[x300] Seat Movement

Both my wife and I are quite tall. She likes the seat back quite
vertical so I think she�s too close to the airbag. We have a 96
VDP.

What I�d like to do is get the seat to move back about 2 more
inches. Has anyone done this? It appears there are no physical
stops on the seat track so I�d guess it�s some kind on limit switch
in the seat electrics.

Thanks.–
Anthony Hladun
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In reply to a message from Anthony Hladun sent Sun 21 Aug 2005:

There was a tweak for the XJ-S where if you took the seat out then
removed the track from the floor and fitted it back to front, you
got a couple of inches more legroom (which meant the seat went all
the way back to the rear ‘‘seats’’ leaving absolutely zero rear
legroom). Don’t know if the same applies to the X300.–
The original message included these comments:

What I�d like to do is get the seat to move back about 2 more
inches. Has anyone done this? It appears there are no physical
stops on the seat track so I�d guess it�s some kind on limit switch
in the seat electrics.


'04 S-Type 2.7D manual. Previously '98 XJR, '89 XJ-S.
Stratford-upon-Avon, United Kingdom
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Anthony,

If you are both quite tall, I don’t think you can get too close to the
steering wheel even with the seat back in the most vertical position. As a
test, if you can do this. Sit in the car and slide the seat the whole way
forward. That is where a short person would sit, Measure the distance
between chest and wheel. That’s the danger zone. But the biggest danger for
short people is not the bag inflating against their chest. It’s supposed to
do that – remember these were instituted to save people who weren’t wearing
seatbelts. The problem short people have is that their face is in the line
of fire. Sitting tall and vertical you should have no problem.

I am not an airbag fan. Search the archives for a post of mine about the
airbags deploying in our XJ6. It was relatively low speed, and caused about
$6000 damage to the front of the Jag – not much when you consider the
bumper cover $1000, the headlamp clusters are $400 each, and you still have
the grille, bonnet, and bumper beam, shock mounts, paint and labor.)
However, the airbags did another $4500 dollars of damage and would have cost
an additional $1500 to replace – which I didn’t. The benefit of front
airbags to people wearing seatbelts is negligible. In fact, driving a 200
lb. heavier car makes a seatbelt wearer safer than airbags. Check the
archives. I assembled a bunch of links to stats.

The key thing to remember about driving with airbags is don’t have your arms
in front of the bag. Drive with hands at 9 and 3 or 10 and 2, but don’t
drive with one at 12. If your arm is in front of the airbag door, the force
of the door in first generation airbags is enough to break your wrist or
arm. A lady who had just her thumb over the door had it left hanging only by
the tendons after an accident. If the door doesn’t break your arm, it will
probably break when it’s thrown back into your head along with any smaller
bones in might contact. Unfortunately that’s a bit counterproductive if you
are performing an evasive maneuver and your arms are in a crossover position
on the wheel.

You may survive an otherwise unsurvivable crash (although that’s somewhat
unlikely if you are belted in), but the airbags cause a lot of mayhem in the
process.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
'52 XK120 S673129, '59 Mk1, '84,'85,'86 &'95 XJ6-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x300@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x300@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Anthony Hladun
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 10:00 AM
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [x300] Seat Movement

Both my wife and I are quite tall. She likes the seat back quite
vertical so I think she�s too close to the airbag. We have a 96
VDP.

What I�d like to do is get the seat to move back about 2 more
inches. Has anyone done this? It appears there are no physical
stops on the seat track so I�d guess it�s some kind on limit switch
in the seat electrics.

Thanks.


Anthony Hladun
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

In reply to a message from Mark Stephenson sent Mon 22 Aug 2005:

Mark,

I share your opinion about airbags. My view is that if airbags are
genuine safety features why don�t racing cars have them? We all
know the answer. I always wear my seatbelts. On the other hand
from experience, seatbelt pre-tensioners are a great benefit.

On several previous cars I�ve owned, I�ve just disconnected the
airbags. With more electronics it gets harder and harder to do
that without warning lights and buzzers coming on. Have you been
able to disconnect your bags or did you just not have them
installed?

Just to finish the story, my desire to move the seatbelts back is
not just airbag related. With the VDP there�s 2 feet of legroom in
the back seat and it�s pretty cozy up front. More room in the
front seats would be nice.–
Anthony Hladun
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from Anthony Hladun sent Sun 21 Aug 2005:

Anthony:
I had the front seats out of my 95 to change the covers a few weeks
ago, and when I did, I looked at the existing frame rails to see if
there was an easy way to get an additional inch or two of rearward
movement. I came to the conclusion that it would not be easy or
staitforward to do. There is no way that you could do it by
modifying the ‘‘movable’’ seat track or using diffrent mounting holes.
The ‘‘fixed’’ track could be modified by extending the front mounting
lugs by the length you are looking for. This would require that you
cut the rail, weld in an inch or two of stock at the front, and re-
weld the mounting lugs . Same for the rear mounts.–
The original message included these comments:

What I�d like to do is get the seat to move back about 2 more
inches. Has anyone done this? It appears there are no physical
stops on the seat track so I�d guess it�s some kind on limit switch
in the seat electrics.


uncle
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In reply to a message from uncle sent Mon 22 Aug 2005:

Jaguar did supply extended tracks/runners for the drivers seat. I
purchased an XJ40 Sovereign from a guy who was 6’6’’, when I went to
inspect the car and go for a test drive, I got in and couldn’t
reach the pedals or the steering wheel. He told me that he got the
extended tracks from Jaguar. Check with your nearest main dealer.–
The original message included these comments:

lugs by the length you are looking for. This would require that you
cut the rail, weld in an inch or two of stock at the front, and re-
weld the mounting lugs . Same for the rear mounts.
uncle


Gary London,UK www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1122951577
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Anthony,

I didn’t have them replaced. The only indication is that at startup, the
'95’s airbag light comes on in place of the odo readout, but one touch of
the button that cycles through the display turns it off. It’s a small price
to pay to not have your front window, sunroof, and door tops all blown out,
your steering wheel damaged and dashboard destroyed by the detonation of the
two airbags.

Oh, one more suggestions to living with airbags. Never drive with your
windows completely closed. The steering wheel would still have been bent and
the dash destroyed, but we still would have had a windscreen, a sunroof, and
doors that didn’t have an inch gap at the top.

Fortunately my son was driving with his hands at 9 and 3 and came away with
only rope burn on the inside of his left arm. The car he hit had only
scratches on the bumper cover because he submarined it as they both braked
hard to avoid an idiot in front of them. IOW, the airbags were totally
unnecessary given the speed of the crash.

I’ve been told that just disconnecting a sensor or two will disable the
bags, but have never tried it. You could probably search the Internet for
good advice. My pickup (no back seats) has a switch so that a small
passenger isn’t killed. I leave that off all the time.

“Mark 1” Mark Stephenson
'52 XK120 S673129, '59 Mk1, '84,'85,'86 &'95 XJ6-----Original Message-----
From: owner-x300@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-x300@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Anthony Hladun
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:01 AM
To: x300@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [x300] Seat Movement

In reply to a message from Mark Stephenson sent Mon 22 Aug 2005:

Mark,

I share your opinion about airbags. My view is that if airbags are
genuine safety features why don�t racing cars have them? We all
know the answer. I always wear my seatbelts. On the other hand
from experience, seatbelt pre-tensioners are a great benefit.

On several previous cars I�ve owned, I�ve just disconnected the
airbags. With more electronics it gets harder and harder to do
that without warning lights and buzzers coming on. Have you been
able to disconnect your bags or did you just not have them
installed?

Just to finish the story, my desire to move the seatbelts back is
not just airbag related. With the VDP there�s 2 feet of legroom in
the back seat and it�s pretty cozy up front. More room in the
front seats would be nice.


Anthony Hladun
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from uncle sent Mon 22 Aug 2005:

uncle,

Did you find out what actually stops the seat from moving further
back? It appears as if the drive mechanism would actually move it
back more. You’d also have to remove the rear rail trim which
would be damaged if the seat went back more.–
The original message included these comments:

I had the front seats out of my 95 to change the covers a few weeks
ago, and when I did, I looked at the existing frame rails to see if
there was an easy way to get an additional inch or two of rearward


Anthony Hladun
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

In reply to a message from Anthony Hladun sent Tue 23 Aug 2005:

Anthony:
I don’t recall what it was that stops the moveable track. My
interest was seeing if there was a second set of holes that I could
use to get more range. I did not see any.
I think there are limters that keep the seat from moving too far
back. They are electronic, not mechanical. I would assume it is
handled by the seat controller and perhaps the potentiometers.
That is why I thought the easiest think would be to change the
fixed rail. Perhaps they are available from Jag. You are correct
in that the rear rail trim would have to be addressed, but if you
moved the assembly back an inch or two, you would not see it anyway.–
The original message included these comments:

Did you find out what actually stops the seat from moving further
back? It appears as if the drive mechanism would actually move it
back more. You’d also have to remove the rear rail trim which
would be damaged if the seat went back more.


uncle
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from uncle sent Tue 23 Aug 2005:

Check that the mounting holes for the track are equidistant from
the ends. Like I said, with the XJ-S you could fit the tracks the
other way round and gain a couple of inches legroom.–
The original message included these comments:

I don’t recall what it was that stops the moveable track. My
interest was seeing if there was a second set of holes that I could
use to get more range. I did not see any.


04 S-Type 2.7D , 98 XJR, 89 XJ-S. Posts may contain irony.
Stratford-upon-Avon, UK, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Mark Stephenson sent Mon 22 Aug 2005:

Mark,

I found disconnecting the airbags is actually very easy. You pull
fuse 17 (15 amp) under the left passenger seat. Mine had a little
yellow cap over it that you have to remove first. You then get the
airbag error. If you remove the driver’s knee bolster (4 screws)
you can reach up underneath and remove the SRS warning bulb. You
still have the AIRBAG in the ODO display but that’s easy to live
with. The display has to say something by default, AIRBAG isn’t a
bad choice.

Spinola,

I did look at the tracks and I don’t think they can be reversed
because the mounts at the front and back of a track are different.
I’ll pull a seat soon and have a better look.

Thanks guys.–
The original message included these comments:

I didn’t have them replaced. The only indication is that at startup, the
'95’s airbag light comes on in place of the odo readout, but one touch of
the button that cycles through the display turns it off. It’s a small price


Anthony Hladun
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In reply to a message from Anthony Hladun sent Wed 24 Aug 2005:

Correction…right passenger seat–
Anthony Hladun
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