[x300] paint problem? has anybody had their paint turn cloudy?

X300
21

In reply to a message from NM47Knuck sent Sat 27 May 2006:

Dirt and other products of the environment, plus the sun are harsh
on all paint jobs. If the PO’s did not wash it frequently, then you
know the protential results. A little abrasion here and there and
you have problems.

If it is not too far gone, a decent paint shop should be able to re-
clear the problem panels. Overall success will be a function of
doing it sooner rather than later.

For what it is worth, the same goes for the leather. Keeping it
clean and treated cuts down on abrasion which wears the finish and
will exopose the leather.–
The original message included these comments:

My 1995 VDP with the fading and in places peeling (clear coat only)
paint is Jade green. I love the car, but am sorely disappointed in the
paint. Located in New Mexico, high elevation (7000 ft.) with days over
100 f in summer and below 0 f in winter. Lots and lots of sunshine here

–
uncle
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22

In reply to a message from uncle sent Tue 30 May 2006:

coudnt agre more looking after youre paint work is a must but there
are some of us who look after our car to a very high standerd and
still the overall condition of the paint/clearcoat still looks very
poor compared to other manufactures .my car is garaged everyday
(exept weekends) washed and polished every time it goes out but if
anybodyelse was to look at it they could think its been sitting in
the dessert for 10 years its that bad!!!–
The original message included these comments:

Dirt and other products of the environment, plus the sun are harsh
on all paint jobs. If the PO’s did not wash it frequently, then you

–
deljagman
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23

Del,

No, if you had seen those XJ40s at the test facility after sitting out in
the Arizona sun for 3-4 years, you’d be too embarrassed to drive the car.
They looked like something from a car wax ad.

Don’t forget that unless you owned your car from new, there’s no telling
what the PO did. I foolishly used Greased Lightning to clean a set of dirty
wheels on another car. It immediately turned the clearcoat cloudy. Even if
you did own your car since new, there’s also the possibility that you
encountered some environmental contaminant. A local club member recharged a
battery near his newly repainted (base/clear) XK150. Being diligent, he
removed the caps on the battery. Conditions were just right and the acid
vapors wafted over his car and etched his clearcoat.

You wash and polish your car every time it goes out? every weekend? That may
be the problem. Most polishes have a small amount of abrasives to even out
imperfections in the paint. I scanned through a couple forums and the
consensus is that at most, you’d need to polish your car once a month, but
most do it every two to three.

Check this thread from the AudiWorld Auto Detailing Forum
http://forums.audiworld.com/detail/msgs/7189.phtml.

This snippet was from a detailing professional.------------------------------
You use a polish/cleaner by hand. Yes, you are removing scratches,
oxidation, old wax, etc. Thus, you are removing a very small layer of
paint/clearcoat.

The clearcoat is a top coat. Over time, you will run out. Of course, you
accelerate this process when you use a buffer.

One other note: Not all polishes/cleaners are created equal. Some are more
abrasive than others. This is why you may need a small number of products to
remove the imperfections.

Follow the directions on the bottle. Most state that you should use once or
twice a year.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
'52 XK120 S673129, '59 Mk1, '84,'85,'86 &'95 XJ6

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x300@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x300@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of deljagman
Sent: 05/30/2006 6:40 AM
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] paint problem? has anybody had their paint turn cloudy?

In reply to a message from uncle sent Tue 30 May 2006:

coudnt agre more looking after youre paint work is a must but there
are some of us who look after our car to a very high standerd and
still the overall condition of the paint/clearcoat still looks very
poor compared to other manufactures .my car is garaged everyday
(exept weekends) washed and polished every time it goes out but if
anybodyelse was to look at it they could think its been sitting in
the dessert for 10 years its that bad!!!

The original message included these comments:

Dirt and other products of the environment, plus the sun are harsh
on all paint jobs. If the PO’s did not wash it frequently, then you

–
deljagman
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24

Maybe he just meant waxed. Sometimes the terms are used
interchangably, even though they do mean different things.
Roger

At 02:00 PM 5/30/2006, you wrote:>Del,

No, if you had seen those XJ40s at the test facility after sitting out in
the Arizona sun for 3-4 years, you’d be too embarrassed to drive the car.
They looked like something from a car wax ad.

Don’t forget that unless you owned your car from new, there’s no telling
what the PO did. I foolishly used Greased Lightning to clean a set of dirty
wheels on another car. It immediately turned the clearcoat cloudy. Even if
you did own your car since new, there’s also the possibility that you
encountered some environmental contaminant. A local club member recharged a
battery near his newly repainted (base/clear) XK150. Being diligent, he
removed the caps on the battery. Conditions were just right and the acid
vapors wafted over his car and etched his clearcoat.

You wash and polish your car every time it goes out? every weekend? That may
be the problem. Most polishes have a small amount of abrasives to even out
imperfections in the paint. I scanned through a couple forums and the
consensus is that at most, you’d need to polish your car once a month, but
most do it every two to three.

Check this thread from the AudiWorld Auto Detailing Forum
http://forums.audiworld.com/detail/msgs/7189.phtml.

This snippet was from a detailing professional.

You use a polish/cleaner by hand. Yes, you are removing scratches,
oxidation, old wax, etc. Thus, you are removing a very small layer of
paint/clearcoat.

The clearcoat is a top coat. Over time, you will run out. Of course, you
accelerate this process when you use a buffer.

One other note: Not all polishes/cleaners are created equal. Some are more
abrasive than others. This is why you may need a small number of products to
remove the imperfections.

Follow the directions on the bottle. Most state that you should use once or
twice a year.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
'52 XK120 S673129, '59 Mk1, '84,'85,'86 &'95 XJ6

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x300@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x300@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of deljagman
Sent: 05/30/2006 6:40 AM
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [x300] paint problem? has anybody had their paint turn cloudy?

In reply to a message from uncle sent Tue 30 May 2006:

coudnt agre more looking after youre paint work is a must but there
are some of us who look after our car to a very high standerd and
still the overall condition of the paint/clearcoat still looks very
poor compared to other manufactures .my car is garaged everyday
(exept weekends) washed and polished every time it goes out but if
anybodyelse was to look at it they could think its been sitting in
the dessert for 10 years its that bad!!!

The original message included these comments:

Dirt and other products of the environment, plus the sun are harsh
on all paint jobs. If the PO’s did not wash it frequently, then you

–
deljagman
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25

In reply to a message from Roger Coole sent Tue 30 May 2006:

hi
guys just to clear things up polish does indeed cointain abrasive
in it to lightly cut the paint what I should have said wich was
pointed out was wax! and no amount of waxing can damage youre paint
as it builds up layers on your clearcoat which prevent harmfull uv
rays from damaging youre paint but I woudnt recomend canubia wax it
melts in strong sunlight and dirt and grime just seem to stick to it

thanks guys !!–
The original message included these comments:

Maybe he just meant waxed. Sometimes the terms are used
interchangably, even though they do mean different things.

–
deljagman
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26

Does anyone use clay to smooth the paint/clearcoat surface before waxing??
Roger
98 BRG XJ8L

At 06:37 PM 5/30/2006, you wrote:>In reply to a message from Roger Coole sent Tue 30 May 2006:

hi
guys just to clear things up polish does indeed cointain abrasive
in it to lightly cut the paint what I should have said wich was
pointed out was wax! and no amount of waxing can damage youre paint
as it builds up layers on your clearcoat which prevent harmfull uv
rays from damaging youre paint but I woudnt recomend canubia wax it
melts in strong sunlight and dirt and grime just seem to stick to it

thanks guys !!

The original message included these comments:

Maybe he just meant waxed. Sometimes the terms are used
interchangably, even though they do mean different things.

–
deljagman
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27

In reply to a message from Roger Coole sent Wed 31 May 2006:

Roger,

I clay my car at the beginning of each summer. I’ve bought the
clay for this years treatment now, all that I need is for it to
stop bl**dy well raining.–
The original message included these comments:

Does anyone use clay to smooth the paint/clearcoat surface before waxing??
Roger
98 BRG XJ8L

–
Gary London,UK, 98 XJ8 4 www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1122951577
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28

Mark,

I agree with you that fluke circumstances can cause damage, but these
are not very common. I have been reading about this issue with X300’s
for about 3 years now (here on Jag-Lovers) and I think that we are way
past the point where everytime somebody shows up here with cloudy paint
jobs that the owner, or PO, should get blamed for the problem. I have
had other Jags, Fords, Chevy’s and Toyotas under exactly the same
conditions (and they all had previous owners) and not one of them has
developed this sort of problem. The thing these problem paint jobs all
have in common is that they are X300’s with a few early X308’s starting
to show up with the same symptoms. This points to a problem with the
process and/or materials used at the factory.

Could the cloudy paint problems have been eliminated with “proper” care
of the exterior of the car? Not according to the people who have been
doing exactly that and still have this sort of problem. The cloudy paint
issue seems to be independent of whether the car was waxed on a regular
basis or not and whether it was garaged or parked outdoors. My issue is
that this sort of problem should not be an issue on a car of this
caliber and going by the number of complaints that get posted on this
list about it, it obviously is.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Tom Souther
1995 VDP 88k miles with cloudy paint and in places peeling clear coat

mark@jag-lovers.org wrote:>Del,

No, if you had seen those XJ40s at the test facility after sitting out in
the Arizona sun for 3-4 years, you’d be too embarrassed to drive the car.
They looked like something from a car wax ad.

Don’t forget that unless you owned your car from new, there’s no telling
what the PO did. I foolishly used Greased Lightning to clean a set of dirty
wheels on another car. It immediately turned the clearcoat cloudy. Even if
you did own your car since new, there’s also the possibility that you
encountered some environmental contaminant. A local club member recharged a
battery near his newly repainted (base/clear) XK150. Being diligent, he
removed the caps on the battery. Conditions were just right and the acid
vapors wafted over his car and etched his clearcoat.

You wash and polish your car every time it goes out? every weekend? That may
be the problem. Most polishes have a small amount of abrasives to even out
imperfections in the paint. I scanned through a couple forums and the
consensus is that at most, you’d need to polish your car once a month, but
most do it every two to three.

Check this thread from the AudiWorld Auto Detailing Forum
http://forums.audiworld.com/detail/msgs/7189.phtml.

This snippet was from a detailing professional.

29

In reply to a message from NM47Knuck sent Wed 31 May 2006:

What colors are having the problems? I live in a very hot place,
lots of sun, high humidity, and minimal garage facilties. My
locale has had a Jag dealer for 38 years+, and I would say this is
a decent Jag town. I have owned two and have collectively driven
them about 280K miles.
Other than Series III’s, a few XJ’s, I have not seen one X300/X308
with bad paint.
I have seen lost of other makes with problems, how about those
small Dodges wiuth the paint that comes off in sheets?
Is this a situation that is confined to a narrow range or single
color?–
The original message included these comments:

I agree with you that fluke circumstances can cause damage, but these
are not very common. I have been reading about this issue with X300’s
for about 3 years now (here on Jag-Lovers) and I think that we are way
past the point where everytime somebody shows up here with cloudy paint

–
uncle
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30

In reply to a message from uncle sent Wed 31 May 2006:

I’ve had my 97 for over four years. I am the second owner. It was
in the previous owners garage when I picked it up and it has spent
it’s life in my garage. It is driven only a few times a week. Clear
coat on the hood is failing - roof is questionable but nowhere near
what’s happening on the hood.

If it makes any difference color is Jade Green.–
The original message included these comments:

Other than Series III’s, a few XJ’s, I have not seen one X300/X308
with bad paint.

–
XJeff 97 XJ6L
New Bern, NC, United States
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31

In reply to a message from XJeff sent Wed 31 May 2006:

Do you think it can be repaired?–
The original message included these comments:

it’s life in my garage. It is driven only a few times a week. Clear
coat on the hood is failing - roof is questionable but nowhere near
what’s happening on the hood.

–
uncle
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32

In reply to a message from uncle sent Wed 31 May 2006:

you wood think that high himidity and lots of sun would be a good
test for the jaguars paint but amazingly its at jaguars home in the
uk were I have recived 70% of complaints it would seem that our
cold damp and very changeble weather is the best test of jaguar
clearcoat they really fall apart here more than any other makes–
deljagman
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33

My paint code is HEV, the trim code is HEZ, the mfg date is 1/95. The
color is Jade green. The clear coat is peeling in two places on the
trunk lid and one on the hood. Cloudy paint on large percentage of right
rear fender and two spots (about 8" dia) on roof between sunroof and
windshield. Probably others that I just can’t think of right now.

Tom Souther
1995 VDP 88k miles, cloudy paint and in places clear coat peeling

dbernard@qts-inc.com wrote:>In reply to a message from NM47Knuck sent Wed 31 May 2006:

What colors are having the problems? I live in a very hot place,
lots of sun, high humidity, and minimal garage facilties. My
locale has had a Jag dealer for 38 years+, and I would say this is
a decent Jag town. I have owned two and have collectively driven
them about 280K miles.
Other than Series III’s, a few XJ’s, I have not seen one X300/X308
with bad paint.
I have seen lost of other makes with problems, how about those
small Dodges wiuth the paint that comes off in sheets?
Is this a situation that is confined to a narrow range or single
color?

The original message included these comments:

I agree with you that fluke circumstances can cause damage, but these
are not very common. I have been reading about this issue with X300’s
for about 3 years now (here on Jag-Lovers) and I think that we are way
past the point where everytime somebody shows up here with cloudy paint

–
uncle
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–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

34

In reply to a message from NM47Knuck sent Thu 1 Jun 2006:

Well, that is two for Jade Green, maybe we are getting somewhere.
Who else is having paint problmes, and what colors are we talking
about?–
The original message included these comments:

My paint code is HEV, the trim code is HEZ, the mfg date is 1/95. The
color is Jade green. The clear coat is peeling in two places on the
trunk lid and one on the hood. Cloudy paint on large percentage of right

–
uncle
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35

In reply to a message from uncle sent Wed 31 May 2006:

Doug,

I’m hopeful that it can. It’s been on my list of expeditures to
make as funds allow. Unfortunately, I just had to drop 2 grand on a
new transmission for the Ford van so available funds are again
depeleted.

It has not started to flake yet so hopefully underlying paint has
not oxidized and repair can be limited to the clear coat.–
The original message included these comments:

Do you think it can be repaired?

–
XJeff 97 XJ6L
New Bern, NC, United States
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36

Where my clear coat is peeling, the paint is not cloudy.

Tom Souther
1995 VDP 88k miles peeling clear coat, cloudy paint in different areas

jeff.moore@kempent.com wrote:>In reply to a message from uncle sent Wed 31 May 2006:

Doug,

I’m hopeful that it can. It’s been on my list of expeditures to
make as funds allow. Unfortunately, I just had to drop 2 grand on a
new transmission for the Ford van so available funds are again
depeleted.

It has not started to flake yet so hopefully underlying paint has
not oxidized and repair can be limited to the clear coat.

The original message included these comments:

Do you think it can be repaired?

–
XJeff 97 XJ6L
New Bern, NC, United States
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37

In reply to a message from NM47Knuck sent Thu 1 Jun 2006:

it seems darker colors suffer more had lots of complaints for
saphire blue closly followed by jade green but only 2 for silver
and none for white any white or black problems out there?–
deljagman
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38

In reply to a message from deljagman sent Thu 1 Jun 2006:

My 95 is Titanium (LEV) which is a dark metallic color that I would
think falls in the ‘‘Silver/Grey’’ family. I have no problems other
than an environmental spot or two, but no fading/lifting/dullness.
When you rank the colors with problems, where are you getting the
information?–
The original message included these comments:

it seems darker colors suffer more had lots of complaints for
saphire blue closly followed by jade green but only 2 for silver
and none for white any white or black problems out there?

–
uncle
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39

The fact that paint durability is tied to color is well-known, as different pigment compounds are used for paints of different
colors.

Traditionally, reds and maroons are the worst colors for durability and white is one of the best. The reason white is so durable is
that a very stable compound, titanium dioxide, is the primary pigment used in white paints.

Another reason darker colors fare worse is due to the subtractive nature of colored finishes. A black finish looks black because it
absorbs all the colors in visible light. A white finish looks white because it reflects all of the light’s colors. A red finish
absorbs all of the colors in visible light except for red.

Best regards,

Gregory Wells 800-331-2193 x103
Coventry West, Inc. Atlanta, GA
Jaguar & Land Rover Parts
(New, Rebuilt & Used) www.coventrywest.com

-----Original Message-----
deljagman posted:> In reply to a message from NM47Knuck sent Thu 1 Jun 2006:

it seems darker colors suffer more had lots of complaints for
saphire blue closly followed by jade green but only 2 for silver
and none for white any white or black problems out there?

40

In reply to a message from Gregory Wells sent Thu 1 Jun 2006:

I’m pretty sure my '95 roof is a re-coat (don’t know when or even
if you want to count this in). It’s Flamenco Red; has cloudy
conditions and peeling clear (roof only). I’ve had it for 18
months… in that time probably had about three ‘‘polishings’’. But
I’ve recently taken a ‘‘no-touch’’ policy between washings, never
wash in sun, using only water, small amount of detergent and micro-
fiber towel only. I guess I’ll wax a couple times a year.

Come to think of it, I believe I only polished in response to the
cloudiness – as I read here, that was probably a vicious,
destructive cycle.
Hmmm…–
95 XJ6 (US)
Memphis, TN, United States
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