[xj] Horns? I ain't got no stinkin' horns!

On the ‘77 XJ 6 C I don’t have working horns.
Now, I don’t mind sticking my head out and yelling; ‘‘Hey!
I’m drivin’ here!’’
But really I should get this fixed.
I’ve trouble shot back from the horns, and they work at each
stage until I get to the slip ring in the steering column.
It’s not going to ground through the ring.
Has anyone else had this problem, and what was your solution?
I could go air horns on the roof, but all that windage will
slow me down.–
'77XJ-C, '80 Spitfire (non-stock)
Tacoma, WA, United States
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On the ‘77 XJ 6 C I don’t have working horns.
Now, I don’t mind sticking my head out and yelling; ‘‘Hey!
I’m drivin’ here!’’
But really I should get this fixed.
I’ve trouble shot back from the horns, and they work at each
stage until I get to the slip ring in the steering column.
It’s not going to ground through the ring.
Has anyone else had this problem, and what was your solution?

I have, Mitch - but the solution depends on a precise diagnosis…

The ground path is intricate; relay ground (black wire) to slipring, via
the brass finger. The slipring is fitted to the lower steering shaft -
insulated from it. A small spring, insulated, connects the slipring to a
central brass rod inside the lower steering shaft. Which goes up to be
connected with the steering wheel horn pad vie a sliding spear inside the
upper steering shaft.

…so ground is provided by the horn pad contact, which, when pushed,
ground the rod to by the steering wheel metal…

To wit, the slipring is only grounded while the horn button is pushed - but
the failure to ground the slipring may be anywhere in the line. First step
is to remove the horn pad to ensure that the horn contact actually grounds -
jumpwire to ground as appropriate. You may then remove the upper shaft with
the steering wheel to access the central rod - again jumpwire to ensure
central rod grounding…

The fault may then be a broken spring between the central rod and the
slipring. To access; you need to dismantle the steering column - extracting
the lower steering shaft to access the slipring. This can be slid downwards,
freeing the two-part insulator and releasing the spring…

…which can be replaced, but there are no spare parts available for the
steering column - with any fault with the column, including horn faults; the
rack is supposed to be replaced in toto. This is a safety issue - with any
damage the column is into to be tampered with. But it’s a bloody
nuisance…:slight_smile:

Incidentally, the most usual horn fault is that it toots on its own accord -
due to insulation failure. The repair process is the same…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

I could go air horns on the roof, but all that windage will
slow me down.-----Original Message-----
From: Mitch in Tac
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 5:36 PM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xj] Horns? I ain’t got no stinkin’ horns!

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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

Thanks Frank, you’ve pretty much confirmed my suspicions
about that.
Maybe I’ll just go with silver air horns on the fenders -
maybe with red throats - and a big orange button on the console.

Well, at least a small black button to bypass the slip ring.–
The original message included these comments:

The fault may then be a broken spring between the central rod and the
slipring. To access; you need to dismantle the steering column - extracting
the lower steering shaft to access the slipring. This can be slid downwards,
freeing the two-part insulator and releasing the spring…
…which can be replaced, but there are no spare parts available for the
steering column - with any fault with the column, including horn faults; the
rack is supposed to be replaced in toto. This is a safety issue - with any
damage the column is into to be tampered with. But it’s a bloody
nuisance…:slight_smile:


'77XJ-C, '80 Spitfire (non-stock)
Tacoma, WA, United States
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In reply to a message from Mitch in Tac sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

Me neither.

OK, by me!!! I believe in steer, brake or accelerate, not
toot.

My daughter has my Jeep while her Passat is getting fixed,
again!!! she ‘‘complained’’ that it’s horn didn’t work. but,
knew of my dislike of them, so didn’t worry about it. I
erred. I pointed out that the touch pads were on the ends
of the spoke near the rim, not in the center as that is
where the air bag is!

She reported, yowee, two tones, one quiet and one loud!!!

Shouldn’t have done that. More noise pollution.

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

Well, at least a small black button to bypass the slip ring.


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

My cruise control bit the dust long ago, but the rocker
console switch is now my horn button after some rewiring.
My horn was on all the time and dint want to disassemble
column.–
Bruce Kimball 1982 XJ6 1987 VDP
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In reply to a message from cadjag sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

‘’ I believe in steer, brake or accelerate, not toot.’’

I’m with you on that one Carl. I drive so many different cars
I reasoned a long time ago that defensive driving was better
than working out where the horn press is in whatever car I
happen to be driving at the time and giving a ‘‘toot’’.–
Dave Collishaw '79 Daimler Sovereign '96 X305 '56 BSA A10
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Bruce Kimball sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

Well, IF my car had cruise control that would be the way to
go, but it don’t, so I won’t.
Gonna get a horn button and stick it over on the wife’s side
of the car. She’s the one a;ways telling me I should honk at
that idiot. let her do it.–
The original message included these comments:

My cruise control bit the dust long ago, but the rocker
console switch is now my horn button after some rewiring.
My horn was on all the time and dint want to disassemble
column.


'77XJ-C, '80 Spitfire (non-stock)
Tacoma, WA, United States
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In reply to a message from Mitch in Tac sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

Some years ago, I saw a well worn Jaguar E type in a
parking lot at a medical complex. It was a roadster. I
could not tell if it was still V12 or 4.2 powered.

Very dignified car, with tons of patina. But, on the wood
fascia was a door bell button. Was it to toot or to crank
the engine?

One of the great unsolved mysteries of life.

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

My horn was on all the time and dint want to disassemble


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Fri 17 Oct 2014:

Thanks Frank, you’ve pretty much confirmed my suspicions
about that.
Maybe I’ll just go with silver air horns on the fenders -
maybe with red throats - and a big orange button on the console.

Well, at least a small black button to bypass the slip ring.

As long as it satisfy vehicle inspectors, Mitch…:slight_smile:

My problem was constant hooting, and duet to unfamiliarity with the set-up I
wound up bending the central rod, so cutting my losses I replaced the
column - as the inspectors rejected the separate small black button…:slight_smile:

Strangely enough, dismantling the ‘old’ column; I found absolutely no clues
to the original problem - and refurbished it to full working order using
readily available hardware. I admit looking for other fancy solutions using
the original horn pad. Like winding a long wire around the rack to allow
steering wheel rotation while connected to the relay. I even considered a
radio/infrared controlled relay operation, activated by the original horn
button…

…by and large, repairing the rack was rather simpler…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

The original message included these comments:-----Original Message-----
From: Mitch in Tac
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:24 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] Horns? I ain’t got no stinkin’ horns!

The fault may then be a broken spring between the central rod and the
slipring. To access; you need to dismantle the steering column -
extracting
the lower steering shaft to access the slipring. This can be slid
downwards,
freeing the two-part insulator and releasing the spring…
…which can be replaced, but there are no spare parts available for the
steering column - with any fault with the column, including horn faults;
the
rack is supposed to be replaced in toto. This is a safety issue - with any
damage the column is into to be tampered with. But it’s a bloody
nuisance…:slight_smile:

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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Sat 18 Oct 2014:

Frank:

Yes, you! Others like me struggle and have varying degrees
of success or none at all.

The cranking rachet on the little Briggs and Stratton
engine has me perplexed. And, geez, I figured it out once.
I forgot the solution???

I did figure out and fix the kill switch fault, I think. In
any event, I have a plan ‘‘B’’ for that.

And the choke cam, fixed that as well,

So, if I get the thing back together and can crank it, it
might just run!!!

On topic, the Jaguar continues to purr, albeit ‘‘tootless’’.

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

…by and large, repairing the rack was rather simpler…:slight_smile:


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Sat 18 Oct 2014:

Frank:

Yes, you! Others like me struggle and have varying degrees
of success or none at all.

The cranking rachet on the little Briggs and Stratton
engine has me perplexed. And, geez, I figured it out once.
I forgot the solution???

I did figure out and fix the kill switch fault, I think. In
any event, I have a plan ‘‘B’’ for that.

And the choke cam, fixed that as well,

So, if I get the thing back together and can crank it, it
might just run!!!

On topic, the Jaguar continues to purr, albeit ‘‘tootless’’.

My horns are used twice a year, Carl - by the vehicle testing people…:slight_smile:

As for B&S engines; my fathers refused to start; opening it up I found dust
and dead spiders in the sump - no oil. And a broken connecting rod…:))

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

Carl

The original message included these comments:-----Original Message-----
From: cadjag
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:57 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] Horns? I ain’t got no stinkin’ horns!

…by and large, repairing the rack was rather simpler…:slight_smile:

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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Sat 18 Oct 2014:

Frank:

Either J-L or my machine is cranky this morning. It can not
keep up with my typing speed. That is bad as ‘‘speed’’ is a
misnomer!!!

Well, I fixed the cranking rachet. I used a tab of Vaseline
to keep each of the four roller balls on the outter
perimeter of the cage. Then I could insert the drive. Then
used my heat gun to melt the vaeeline and allow the balls
to drop into place. Was that my solution last time, I don’t
recall. it works, I can crank it. it fired three times and
no more!!! Unhooked the kill wire. Still no fire.

So, enough of ignition fussing, although I’m not sure I
have dependable spark.

I’ll remove it’s primitive suction carb and give it a good
cleaning and see wehat that does.

Way back when, I was given a riding lawn mower. Poor
condition, including a hole in the crankcase of it’s
horizontal shaft B&S. Oh, oh, the mower deck got tossed in
some past cleanup!!

Well, son took it to his place and fixed it as a yard
tractor. TIG welded the crank case hole closed. New
innards. Amazingly, the crank was OK. It runs pretty good.

Now he has a bout three of the little ones, all running to
one extent or another, but none with working mower decks.
That sewems to be typical.

All surp[assed by a very early Case tractor. swapped a
Renault Caravelle for it straight across. both a tad
scroungy. Case nowe cleaned up, tuned up and outside the
fact that it has a lot of blow by works quite well.

Son is a genius with his hands. Finnishing an addition to
the garage/shop in the Sierras.

Some of this stuff must translate to fixing Jaguars and
thusly be in context??

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

My horns are used twice a year, Carl - by the vehicle testing people…:slight_smile:
As for B&S engines; my fathers refused to start; opening it up I found dust
and dead spiders in the sump - no oil. And a broken connecting rod…:))


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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Yeah, yeah, I know - it’s been a while.
Since then I 've had two knees replaced, done therapy and relearned walking. It took me a year before i could get back into the Jag, 18 months on the Spitfire (It’s still very difficult to bend the keft leg enough).
I’m not whining - I chose doing both at once.
All that being said, after more searching after I could get down on the floor, roll onto my back and spending lots of time scanning the steering shaft I discovered the lower slip-ring of the horn circuit was broken.
Not being prepared to replace a whole upper steering shaft I jury-rigged a horn button between the broken slip-ring and ground.
The button cost two bux, and is held on with double-sided tape just under the ignition lock.
Mo Betta Now!

Fair enough, Mitch - but I have never heard about a ‘broken’ slipring…?

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

Not a spring- a slip-ring; a method of maintaining electrical contact while a shaft rotates. (not trying to be snarky, just clear)
This is a none-conductive part with a coductive strip, so the horn can de tooted at any wheel position.
there are two on my steering shaft, and the lower one is in pieces, so the circuit is open.

Frank. my apologies, I just re-read you message and realized I had misread a word. I read ‘spring’ when you wrote ‘slipring’. My bad.
Mine was indeed busted; literally a piece taken out of it. They don’t seem to work too well in that condition.
Mitch

**
The slipring is connected internally by a spring to a brass rod inside the shafts. Mitch. The rod then connects to ground by the horn button when pressed - a crass finger contacting the slipring to the reloay, grounding it to sound the horn. And you are right; without the slipring intact horns sure do not t work ‘too well’…

I was just curious: the usual fault is that the slipring or rod is grounded - the slipring is indeed in too halves…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**