20K-paint starts fading on the whole car
30K-massive crankcase gasket leak developes
40K-leak comes back
40K-ignition switch goes
45K-alternator fries
55k-water pump goes
70K-radiator goes
80K- transmission goes
There is much more, I just forgot.
So as you can see even though I may not have contact with this
particular transmission, I’ve had very bad experiences with gm cars.
I am not trying to ‘‘bait’’ anyone, just posting my opinion based on
reality. If you or Mr. Doug don’t like it, I can not help you with
that.
–
The original message included these comments:
What’s your basis for calling these GM trannies trash?
Give us some concrete proof?? Don’t just sound off.
I have owned cars with these trannies - Jaguars and otherwise -for at
least
15 years - never had any problem.
–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –
Thank you Mark.
Earl Kiker— On Tue, 9/30/08, Mark Stephenson mark@jag-lovers.org wrote:
From: Mark Stephenson mark@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [x300] More X300 Ebay mayham.
To: x300@lofty.jag-lovers.org
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:43 AM
And I have a 1999 S-10 Pickup with 105K miles that has run
beautifully for 9
years without needing anything but regular maintenance. So
what’s your
point? Do you think seven cars out of tens of millions over
20 years is a
statistically significant sample? Extrapolating from that
nearly
infinitesimal sample size is beyond illogical. Your reality
is not reality
any more than mine is for the vast majority of GM car and
truck owners. I
think that point is pretty well proven every time you bring
this up and get
little, if any, agreement.This is a Jaguar forum, not a GM forum. If you want to do
something
constructive to make your point, go through the archives
and create a list
of reported 4L80E failures and a list of reported ZF
autobox failures.
Include the screen names of those who suffered them, their
causes, and their
resolutions. Compare the number of failures to the
production numbers for
the models involved. Then you can comment calmly, with data
to back you up,
on the comparative failure rates of the two tranny makers.
Until then no
more shrill generalizations of GM products or their use in
Jaguars. Limit
your comments to rational, unemotional, helpful posts on
issues with and
repair, maintenance, and enjoyment of your Jaguar.Thanks,
Mark Stephenson, X300 Admin
owner-x300@jag-lovers.org-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x300@jag-lovers.org
[mailto:owner-x300@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of AJ16er
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:00 PM
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] More X300 Ebay mayham.In reply to a message from Jon Muurmann sent Mon 29 Sep
2008:I’ve already said it, EVERY single GM product I’ve
ever came in
contact with has been a low quality pile of unreliable
crap. And my
family has had about seven of them over the years, NEVER
again.Like for example take a brand new 2005 Impala.
10K miles, the transmission is shot.
20K miles, engine blows up.
25k second transmission goes.
Not to mention constant electrical, ball joint, and
countless
other issues in between.Or how about a 1988 Buick Regal back in 98 with 100K on
the clock:A/C compressor blows
Heater blow breaks
Alternator goes
2 fuel injectors go
Transmission breaks, is rebuilt and falls apart again
after a dayInterior literally falls apart
Wipe switch/motor breaks
Ignition switch goes
Normal ‘‘wear and tear’’ you say? This all
happened within 7 months
and 3k miles!Or how about a new 1991 Oldsmobile Cutless Calias
(whatever that
sh*tbox was called)20K-paint starts fading on the whole car
30K-massive crankcase gasket leak developes
40K-leak comes back
40K-ignition switch goes
45K-alternator fries
55k-water pump goes
70K-radiator goes
80K- transmission goes
There is much more, I just forgot.
So as you can see even though I may not have contact with
this
particular transmission, I’ve had very bad experiences
with gm cars.I am not trying to ‘‘bait’’ anyone, just
posting my opinion based on
reality. If you or Mr. Doug don’t like it, I can not
help you with
that.–
The original message included these comments:What’s your basis for calling these GM trannies
trash?
Give us some concrete proof?? Don’t just sound
off.
I have owned cars with these trannies - Jaguars and
otherwise -for at
least
15 years - never had any problem.–
AJ16er
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM
[forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at
http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –