Hi does anyone have experience with fitting an ABS
anti-locking brake system on a XJ6 series 3? I know the last
few years of the series 3 XJ12 had ABS brakes, so that
should possibly fit the XJ6, right?
If so, how complex a procedure is this, and where can I get
the parts (or an overview of the parts needed).
All the best–
Knut_XJ6_s3_86
Oslo, Norway
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Hi does anyone have experience with fitting an ABS
anti-locking brake system on a XJ6 series 3? I know the last
few years of the series 3 XJ12 had ABS brakes, so that
should possibly fit the XJ6, right?
If so, how complex a procedure is this, and where can I get
the parts (or an overview of the parts needed).
The system used on the Series 3 V12 was a stand alone system, so it
would be possible to retrofit it to any Series 3, if you were able to
find all the parts. The rear hub carriers are different from the non ABS
cars, as there is the fitting to accept the sensor. It’s in the same
location as the grease cap on non ABS cars, but there is additional
metal to accept a bolt to attach the sensor. You’ll need the tone ring
on the axle shaft to work with the sensor.
Similarly, at the front there is the tone rings and sensor fittings. The
computer is fairly easy to fit, so that would not be too difficult. I
would think that you’d need a parts car that was equipped with ABS and
pull everything off it. However, as far as I can tell there was only
1210 cars built with ABS, so they are pretty rare, especially those
being broken for spares.
Craig
92 VDP (for sale, just buy a new car complete with ABS!)
knut3000 wrote:>Hi does anyone have experience with fitting an ABS
anti-locking brake system on a XJ6 series 3? I know the last
few years of the series 3 XJ12 had ABS brakes, so that
should possibly fit the XJ6, right?
If so, how complex a procedure is this, and where can I get
the parts (or an overview of the parts needed).
I understand that the ABS system on these cars was troublesome, but someone
like Greg wells would know more. Personally, I wouln’t bother – the XJ’s
braking is great!–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
Craig Talbot wrote:
The system used on the Series 3 V12 was a stand alone system, so it
would be possible to retrofit it to any Series 3, if you were able to
find all the parts. The rear hub carriers are different from the non ABS
cars, as there is the fitting to accept the sensor. It’s in the same
location as the grease cap on non ABS cars, but there is additional
metal to accept a bolt to attach the sensor. You’ll need the tone ring
on the axle shaft to work with the sensor.
Similarly, at the front there is the tone rings and sensor fittings. The
computer is fairly easy to fit, so that would not be too difficult. I
would think that you’d need a parts car that was equipped with ABS and
pull everything off it. However, as far as I can tell there was only
1210 cars built with ABS, so they are pretty rare, especially those
being broken for spares.
No, actually its quite reliable, its a Bosch system. Some of the solder
joints in the Hellas and Bosch relays do develop microcracks, but a
reflowing of the solder cures that. The German electrical parts
generally do this, Volvo tend to have lots of those kind of problems.
Greg Wells does know some about these cars, but since they were never
sold in the US people outside the US generally are more knowledgeable.
In winter driving the system actually works very well, its a useful
addition. Some systems seem to cut in too fast and really retard the
braking but this one is just about right.
Craig
92 VDP
Cannara wrote:> I understand that the ABS system on these cars was troublesome, but
someone like Greg wells would know more. Personally, I wouln’t bother
– the XJ’s braking is great!
In reply to a message from Cannara sent Mon 23 Oct 2006:
I would rather drive my 83 XJ6 with excellent brakes, but no ABS,
than my (4 Jeep with good brakes and ABS. I think the key words are
drive it or ride in it!
From the dark side
Carl aka Jagcad–
The original message included these comments:
pull everything off it. However, as far as I can tell there was only
1210 cars built with ABS, so they are pretty rare, especially those
being broken for spares.
The ABS system on the Series III V12 is not troublesome. And I agree
about there being no need for retrofitting, but Alex, this is a modification! Think of the possibilities!!!
I understand that the ABS system on these cars was troublesome, but
someone
like Greg wells would know more. Personally, I wouln’t bother – the
XJ’s
braking is great!
No, actually its quite reliable, its a Bosch system. Some of the solder
joints in the Hellas and Bosch relays do develop microcracks, but a
reflowing of the solder cures that. The German electrical parts
generally do this, Volvo tend to have lots of those kind of problems.
Gregory and others. I have never been a fan of ABS but now I am a convert.
Had I not had ABS on my car when the deer ran out in front of me re my
cross Canada trip story. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that my car
would quite probably have got badly damaged. They allowed my to continue
braking very heavily while at the same time attempt to steer around the
deer. The Standard brakes would not have allowed me to do that. You never
know how good they are until you have been forced to use them in an
emergency.
The ABS system on the Series III V12 is not troublesome. And I agree
about there being no need for retrofitting, but Alex, this is a modification! Think of the possibilities!!!
You know, it just screams for yellow, Gregory! I mean “tone rings”,
high-pressure pumps, another computer – this is space-shuttle stuff. The
high-pressure pump for a friend’s Nissan costs almost $2kUS, as the mechanic
told him when his brakes were a little funny. We bled the brakes – no problemo.
I’ve never been so scared in winter driving as in a rental car in Colorado –
GM ABS. Was never so glad to return a car.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
Dr Gregory Andrachuk wrote:
The ABS system on the Series III V12 is not troublesome. And I agree
about there being no need for retrofitting, but Alex, this is a modification! Think of the possibilities!!!
For the GM ABS systems were awful, the most common complaint being “too
eager” to enter ABS mode. The systems, speaking in broad terms, were so
over-modulated that darn near any stop beyond using the lightest touch
became an ABS “event”.
Most systems are good these days but one must always remember that the main
purpose of ABS is to maintain a controlled stop, not necessarily a shorter
stop…and the GM systems triple-ensured that the stop was not shorter !
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1988 XJS V12 CoupeFrom: “Cannara” cannara@attglobal.net
I’ve never been so scared in winter driving as in a rental car in
Colorado –
GM ABS. Was never so glad to return a car.
Bingo ! You’ve just hit on the main benefit of an ABS system, Bob. Knowing
you can hit the brakes hard and still steer the car is confidence
inspiring.
Aside…
Not referring to you here, Bob, but using your remarks as a segue…
Just about everybody thinks they are a great driver and are so disciplined
and so experienced that ABS is not required. Maybe, maybe not. I think I’m
a good driver, too, but I’ll admit that I’ve been in some panic stop
situations where is was simply a matter of full-force on the brakes, grit my
teeth, and hope like bloody 'ell that I don’t hit anything. . There was no
time to think about anything else.
The concept the consciously holding the brakes just on the verge of
lockup when a toddler runs in front of you while you’re driving along at 35
mph on a rainy day…well…my hat’s off to anyone who can honestly say
they were thinking about preventing wheel lock-up or anything else except
“Je** Chr***, I’m about to kill this little kid” as you bend the brake
pedal.
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1988 XJS V12 CoupeFrom: “Bob. peddlar” peddlarbob@sympatico.ca
They allowed my to continue braking very heavily while at the same time
attempt to steer around the deer. The Standard brakes would not have
allowed me to do that.
The Bosch system used in the Series III V12 is completely unobtrusive.
When you first start in the morning the computer resets: you hear a low
whine for a second and if your foot is on the brake you feel one pulse.
That’s it. After that it just sits silently waiting for an emergency,
and the braking system feels exactly like the normal and powerful Jaguar
system. I have had just one experience of the ABS in the V12 car, and as
Bob says, it works phenomenally well.
No problems with tone-rings, pumps or computer except in one Toronto
car. I think the salt wreaks havoc with the system, but here in
Victoria, no problems at all.
The main control system sits very impressively in the engine compartment
where the battery normally would go in the earlier cars. Now that you
mention it, the cover, which says “ABS” on it, would look great in taxi
yellow.
You know, it just screams for yellow, Gregory! I mean “tone rings”,
high-pressure pumps, another computer – this is space-shuttle stuff.
The
high-pressure pump for a friend’s Nissan costs almost $2kUS, as the
mechanic
told him when his brakes were a little funny. We bled the brakes – no
problemo.
Ok, Gregory, now if we buy this local 94 XJ12, will it have the same class of ABS?
By the way, I received some of your labels from my NJ friend, still in your
envelope. Now you know I probably ain’t using them, so do you, or anyone,
need some concours points from 2 perfect OE labels…
a) “don’t slam the boot”
b) “disconnect negative first”
That latter one really assumes a level of ignorance a Jag owner/mech should
never be allowed to have.
:]–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
Dr Gregory Andrachuk wrote:
The Bosch system used in the Series III V12 is completely unobtrusive.
When you first start in the morning the computer resets: you hear a low
whine for a second and if your foot is on the brake you feel one pulse.
That’s it. After that it just sits silently waiting for an emergency,
and the braking system feels exactly like the normal and powerful Jaguar
system. I have had just one experience of the ABS in the V12 car, and as
Bob says, it works phenomenally well.
No problems with tone-rings, pumps or computer except in one Toronto
car. I think the salt wreaks havoc with the system, but here in
Victoria, no problems at all.
The main control system sits very impressively in the engine compartment
where the battery normally would go in the earlier cars. Now that you
mention it, the cover, which says “ABS” on it, would look great in taxi
yellow.
I’ll counterpoint with having had a true emergency stop in our SIII a few
weeks ago, with a heavy passenger present. I hit the brakes as hard as I
could – no squealing tires, no fade, just a stop so fast, straight & sure my
passenger commented he was amazed and sure we were going to crash.On the ABS side, every rental car I’ve had in bad weather with ABS has been annoying at least, scary at worst. Now, rentals are cheapos, I know, so I’m sure a good ABS can be found, just saying our Jags have very good brakes. I sense a thread! :] Alex 79xj6L SII (BRG + wires) 86xj6 SIII (Black) 61 Sprite MkII (Red) Menlo Park, Calif. Doug Dwyer wrote:
Bingo ! You’ve just hit on the main benefit of an ABS system, Bob.
Knowing you can hit the brakes hard and still steer the car is
confidence inspiring.
Aside…
Not referring to you here, Bob, but using your remarks as a segue…
Just about everybody thinks they are a great driver and are so
disciplined and so experienced that ABS is not required. Maybe, maybe
not. I think I’m a good driver, too, but I’ll admit that I’ve been in
some panic stop situations where is was simply a matter of full-force on
the brakes, grit my teeth, and hope like bloody 'ell that I don’t hit
anything. . There was no time to think about anything else.
The concept the consciously holding the brakes just on the verge of
lockup when a toddler runs in front of you while you’re driving along at
35 mph on a rainy day…well…my hat’s off to anyone who can
honestly say they were thinking about preventing wheel lock-up or
anything else except “Je** Chr***, I’m about to kill this little kid” as
you bend the brake pedal.
I specially like controlled crashes – but officer, I have ABS that controlled
my stop, er crash.
:]–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
Doug Dwyer wrote:
I hear ya, Alex.
For the GM ABS systems were awful, the most common complaint being “too
eager” to enter ABS mode. The systems, speaking in broad terms, were so
over-modulated that darn near any stop beyond using the lightest touch
became an ABS “event”.
Most systems are good these days but one must always remember that the
main purpose of ABS is to maintain a controlled stop, not necessarily a
shorter stop…and the GM systems triple-ensured that the stop was not
shorter !
In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Tue 24 Oct 2006:
I suppose my early years experience is still there. My first four
or five cars had lousy mechanical brakes. The brakes on my 69 FJ40
Land Cruiser were poor. Always looking for a way out! Driving in
the ice and snow of Germany reinforced my thinking. Driving
a ‘‘sorta’’ race car or two built in the ‘‘do not lock the brakes’’,
only bad things will happen! The early cars couldn’t lock em any
way!!
The Jeep is just too touchy!!
The Jaguar is just right.
Carl aka JAGCAD–
The original message included these comments:
Just about everybody thinks they are a great driver and are so disciplined
and so experienced that ABS is not required. Maybe, maybe not. I think I’m
a good driver, too, but I’ll admit that I’ve been in some panic stop
situations where is was simply a matter of full-force on the brakes, grit my
teeth, and hope like bloody 'ell that I don’t hit anything. . There was no
time to think about anything else.
The same class, probably (I’ve not driven an XJ81, so I can’t comment).
The system itself is completely different. The type used on the last
series 3 V12 cars was not used on any other Jaguar.
Craig
92 VDP
95 VDP
Cannara wrote:> Ok, Gregory, now if we buy this local 94 XJ12, will it have the same
In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Tue 24 Oct 2006:
I read somewhere that 100% of all persons surveyed consider
themsleves to be above average drivers. Hmmmmmm. Guess it must be
the ‘‘new math.’’
Dan–
The original message included these comments:
Just about everybody thinks they are a great driver and are so disciplined
and so experienced that ABS is not required. Maybe, maybe not. I think I’m
a good driver, too, but I’ll admit that I’ve been in some panic stop
Sort of like 100% of manufacturers think their ABS is best! Marketing, in
both cases.
:]–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.
Dan Drummond wrote:
In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Tue 24 Oct 2006:
I read somewhere that 100% of all persons surveyed consider
themsleves to be above average drivers. Hmmmmmm. Guess it must be
the ‘‘new math.’’