[xj] 4.2 Idle Quality,Wiring Hrnesses, and The Art of Acquiring Knowledge,LONG

“J&L Autoworks” <@J_L_Autoworks>

Hi gang,
The idle quality thing has taken a new turn. I was talking
with Ted about flow matched injectors and I recommended that he find a Bosch
specialist that can rebuild or exchange jis injectors. He did so and I made
a few calls myself. He FOUND one and I did NOT. He was kind enough to pass
along the info and I exercised my art of acquiring knowledge.
I called a friend of mine in a Porsche/Audi independent shop and
asked him about an injector matching specialist. He said he didn’t know of
one. I was surprised and asked him why not. He said that the normal
standards for the flow rate in rebuilt and new injectors is close enough
that poor idle and running quality is likely to be worse because of all the
other variables such as inductive current loss through old injector and
engine harnesses, improperly operating emissions equipment and, of course
things like sticky advance mechanisms, bad vacuum lines and the like. So the
more familiar I am getting with EFI systems that I get, the more I
understand that most EFI setups are way more exact than the equipment that
they run.
One other thing that I feel is an inherent characteristic is the
erratic seemingly random tremor. Is anyone else out there thinking the same
thing about it? You’re sitting there at a light, in gear, foot on the brake,
the car is smooth as silk, and then it just kind of shudders a little. Not
enough to be concerned about, but a strange falter at odd intervals. I think
that the design of the head has some valve overlap that at low rpm creates
some confusion in the air/fuel flow and literally makes it hiccup. That’s
what I think anyway. Okay, engineer guys, go to it…but use small words
for us seat of the pants folk.
Anyway, there should be some way that you can measure inductive
electrical loss from cracked and brittle harnesses. I am not trying to
commercialize the aspect of this, but is there any more investigation going
on into the harness reproduction? All of the '78-'87 cars that are here
could probably stand one and I know I’d like to be able to put one on a
customer’s car without it breaking the bank. Steve at Supercat has the
connector kits.
The art of acquiring knowledge as I see it is to be able to draw out
someone who is passionate about what you want to know by asking for his
expertise. You generally learn a lot and get practical info as opposed to
generic facts. I know the quickest way to get me motivated is to ask how I
would go about a certain type of repair. Look at what you are trying to fix
and figure out what you don’t know. Ask intelligent questions that show that
you put forth effort first. And whatever you do, if you ask him how to do
something, do NOT turn around and argue with him.
I had a gentleman come in a couple of days ago wth enough facts that
I was able to make a most likely diagnosis for him. I sent him home with a
relay and instructions and his car was running in ten minutes. He got
knowledge, saved a towing bill, I felt like a hero and acquired a grateful
new customer. Ain’t it cool?
Cheers,
Jeb

J&L Autoworks
1335 Lutztown Road
Mechanicsburg,PA 17055
717-258-5524
@J_L_Autoworks===================================================
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“Ken Davis” <@Ken_Davis2>

Jeb,

to bad I live a continent away… But on the good side, I also
have found a master craftsman for Jag (and Triumph) work…
It’s businessmen like you, with the helpful, can-do spirit that
will never hurt for customers. Your approach instills a sense of
confidence and fairness, and (speaking as one) customers key onto
that very quickly…

Thanks for all your contributions to the list!

Ken
South San Francisco
87 SIII
73 TR6
(89 Merc, 89 Hyundai, 93 Hyundai, 70 Vespa Grande, 97 Tecumseh
mower (and a chain saw))----- Original Message -----
From: “J&L Autoworks” j_lautoworks@pa.net
To: “Jag- Lovers” xj@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 11:37
Subject: [xj] 4.2 Idle Quality,Wiring Hrnesses, and The Art of
Acquiring Knowledge,LONG

SNIP>>>>>>
I had a gentleman come in a couple of days ago wth
enough facts that
I was able to make a most likely diagnosis for him. I sent him
home with a
relay and instructions and his car was running in ten minutes.
He got
knowledge, saved a towing bill, I felt like a hero and acquired
a grateful
new customer. Ain’t it cool?
Cheers,
Jeb

J&L Autoworks
1335 Lutztown Road
Mechanicsburg,PA 17055
717-258-5524
j_lautoworks@pa.net

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“DOUGLAS DWYER” <@Doug_Dwyer>

Jeb,
My Jag never idles quite the same way two days in a row.

I, too, get that tremor from time to time but always thought it was the
result of sub-standard Gin and/ or a poorly mixed Martini. I find that
sticking strictly to “Beefeaters” and the proper dribble of Vermouth
(truthfully, one should simply open the bottle then bow in the direction of
France) eliminates all traces of the tremor. Oooops. Wrong topic, wrong
tremor.

My JAG usually tremors more on hot days but even then it is not at all
consistent. The only somewhat consistent thing is that extended idling
worsens the tremor. I’ve tried a number of things with little, if any,
result. The only positive gain was by a rather unscientific and (IMHO) heavy
handed mixture enrichment at the AFM which did yield a noticeable
improvement. I am assuming I have some vacuum leaks or the “heavy
handedness” would not have been required.

If my jag is indeed typical I don’t know how anyone could isolate specific
cylinders in a balance test or any other routine testing. The roughness just
isn’t that pronounced or consistent. My bet is that we could test injectors
for spray pattern and resistance, run leakdown test, check cylinder
compression, check wiring harnesses for inductive loss, etc etc ad infinitum
and not find anything conclusive or any component or sub-system “out of
specification”. OK, you may get some borderline readings but would that be
conclusive ? You have to swap parts to tell. (If a miracle does not occur,
who pays ? The customer or the shop ? 'Nother topic, 'nother day, 'nother
time) I’m actually hoping the idle gets worse on my car—then I may have a
chance of isolating the fault…if there even is one.

Here’s the question----I believe another lister asked it but I never saw a
response: has anyone owned their FI Jag since day one ? Did it always have
“the tremor” or did it develop with age and mileage ? I’ve heard that
they’ve “been like that” since day one.

Now, on to acquiring knowledge. Jeb, in your usual fashion and with your
personal brand of candor you’ve hit upon something. “Look at what you are
trying to fix and figure out what you don’t know”. Catch 22 here. You have
to have some knowledge of a subject before you can ascertain what you don’t
know about it ! This is where I get balled up all the time. I don’t know
what I don’t know ! THAT’S how little I know ! (make any sense ?) But, I’m
being a little silly here and I don’t think you were intending to go off
onto this tangent.

I agree with your remarks 101%, Jeb. I’ll bend over backwards to help
someone who, after trials and tribulations, research and wrenching, has
reached an impasse. I love doing it, in fact. But, it’ll be a one-time-only
deal if they argue with me about the free advice I’ve just spent 30 minutes
giving them. If they think I’m F.O.S. or otherwise disagree, no problem.
Just don’t argue with me about it. This is just a matter of common courtesy.
No more, no less. One more thing—have some respect for other people’s
time. If I ask for advice and the other person is fidgeting, giving curt
answers, and looking around in 20 directions…it’s obvious I’ve come “at a
bad time”. Regroup later. Again, common courtesy. Now, if you are paying me
for the advice I’ll play by your rules—

Dwyer has certainly rambled well and long enough. Good night, all.

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA===================================================
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Graeme Adamson <@Graeme_Adamson>

said:

My JAG usually tremors more on hot days but even then it is not at all
consistent. The only somewhat consistent thing is that extended idling
worsens the tremor. I’ve tried a number of things with little, if any,
result. The only positive gain was by a rather unscientific and (IMHO) heavy
handed mixture enrichment at the AFM which did yield a noticeable
improvement. I am assuming I have some vacuum leaks or the “heavy
handedness” would not have been required.

I seem to have discovered that on my car, the idle is more consistently
smooth when the car is cold, and the idle is rougher when hot, and it’s been
idling a while.

Dwyer has certainly rambled well and long enough. Good night, all.

“Good night”? But’s it’s 10AM here…

GraemeOn Mon, 29 May 2000 00:39:58 -0700, “DOUGLAS DWYER” DWYERD@email.msn.com

========================================================
Graeme Adamson, @Graeme_Adamson
If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science;
it is opinion. - L. Long

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@antonio_castro

Graeme,

I have seen this associated to electricals, I mean, distributor cap, wiring
to spark
plugs and plugs themselves in other cars, my xj6 idles smoothly. The fact
that
when you enrich the mixture it behaves better could point to the quality of
the
petrol itself. Do you fill the tanks always in the same petrol station? Is
it the ratio
gas/air (CO %) in specs?.

Hope this help. Antonio, 83 �XJ6 ser III

Antonio Castro/IBM Espa�a.
@antonio_castro

Graeme Adamson claymore@iname.com

said:

My JAG usually tremors more on hot days but even then it is not at all
consistent. The only somewhat consistent thing is that extended idling
worsens the tremor. I’ve tried a number of things with little, if any,
result. The only positive gain was by a rather unscientific and (IMHO)
heavy
handed mixture enrichment at the AFM which did yield a noticeable
improvement. I am assuming I have some vacuum leaks or the “heavy
handedness” would not have been required.

I seem to have discovered that on my car, the idle is more consistently
smooth when the car is cold, and the idle is rougher when hot, and it’s
been
idling a while.On Mon, 29 May 2000 00:39:58 -0700, “DOUGLAS DWYER” DWYERD@email.msn.com

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