[x300] Removing starter motor


(jagsean) #1

Hi guys, my brother has a 1996 xj6 sovereign and he,s having
problems starting it when the key is turned it just clic,s so im
thinking its the starter motor so iv crueled underneath the car
and gave the starter motor a few taps with a bar but still no
joy,so oviously it needs to come off but I can only see 1 nut from
underneath the car and can not find the other 1? Could anyone tell
me how you get the starter motor off or is there a guide somewhere?
I have searched the archive,s but cant find any info.Any help would
be much appreciated.

cheers sean.–
jagsean
birmingham, United Kingdom
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(JozJag) #2

In reply to a message from jagsean sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Before I would go to the trouble and expense of replacing the
starter, I would make certain it was getting a full 12 volts.

Be sure both the battery, and all of the cables ( including
grounds) are in good order.

Cheers,

Dave–
http://picasaweb.google.com/JozJag/JozJagJaguar
Albuquerque,New Mexico, United States
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(Jack Hollibaugh) #3

I’m with Dave. There are plenty of things that won’t allow the starter to
turn when you want it to. I’d check out the easy things first; maybe you’ve
done that; if so, good; if not, umm check those first.

I never took a starter off one of these buggers but it’s probably not much
different than any other car. Pull the battery cables (negative first)
crawl under the car, unhook the electrical leads to the starter. Pull the
bolts that hold the starter on and viola! Starter in hands, unless it falls
on your head (I had that happen once).

But, bad battery and dirty cable connections are more typically the issues
around a non-turning starter. I’d check them out first.

Cheers,
Jack - '99 XJ8L PA USA

< snip >

In reply to a message from jagsean sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Before I would go to the trouble and expense of replacing the
starter, I would make certain it was getting a full 12 volts.

Be sure both the battery, and all of the cables ( including
grounds) are in good order.

Cheers,

Dave–
Albuquerque,New Mexico, United States
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< snip >


(Win) #4

In reply to a message from Jack Hollibaugh sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

The top starter bolt is notoriously difficult to access.
Being right hand drive should make it a bit easier since
there’s not brake booster or steering column in the way.

The bolt can be hidden by the foam insulation above the
gearbox and bell housing.

Easiest method I’ve read about was a very long extension
with a flex joint at the socket to allow access from behind
and below the starter.

Still, I fully concur with the others. The symptoms sound
more like poor voltage to the starter rather than a duff
starter.–
The original message included these comments:

I’m with Dave. There are plenty of things that won’t allow the starter to
turn when you want it to. I’d check out the easy things first; maybe you’ve
done that; if so, good; if not, umm check those first.
I never took a starter off one of these buggers but it’s probably not much
different than any other car. Pull the battery cables (negative first)
crawl under the car, unhook the electrical leads to the starter. Pull the
bolts that hold the starter on and viola! Starter in hands, unless it falls
on your head (I had that happen once).
But, bad battery and dirty cable connections are more typically the issues
around a non-turning starter. I’d check them out first.


91 XJ6, 93 Sov, 97 Sov – Driveway’s crowded!
Tampa Fl, United States
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(sfj642) #5

In reply to a message from Win sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Sean

Please ignore Jack; he makes it sound so simple and he’s
obviously never removed a Jaguar XJ6 starter. Certainly
never taken the top bolt out !

I agree with the others - most likely one of the relays etc
and not the motor itself.

Have a look at the two sections about the starter motor on
my page http://tinyurl.com/2g9zcxu BEFORE embarking on any
attempt to get the motor out !

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth
http://www.watchet.dolphins.btinternet.co.uk/

I want to live in a world where a chicken can cross a road
without its motives being questioned–
The original message included these comments:

The top starter bolt is notoriously difficult to access.

crawl under the car, unhook the electrical leads to the starter. Pull the
bolts that hold the starter on and viola! Starter in hands, unless it falls
on your head (I had that happen once).


Jim Butterworth http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1262090878
Somerset, United Kingdom
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(6cyl.DOHC) #6

In reply to a message from sfj642 sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Embarked on this job today. However I have remove all of the inlet
system and heater hoses. Access was easy to the bolt on the starter
that is accessed from the engine side. That top bolt can’t really
be removed from the engine so I’m glad of the suggestions of how to
remove it from the gearbox side.
But check att other causes of failure to start as the starter
motoer would be the last place I’d me looking.
Did you wiggle the (auto) gearstick?–
Lawrence. 1995 XJR. 1997 3.2 Sport. Scotland.
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(sfj642) #7

In reply to a message from 6cyl.DOHC sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Lawrence

Good point - in all the theory I had forgotten that common
failure point.

Wiggle the gearstick in Park and you should hear the relays
click; if not then perhaps the microswitch in the centre
console is faulty.

A new microswitch would certainly be preferable to any of
the other options !

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth
http://www.watchet.dolphins.btinternet.co.uk/

The above opinions are not necessarily my own; my dog has
learned to type–
The original message included these comments:

Did you wiggle the (auto) gearstick?


Jim Butterworth http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1262090878
Somerset, United Kingdom
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(Jack Hollibaugh) #8

Haha, you’re right Jim, I never pulled a starter from an XJ6 but really
though (and I’m saying this with lightness and jest), don’t you take the
bolts out? I mean some bolts come out easy, some bolts come out tough but
they all come out with properly placed perseverance. Tongue placement seems
to help in certain situations.

I guess I could have said "take out the bolt, grunting and groaning for a
while, head in to the house for a beer and complain to your wife, who
doesn’t seem to care but says “yes dear, I’m sure you’ll get it.” Head back
out to the car and once you get all comfy under the starter realize that
you’ve forgotten the socket and ratchet; climb back out and look for the
tools that are nowhere to be seen. Head back inside and retrieve the tools
from the fridge. Head back out and get back under the car, get all comfy,
wipe the drops of PB Blaster from your face that drips from the bolts you
sprayed. Get the socket threaded up to the bolt using whatever means.
Reach your hand up to see if the socket is on the bolt straight. Turn your
head quickly trying to get the mud and rusted metal that fell into your eye
out… and on and on but well that would take too long. So I just said,
“Remove the bolts.”

Sorry if I didn’t portray the essence of the job difficulty but still I
think the procedure was more or less correct :LOL:

And again, I mean this alllllllll in fun :-D>

Cheers,
Jack - '99 XJ8L PA USA

< snip >

Sean

Please ignore Jack; he makes it sound so simple and he’s
obviously never removed a Jaguar XJ6 starter. Certainly
never taken the top bolt out !

I agree with the others - most likely one of the relays etc
and not the motor itself.

Have a look at the two sections about the starter motor on
my page http://tinyurl.com/2g9zcxu BEFORE embarking on any
attempt to get the motor out !

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth

I want to live in a world where a chicken can cross a road
without its motives being questioned–
The original message included these comments:

The top starter bolt is notoriously difficult to access.

crawl under the car, unhook the electrical leads to the starter. Pull
the

bolts that hold the starter on and viola! Starter in hands, unless it
falls

on your head (I had that happen once).


Jim Butterworth Somerset, United Kingdom
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< snip >


(Jeff Watson) #9

In reply to a message from Jack Hollibaugh sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

G’day Gents,

I like the bit about leaving the tools in the fridge!

I’ve had the starter off my V12 so I don’t know if any of this is
applicable to the I6’s.

The top bolt has a twelve pointed 7/16’’ head while the bottom bolt
has a six sided 1/2’’ head. The top bolt you can see from under the
bonnet but can’t access it, you can access it from under the car
but you can’t see it! Lotsa socket extensions, incantations and
luck will see it out. The bottom bolt is easy.

If the bolts are frozen in it doesn’t matter if you snap them as
they screw into the starter and if the bolt head snaps off you can
still get the starter out and then carry out the bolt shaft removal
in your workshop.

With the V12 RHD cars you have to remove the steering rack and the
RHS exhaust downpipe to get the starter out and as I said I’m not
sure of the situation with the I6’s.

My car occasionally does the no crank routine but the lightest tap
on the starter motor with the auxiliary starting device, an old
jack handle, will have it running instantly. Of course this only
ever happens when the engine is hot and I’m in uniform and running
late for work!

Another starter rebuild is on the cards I think and when my
recently ordered supply of roundtuits arrive I can get stuck into
it.

Regards,
Jeff Watson.
Sydney, Oz.–
1995 V12 X305
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(sfj642) #10

In reply to a message from Jack Hollibaugh sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Jack

Seen in that light, and working on my 1935 Austin Ten, you
could well be right. Even down to the dropping on top of
you bit. The bolts on the Austin are certainly accessible
but I do not recall leaving any tools in the 'fridge; that
must have been some refreshment stop ?

But your comments are definitely not applicable to the 6
cylinder AJ16 (or the AJ6 I believe). I went to fit my
spare checked and cleaned starter but there was no way I
could even see that top bolt, let alone reach it with
anything that might rotate it. My hand couldn’t get
anywhere near it to guide a socket on.

So my old motor is in there until it fails ! :-((

Thanks as always for your advice, Jack - terse, to the point
and occasionally inaccurate . . :-))

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth
http://www.watchet.dolphins.btinternet.co.uk/

There are Old Drivers and Bold Drivers but very few Old Bold
Drivers
I am in the ‘‘old’’ category :-))–
The original message included these comments:

Sorry if I didn’t portray the essence of the job difficulty but still I


Jim Butterworth http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1262090878
Somerset, United Kingdom
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(sfj642) #11

In reply to a message from Jeff Watson sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Jeff

Another problem could be that - if I ever got the top bolt
out, how would I feed it back in to fix the replacement
starter motor ?

It would be easier to do the Rubik’s Cube in the dark.

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth
http://www.watchet.dolphins.btinternet.co.uk/

Doing it right is no excuse for not meeting the schedule–
The original message included these comments:

has a six sided 1/2’’ head. The top bolt you can see from under the
bonnet but can’t access it, you can access it from under the car
but you can’t see it! Lotsa socket extensions, incantations and
luck will see it out. The bottom bolt is easy.


Jim Butterworth http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1262090878
Somerset, United Kingdom
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(Jack Hollibaugh) #12

You’re probably right Jim; as I said in the beginning, I never dropped one
on that car. I’m generally terse because I generally only have a few
minutes to spare as I’m passing through. I wanted to back up Dave on
checking the other stuff first. I might (if it was me, which it isn’t, but
if it was); if I could, run a lead down to the starter to see if it turned
so I could rule that out (if I could get to it without making like a big arc
welder).

I did have a starter on my Expedition that burned off the copper lead to the
solenoid. I guess the lead degraded over time until the last bit of it
couldn’t handle the current anymore. I saw the smoke rise through the back
of the motor as the last bit of lead was burned off while trying to turn.
That one was easy to change.

If the lister had said something like <how do you get to the XX bolts?> then
I might not have said anything about just removing the bolts but he had
something like Which lead me to believe that he
hadn’t checked the other easier found issues first, so I just threw the bolt
removing in for fluff. :-P>

Anyway, it’s Friday and I have a bit of rum to taste test. I hope you had a
great evening! :-D>

Cheers,
Jack - '99 XJ8L PA USA

< snip >

Jack

< snip >

But your comments are definitely not applicable to the 6
cylinder AJ16 (or the AJ6 I believe). I went to fit my
spare checked and cleaned starter but there was no way I
could even see that top bolt, let alone reach it with
anything that might rotate it. My hand couldn’t get
anywhere near it to guide a socket on.

So my old motor is in there until it fails ! :-((

Thanks as always for your advice, Jack - terse, to the point
and occasionally inaccurate . . :-))

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth

There are Old Drivers and Bold Drivers but very few Old Bold
Drivers
I am in the ‘‘old’’ category :-))–
The original message included these comments:

Sorry if I didn’t portray the essence of the job difficulty but still I


Jim Butterworth Somerset, United Kingdom
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< snip >


(sfj642) #13

In reply to a message from Jack Hollibaugh sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Jack

Yes, I had a great evening thank you - annoying our American
friends! :-))

Hope you enjoy your rum - you’ve earned it ! :-))

Best wishes from Jim Butterworth
http://www.watchet.dolphins.btinternet.co.uk/

If it isn’t broken, fix it untll it is–
The original message included these comments:

Anyway, it’s Friday and I have a bit of rum to taste test. I hope you had a
great evening! :-D>


Jim Butterworth http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1262090878
Somerset, United Kingdom
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(Bryan N) #14

In reply to a message from Jack Hollibaugh sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

Jack,

That’s OK. We who have replaced a starter on an XJ6 know you
hadn’t - otherwise you wouldn’t joke about it! :slight_smile:

Here is a picture of that top rear-facing bolt from my car.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1282659955

Unless you are very lucky on an AJ6 (and I guess an AJ16 is
similar), access to that top bolt requires the tranny
mounting to be detached so that the engine / gearbox can be
tilted down at the rear to allow a long extension and
wobbler to be inserted from behind to get on to the bolt
head. Then you may find the bolt is so tight that you stand
a good chance of rounding off the bolt head - hence the
need for a bolt claw extractor which further chewed up the
bolt head before mine would ‘crack’.

Of course, some will say they had no problem and removed the
bolt from above … Grrrrr!–
The original message included these comments:

Haha, you’re right Jim, I never pulled a starter from an XJ6 but really
though (and I’m saying this with lightness and jest), don’t you take the
bolts out? I mean some bolts come out easy, some bolts come out tough but
they all come out with properly placed perseverance. Tongue placement seems
to help in certain situations.


Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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(Win) #15

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:

I think removing the starter would be easy if the procedure
started with the initial step of ‘‘First, remove cylinder
head and manifolds from the engine’’

Or, ‘‘First, disconnect the front cross member and
suspension from the car and lift the body off the engine and
suspension’’.

Personally, I cheated. My '93 was the only car exhibiting
any starter problems and I changed it when I was replacing
the head gasket. That starter might have lasted years
longer but I replaced it anyway just because I had access to
that top bolt.–
The original message included these comments:

That’s OK. We who have replaced a starter on an XJ6 know you
hadn’t - otherwise you wouldn’t joke about it! :slight_smile:
Unless you are very lucky on an AJ6 (and I guess an AJ16 is
similar), access to that top bolt requires the tranny
mounting to be detached so that the engine / gearbox can be
tilted down at the rear to allow a long extension and
wobbler to be inserted from behind to get on to the bolt
head. Then you may find the bolt is so tight that you stand
a good chance of rounding off the bolt head - hence the
need for a bolt claw extractor which further chewed up the
bolt head before mine would ‘crack’.


91 XJ6, 93 Sov, 97 Sov – Driveway’s crowded!
Tampa Fl, United States
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(jagsean) #16

In reply to a message from Win sent Sat 12 Feb 2011:

Hi guys, well thank you very much for all your info on this much
appreciated, I have checked the battery and the leads all ok I even
put jump leads on just in case but still clic clic,i took the earth
lead of the starter and cleaned that up sprayed the connections to
the solinoid with wd40 checked the fuse,s also moved the gear stick
into drive and back but still nothing the only thing I did,nt check
was the relays so make that the next job. As to trying to find the
top bolt well I spent about half an hour under the car feeling
around with my hand but could,nt find it even got on top of the car
off a pair of steps to try and see it but no luck,like someone said
on hear I think you have to strip the car down to get at it .But
its really weird I drove the car back from a garage the day before
and it started fine come the next day tryed to start it and nothing
just clic clic??? I will have a look at the relays tomorrow and
try wobbleing the gear stick about and see if I get any joy.

Cheers sean.–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Fri 11 Feb 2011:
I think removing the starter would be easy if the procedure
started with the initial step of ‘‘First, remove cylinder
head and manifolds from the engine’’
Or, ‘‘First, disconnect the front cross member and
suspension from the car and lift the body off the engine and
suspension’’.

That’s OK. We who have replaced a starter on an XJ6 know you
hadn’t - otherwise you wouldn’t joke about it! :slight_smile:
91 XJ6, 93 Sov, 97 Sov – Driveway’s crowded!
Tampa Fl, United States


jagsean
birmingham, United Kingdom
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(Jack Hollibaugh) #17

I preface this again by not ever having worked on this particular car. I am
assuming (probably to my detriment) that the solenoid is attached to the
starter base. That said, it may (and I say that with no authority what so
ever) be advantageous to slide under the car while someone turns the key to
see if you can feel or hear the solenoid click in. It is my (probably
incorrect) assumption that if you can hear or feel the solenoid click then
the starter assembly (starter motor and solenoid) may indeed be the problem.
My feeling is that if the solenoid is clicking and the starter is not
turning all of the pre-solenoid issues would be ok as the solenoid is trying
to do its job.

A few postings up I mentioned an issue on another vehicle where the lead
from the solenoid to the starter had decayed so even though the starter was
fine there was no current flow to allow it to turn. If you can, you may
want to see if this lead is still intact. It generally (but maybe not on
this car) a braided copper lead without insulation as such is open to
deterioration from the elements.

One still must be assured that a good battery is being used as, at least in
the case of X308s, these cars tend to be only happy with a healthy battery.

If you can get to the solenoid (and again I don’t know if you can so please
define this for yourself) you may try to see if you can jump across the
smaller posts and see if the starter turns.

I hope maybe some of this will help but understand that it may not.

Cheers,
Jack - '99 XJ8L PA USA

< snip >

Hi guys, well thank you very much for all your info on this much
appreciated, I have checked the battery and the leads all ok I even
put jump leads on just in case but still clic clic,i took the earth
lead of the starter and cleaned that up sprayed the connections to
the solinoid with wd40 checked the fuse,s also moved the gear stick
into drive and back but still nothing the only thing I did,nt check
was the relays so make that the next job. As to trying to find the
top bolt well I spent about half an hour under the car feeling
around with my hand but could,nt find it even got on top of the car
off a pair of steps to try and see it but no luck,like someone said
on hear I think you have to strip the car down to get at it .But
its really weird I drove the car back from a garage the day before
and it started fine come the next day tryed to start it and nothing
just clic clic??? I will have a look at the relays tomorrow and
try wobbleing the gear stick about and see if I get any joy.

Cheers sean.

< snip >–
jagsean
birmingham, United Kingdom
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< snip >


(Doug Dwyer) #18

I cheated as well. My starter was becoming reluctant to part company with
the flywheel. I changed it when I had the intake manifold off for other work
:slight_smile:

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “Win” drkemper@ix.netcom.com

Personally, I cheated. My '93 was the only car exhibiting
any starter problems and I changed it when I was replacing
the head gasket.


(Ant '95 3.2) #19

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Sat 12 Feb 2011:

Watched an X300 starter motor top bolt removal this week. First the
gearbox frame bolts to chassis were removed, to allow gearbox frame
to drop a few inches but supported whilst car on ramp. This allowed
just enough space to see top bolt with torch and unbolt with
articulated spanner. Took 15 mins in hands of good mechanic to get
starter motor off. Oil filter and oil filter housing was off
already but dont know if this relevant.–
The original message included these comments:

I cheated as well. My starter was becoming reluctant to part company with
the flywheel. I changed it when I had the intake manifold off for other work


Ant XJR6
Kent, United Kingdom
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(jagsean) #20

In reply to a message from Ant XJR sent Sun 13 Feb 2011:

Hi guys ,just an update on the starter motor problem, well checked
the relays today and they was all working ok took the relay for the
horn out and swopped it with the ignition and solinoid relays just
to make sure but still clic clic, tried wobbleing the gear stick
also tried hitting the starter motor again while holding the
ignition key to start but still no joy.The battery is only a couple
of weeks old has a small window on it which is green when charged
and black when flat and it is green at the moment but I put the
jump leads on just to be sure but still no joy???
So I think the starter motor has had it and has got to come off, so
my brother is going to phone the garage to pick it up and let them
try and sort it out.I hate it when you have to result to taking it
to a garage because I try and do as much work as possible on my own
jag and my brothers but im going to have to face defeat on this one.
Thank you for all your help on this much appreciated pity it was,nt
a better outcome but thats cars for you I suppose.

Cheers sean–
The original message included these comments:

Watched an X300 starter motor top bolt removal this week. First the
gearbox frame bolts to chassis were removed, to allow gearbox frame
to drop a few inches but supported whilst car on ramp. This allowed
just enough space to see top bolt with torch and unbolt with
articulated spanner. Took 15 mins in hands of good mechanic to get
starter motor off. Oil filter and oil filter housing was off
already but dont know if this relevant.


jagsean
birmingham, United Kingdom
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