[xj] Handbrake pads failure and fabrication of new ones

Three months ago I purchased from ebay and installed a set
of ‘‘PowerTune’’ handbrake pads set, overhauled the handbrake
callipers and at last I had a working handbrake !
Not even a week later though, to my great dismay, the
handbrake lever was going all the way up and there was no
braking any more… You can imagine I was not the happiest
man in the world…

I took the whole thing apart again and the reason was quite
obvious, the pads had broken off from the supporting plate.
This could be the result of over-tightening, or defective /
bad quality pads, I do not know, but three out of four were
broken.

So, I decided to take an other, and less expensive, route,
to make my own pads!

A friend mechanic gave me, and for free, a set of four new
front pads from an old Datsun that were sitting in his
garage for years. The are relatively small and not very
thick, so they were perfect for the job. The plate is
thicker and there will be no bending and pad braking, but
over all the were only about 2mm thicker so at the end it
was a perfect fit.

Time will tell the rest.

Aristides

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1295944893

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1296473458--
Aristides Balanos, 1986 XJ V12,VDP - www.e-psychi.com/jaguar
Roussillon, Provence, France
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Aristides sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:

Darn nice work!–
Tom Hishon, 69 E-type 2+2, 69 E-type OTS, 81 XJ6, 85 XJ6
Wasilla, Alaska, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from kassaq sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:

Slick!!

This might be a use for half worn pads that most of us have in our
bins.

Carl–
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

Aristides wrote:

Three months ago I purchased from ebay and installed a set
of ‘‘PowerTune’’ handbrake pads set, overhauled the handbrake
callipers and at last I had a working handbrake !
Not even a week later though, to my great dismay, the
handbrake lever was going all the way up and there was no
braking any more… You can imagine I was not the happiest
man in the world…

I took the whole thing apart again and the reason was quite
obvious, the pads had broken off from the supporting plate.
This could be the result of over-tightening, or defective /
bad quality pads, I do not know, but three out of four were
broken.

Due to the small pad area, Aristides; if the brakes are on, pulled or
not fully released while moving - this shit happens. For sure; this may
indeed be bad quality - and the Datsun pads may not be that suitable
either. But do ensure that there is no problems that can cause the pads
to scrub on - or you’ll have a quick repeat…:slight_smile:

The handbrake solution is not one of Jaguars best efforts…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)>So, I decided to take an other, and less expensive, route,

to make my own pads!

A friend mechanic gave me, and for free, a set of four new
front pads from an old Datsun that were sitting in his
garage for years. The are relatively small and not very
thick, so they were perfect for the job. The plate is
thicker and there will be no bending and pad braking, but
over all the were only about 2mm thicker so at the end it
was a perfect fit.

Time will tell the rest.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:

Frank,

I really don’t know what would have caused this… but I
know for sure that the pads were not rubbing and that the
brake was not on while moving.

Over all though I can tell that the Datsun pads look much
more robust and better glued than the original ones.
The slot for the screw on the original ones does not help
the situation much and combined with a thin plate that
bends, the pads crack.

Yes, the handbrake was not one of Jaguar’s best efforts…
Why on earth they did not put outboard brakes and drum
handbrakes ? Yes I know, extra moving mass on the wheels,
but does it really worth it ?

Aristides–
The original message included these comments:

Due to the small pad area, Aristides; if the brakes are on, pulled or
not fully released while moving - this shit happens. For sure; this may
indeed be bad quality - and the Datsun pads may not be that suitable
either. But do ensure that there is no problems that can cause the pads
to scrub on - or you’ll have a quick repeat…:slight_smile:
The handbrake solution is not one of Jaguars best efforts…:slight_smile:
Frank


Aristides Balanos, 1986 XJ V12,VDP - www.e-psychi.com/jaguar
Roussillon, Provence, France
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Aristides sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:

Not that mine is the final word by any means but it seems to me
that only the aftermarket parking brake pads seem to suffer from
such problems. The quality of these mass produced replacment parts
seems to vary quite a bit…and it’s hard to know ahead of time if
you’re buying good one or junk. Considering the labor involved I
have to wonder if this is one area where stepping up to the plate
for OEM parts might be worthwhile?

Or dream up a better solution, as you did…which was pretty
clever :slight_smile:

As for the handbrake design, yeah, it isn’t very good. And the
pros/cons of inboard brakes has long been debated. I think Jaguar
was aiming for and achieved an engineering milestone with an even-
less-than-usual regard for future ease-of-repair.

I’ve had opportunity recently to work on some '60s vintage
Corvettes with the drum type parking brake incorporated into the
rear brake rotors. If it’ll make you feel any better I’ll say that
repairing those isn’t a pleasure cruise by any means…although
having outboard brakes takes away some (OK…a lot) of the misery.

Cheers
DD–
The original message included these comments:

I really don’t know what would have caused this… but I
Why on earth they did not put outboard brakes and drum
handbrakes ? Yes I know, extra moving mass on the wheels,
but does it really worth it ?


Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:

I used to have an old '82 Mercury Grand Marquis that came up
needing a brake job. I bought the middle grade parts-store brand
brake pads. One day shortly thereafter I heard a horrible grinding
noise from the right front while braking. The friction lining had
completely seperated from the steel backing, and the steel was
grinding away at the rotor. And on an '82 Mercury, the rotor and
the hub are all one big piece. Obviously, I was a very unhappy
camper. In hindsight, I should have tried to make the parts store
pay for the new rotor, but I bit the bullet and paid for the
replacement part myself.–
Robert Allen
Huntsville, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

Aristides wrote:

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Tue 1 Feb 2011:

Frank,

I really don’t know what would have caused this… but I
know for sure that the pads were not rubbing and that the
brake was not on while moving.

Over all though I can tell that the Datsun pads look much
more robust and better glued than the original ones.
The slot for the screw on the original ones does not help
the situation much and combined with a thin plate that
bends, the pads crack.

Yes, the handbrake was not one of Jaguar’s best efforts…
Why on earth they did not put outboard brakes and drum
handbrakes ? Yes I know, extra moving mass on the wheels,
but does it really worth it ?

Anyone working on the parking brake, and trying to get the thing to hold
reasonably well would swear it is not, Aristides…:slight_smile:

In theory Jaguar could have kept the inboards, but added handbrake drums
to the disc - like almost all disc brake car makers did at the time. It
would not have made the handbrake system any easier to access, but it
would also have less need for it. Having the hand brake pads working
mechanically on discs was always…hm…marginal as disc pads require
extremely high pressures to work effectively…

That said; the OEM pads only delaminates with ‘misuse’; ie like trying
to use the handbrake as an emergency brake to stop a car in motion.
Which has little effect due to too little pressure, and with enough
pressure the rather smal pads will quickly overheat and rip loose.
Bigger pads would have been less prone to this, but with limited
room…so there we are…

Your conversion is interesting and hopefully works as well as the OEMs -
which by and large is marginal anyway…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)>The original message included these comments:

Due to the small pad area, Aristides; if the brakes are on, pulled or
not fully released while moving. For sure; this may
indeed be bad quality - and the Datsun pads may not be that suitable
either. But do ensure that there is no problems that can cause the pads
to scrub on - or you’ll have a quick repeat…:slight_smile:
The handbrake solution is not one of Jaguars best efforts…:slight_smile:

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:

Reminds me of a story on possibly the’‘Sixty Minutes’’ program a few
years ago. The care and feeding of mid fifties American cars under
the embargo. One fellow’s cottage industry was relining brake shoes
and clutch discs. Probably no disc pads on these cars. The idea is
the same. Bare handed mixing the ASBESTOS fibres with the bionder,
thence tothe mold on to the backers. Baked in what looked like a
pottery oven and then ground to the finish shape. Meal time, the
siesta included big havana cigars, what else, huh. When asked as
to the risks, they were nonchalant. Another part was the
resusitation of a big old Mopar. It was up on two hydraulic post
jacks andthe mechanic was busily working under it!!! No a young
guy, either???

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

Due to the small pad area, Aristides; if the brakes are on, pulled or
not fully released while moving. For sure; this may
indeed be bad quality - and the Datsun pads may not be that suitable
either. But do ensure that there is no problems that can cause the pads
to scrub on - or you’ll have a quick repeat…:slight_smile:
The handbrake solution is not one of Jaguars best efforts…:slight_smile:


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

cadjag wrote:

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:

Reminds me of a story on possibly the’‘Sixty Minutes’’ program a few
years ago. The care and feeding of mid fifties American cars under
the embargo. One fellow’s cottage industry was relining brake shoes
and clutch discs. Probably no disc pads on these cars. The idea is
the same. Bare handed mixing the ASBESTOS fibres with the bionder,
thence tothe mold on to the backers. Baked in what looked like a
pottery oven and then ground to the finish shape. Meal time, the
siesta included big havana cigars, what else, huh. When asked as
to the risks, they were nonchalant. Another part was the
resusitation of a big old Mopar. It was up on two hydraulic post
jacks andthe mechanic was busily working under it!!! No a young
guy, either???

And with a perfect memory to boot, Bill…:slight_smile:

I’m in two minds as to the legalized risk adversity of modern western
society…:))

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)>The original message included these comments:

Due to the small pad area, Aristides; if the brakes are on, pulled or
not fully released while moving. For sure; this may
indeed be bad quality - and the Datsun pads may not be that suitable
either. But do ensure that there is no problems that can cause the pads
to scrub on - or you’ll have a quick repeat…:slight_smile:
The handbrake solution is not one of Jaguars best efforts…:slight_smile:

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Wed 2 Feb 2011:

PS:

I forgot to include the locale of the brake production, Cuba!!

Carl–
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from cadjag sent Thu 3 Feb 2011:

I tend to think Cuba has some of the best auto mechanics on the
planet, simply due to the sheer amount of what would be
called ‘‘redneck engineering’’ in Texas. They don’t throw anything
away down there. It all gets rebuilt. Like the old saying goes,
Neccesity is the mother of invention. (Or in this case, the mother
of ingenuity).–
Robert Allen
Huntsville, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

I had exactly the same issue. Handbrake pads installed in 2011 but very little use and one just desintegrated resulting in a scored disk so I had to lower IRS again.
The pads were from powertunes and they are still on the market .
Interesting to see that you had the same problem that year, maybe bad luck with the batch …
I will buy Jaguar original, damn expensive at 120 euro but i do not want to lower the IRS again. Lets see
Best
Rui

Nonono – this has been discussed in more recent threads. Don’t buy the OEM handbrake pads of any ilk. Instead, buy a set of disc brake pads from some tiny Japanese car and cut them down to size. Easy peasy, and results in a perfectly reliable handbrake.

Or county, or ferodo… both seem well made and so on. Cheap too.

**
The pads will be seriously impaired if they are not released, Rui - they will overheat and disintegrate, and more so if contaminated by oil/brake fluid…

It’s not always the manufacturers fault…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Frank, I am 100% sure the handbrake was never pulled when the car is driving and it was fully restored 10 years ago. Besides i do not believe having it used often. It is a quality issue clearly as reported by several members here in the forum, no other explanation, as i can see also on the way it simply disintegrated.