[xj] Borg Warner T65 - slow upshift

Hi All,
I have a 1975 series 2 (4.2) fitted with a BW T65 tranmission.
Since I got the car it is slow to up-shift. Basically, it hangs on
to each gear until approx 3600RPM. I have adjusted the forward band
and the fluid level is correct and still no difference. The
downshift is working well but the slow upshift is driving me crazy.
Backing off the throttle slightly at 3000RPM makes little
difference to the change rpm.
Any similar experiences or suggestions would be appreciated.
Fergus–
Fergus69
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In reply to a message from Fergus69 sent Tue 17 Aug 2010:

I would suggest that your governor is sticking, the fluid
may be bad, and it is possible also that the throttle cable
is out of adjustment (the one for the transmission, not the
accelerator pedal).

The forward band is applied only for intermediate range
(second gear during Drive and 2nd selection) and will not
affect other shift-points unless it is too tight (which
could delay 2-3 up-shift by jamming the transmission in
between ranges).

The most typical cause in these transmissions is a sticking
governor which requires removal of the output flange and
attention to the governor assembly itself.

To have a shop measure main-line pressure would be a good
idea as well; you could have a regulator problem (pressure
too low makes up-shifts late in some cases).

More commentary will definitely follow; many of us have been
through experiences with the T65/66 transmissions.–
The original message included these comments:

I have a 1975 series 2 (4.2) fitted with a BW T65 tranmission.
Since I got the car it is slow to up-shift. Basically, it hangs on
to each gear until approx 3600RPM. I have adjusted the forward band
and the fluid level is correct and still no difference. The
downshift is working well but the slow upshift is driving me crazy.
Backing off the throttle slightly at 3000RPM makes little
difference to the change rpm.
Any similar experiences or suggestions would be appreciated.
Fergus


Daniel - 1983 XJ6
Victoria BC, Canada
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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Fergus69 wrote:

Hi All,
I have a 1975 series 2 (4.2) fitted with a BW T65 tranmission.
Since I got the car it is slow to up-shift. Basically, it hangs on
to each gear until approx 3600RPM. I have adjusted the forward band
and the fluid level is correct and still no difference. The
downshift is working well but the slow upshift is driving me crazy.
Backing off the throttle slightly at 3000RPM makes little
difference to the change rpm.

While you most likely have an issue, Fergus - you’re too unspecific…:slight_smile:

Point here is that the shifts relates to the pedal position; with full
throttle the box will hang on to the lower gear until rpms reaches
3000+. The gas pedal tells the box what the driver wants from the engine

  • full throttle means power is wanted, only available at higher revs.
    Light throttle means that the driver wants economy - and quick upshifts.
    Just like the way a driver would shift on a manual box…

A valid test is to note shift points at light throttle; the box should
then shift seamlessly 1/2 at some 8 - 12 mph and 2/3 at some 13 - 19 mph

  • give or tale a tad. If it doesn’t comply; something is definitely awry…

Daniel’s points are spot on; a sticky governor or a downshift cable
adjustment fault are the usual culprits. While some itsy bitsy trial and
error adjustments on the downshift cable may work for minor
discrepancies - the best idea is to set the downshift cable by pressure
readings. Any transmission shop can do this in a jiffy, or you can use a
pressure gauge for DIY ditto - if you are so inclined…

The point of this adjustment is that it may, apart from correct setting,
also reveal if there is some internal valve body anomalies affecting
shifting. If the pressure readings are correct, and the high shift
points remains; the likely cause is a stuck governor. As the box works
on oil pressure differentials; the governor modifies pressures according
to road speed. Stuck, it tells the box that you are moving slowly -
which, regardless of rpms or pedal position, delays upshifts…

Band adjustments has no bearing on this; with no internal faults -
upshifts are approached by downshift cable adjustments, and with no
improvements then the governor is the next in line…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)===================================================
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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Wed 18 Aug 2010:

Hi All,
Re slow upshift, I have removed and cleaned the governer (which
seemed pretty free). While I was at it I decided to change the
fluid and filter in the transmission. Following the workshop manual
I removed the transmission pan and drained the old oil, however,
only approx 1 litre of old fluid came out. The manual says that it
should take approx 8.25 litres to refill. I understand that you
cant remove all the old oil but would have expected much more to
drain out. Have I missed something? As I have been working on the
car for a while the fluid was cold when changed. I have replaced
the transmission filter but am unsure as to how much oil to put
back into it, as only 1 litre came out. The dipstick was showing
the oil level as correct before I drained it, so I dont believe the
level was low to begin with. In summery, have I drained the fluid
correctly and, if so, should I only expect approx 1liter of atf is
sufficient to refill it?? Doesnt really make sense to only replace
1/8th of the fluid during a change.
Finally, can anyone suggest a european spec of atf fluid to refill
it with?
Many thanks,
Fergus–
The original message included these comments:

I have a 1975 series 2 (4.2) fitted with a BW T65 tranmission.
Since I got the car it is slow to up-shift. Basically, it hangs on
to each gear until approx 3600RPM. I have adjusted the forward band


Fergus69
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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Fergus69 wrote:

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Wed 18 Aug 2010:

Hi All,
Re slow upshift, I have removed and cleaned the governer (which
seemed pretty free). While I was at it I decided to change the
fluid and filter in the transmission. Following the workshop manual
I removed the transmission pan and drained the old oil, however,
only approx 1 litre of old fluid came out. The manual says that it
should take approx 8.25 litres to refill. I understand that you
cant remove all the old oil but would have expected much more to
drain out. Have I missed something?

While standing the fluid tend to migrate to the converter, Fergus…

I suggest you start with adding the one litre you drained - then run the
fluid level test to see if any adjustment is required. Dexron III should
be readily available in Europe - and is adequate…

However; when you measured the level; was the correct procedure used -
run the box hot, 30 km or so. pass through all gears and check with the
engine idling?

Suspiciously little fluid came out - and low fluid level may certainly
interfere with shifting…so…?

Besides that; the downshift cable should certainly be considered - if it
has slipped its moorings, or is otherwise wrongly adjusted; funny
shift-points may appear…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)> As I have been working on the

car for a while the fluid was cold when changed. I have replaced
the transmission filter but am unsure as to how much oil to put
back into it, as only 1 litre came out. The dipstick was showing
the oil level as correct before I drained it, so I dont believe the
level was low to begin with. In summery, have I drained the fluid
correctly and, if so, should I only expect approx 1liter of atf is
sufficient to refill it?? Doesnt really make sense to only replace
1/8th of the fluid during a change.
Finally, can anyone suggest a european spec of atf fluid to refill
it with?

The original message included these comments:

I have a 1975 series 2 (4.2) fitted with a BW T65 tranmission.
Since I got the car it is slow to up-shift. Basically, it hangs on
to each gear until approx 3600RPM. I have adjusted the forward band

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

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In reply to a message from Fergus69 sent Sun 26 Sep 2010:

With regards to your slow upshift-one of the most common problems I
have found is the break-up of the throttle shaft bush on your Ser
2. which mucks up your shifts.This is often overlooked and is Part
C34388 from memory. Then check your downshift cable adjustment if
this is OK or renewed
You could always take one trans cooler line off,start the car and
use the engine to pump out the remaining fluid into a container. I
used to use this method after band failures to empty the cooler in
situ. I am unable to see how fluid could ‘‘migrate to the convertor
when standing’’. Your other choice is to take the pan off again and
undo the valve body then you should have a flood of the stuff.

The best method to get an accurate fluid level is with the
engine/gearbox at operating temperature,leave idling and run
through each gear P to L and back again to P then TURN OFF, you
then have a minute or so to get an exact level by being able to
insert the dipstick in and out as often as you like-wiping each
time. I say this after 17 years of using this method as I found it
infallible and believe it to be a Borg Warner superceded checking
procedure for Jaguar Rover and Triumph cars so equipped.–
pete09
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