XJ needs to be moved after 20 years... help please

Congratulations, well deserved result for staying the distance long after most would have given up. Enjoy.

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Yep congratulations Max just so you know, you might think you ‘own’ the jag but you will soon realize it owns you,(if you haven’t already :grin:)

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I join the chorus of congratulations, Max - a very well deserved success for your trials, tribulations, patience and perseverance!

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

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Just like any cat - always the servant never the master :grimacing:

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I’d like to add my voice to the chorus of congratulations - well done Max :grinning:

Your perseverance has been a lesson to us all - many times many of us (I’m sure) have felt like giving up but the rewards are there if you don’t.

You will continue to find faults, some that don’t want to be fixed quickly and easily and some that do but you will have the pleasure of owning and enjoying one of the best cars ever made anywhere.

I know that new cars do many things better but that’s not the point. You have somethng very special and you should be proud of yourself and your car. :grinning:

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Max,

We all know how that feels. And no, you can never go back to ”normal” again now that you know how it feels to be behind the wheel of a running XJ. :smiley: (or ”ex-jot”)

So when your fellow countrymen wonder what is wrong with you, you can just nod and carry on as you know something many of them do not

Welcome to the club, now you are a full member with honors, sir!

Cheers!

Ps. Greetings from Helsinki, we just got some snow, so no driving for me for a while, although the MKV DHC would need an MOT. :laughing:

Ps. 2. I got it done, well the directional indicators do not work, but they were not compulsory back in 1950 so I may get away without them. The weather however is not on my side now. The posting on the Saloons forum: What did you do to your saloon today? - #10 by ptelivuo

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Woohoo! Herzlichen Glückwunsch zur bestandenen Zulassung!
Now, switch fuel feed before it sucks in a lot of crap… :wink:

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Thanks everyone for your kind words. Weather has been less than ideal even for my regular car. So I have managed to put about 100km on it. It seems to be a little hesistant to start first start of the day. But it will always start within 30 sek. Starts after that are instant. Maybe this is somewhat normal for an old car.

As I said the transmission is somewhat doing its 3 gear dance at the wrong beat. I know I was supposed to hook up a pressure gauge on the bottom but I never could find a fitting that worked and the threads are already a little weak. I really do not wish to have a leaking transmission.

So David suggested to to start out with a somewhat “harder” shift and go from there. 1-2 is about 20km/h but 2-3 close to 60. So so I attempted to correct that with the cable position/tension and that made the shifts smoother but did not do much of anything to the 2-3 gear. In fact at some point I was not even sure if it shifted into 3 at all or if it was so smooth and without a RPM drop that I could not tell. I did notice that the downshift was coming way before the actually end of the pedal. So I returned to where I started.

For some reason this back and forth permanently changed my idle speed in P/N to about 950. In gear it is now at 700-750. Not sure how that happened. I am a bit confused about how that all works. I could lower it again or maybe something is sticky…

The hesitation is still gone so that is good. Who knows. maybe it just needed some exercise or it has to do with the higher RPM?

Unfortunately I have developed a coolant leak by the water pump. I am super unhappy about this one as I have installed and reinstalled the water pump like 5 times and this is a brand new unit… NOT COOL! I is not much it just has a slow drop situation that runs down the large hose to the radiator. The puddle never gets larger than 3-5cm. I had hoped that I do not have to touch that again!

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Again, you‘ve got it wrong and the cable is still too tight. 1-2 should be almost instant. Loosen it right to the limit of adjustment and if still no good look at where the cable goes into the casting.
Confirming 3 is easy by shifting into 2!

With the delayed cold start, no that is not normal for any car but be happy that it runs. Cold start injector etc…

Pushing around the throttle body is not that difficult and then you know if it’s binding……

Your idle speed changed to 950 probably because you have been giving the engine long overdue ‘exercise’ during which years worth of accumulated dirt have probably been blown out of the air flow meter and throttle body., assuming you don’t have any leaks in any of the air hoses. I experienced a similar situation which was rectified by placing and tightening a clamp around the bulbous hose on top of the front of the engine. Congratulations on a job well done.
Mel R.

you mean a vacuum leak at the breather?

I think it’s from working around the throttle body.

That’s very possible

[quote=“XJFamilyJag, post:1478, topic:400182, full:true”]
It seems to be a little hesistant to start first start of the day. But it will always start within 30 sek. Starts after that are instant. Maybe this is somewhat normal for an old car.
[unquote]

It is not normal, Max - and age has got nothing to do with it; nominally it should start within 4 - 6 seconds from cold…:slight_smile:

Normal suspects are the throttle gap, the AAV the CTS and AAV. And you can, and should, of course adjust the idle down by the idle screw…

[quote]
1-2 is about 20km/h but 2-3 close to 60. So so I attempted to correct that with the cable position/tension and that made the shifts smoother but did not do much of anything to the 2-3 gear. In fact at some point I was not even sure if it shifted into 3 at all or if it was so smooth and without a RPM drop that I could not tell. I did notice that the downshift was coming way before the actually end of the pedal. So I returned to where I started.
[unquote]

At light throttle the 2/3 upshift should follow almost immediately after the 1/2 upshift. In fact, with your high idle the 2/3 upshift might even occur without any throttle input at all…

Any throttle input will delay upshifts - and the ‘60 km/h’ may relate to this rather than downshift cable adjustment.

The shifting should indeed be silky smooth to imperceptible under light throttle - jerky usually means incorrect downshift cable adjustment. All this is why using pressure to set the cable - and using pressure may also reveal any faults…

Furthermore; travelling in 3rd under light throttle , say at 40km/h, applying ‘a bit more’ throttle the box will downshift - there is no need to floor the pedal for 3/2 downshift.

Applying pedal means, to the box, that the driver wants more power - which, at some stage, can only be had by more rpms; which requires downshift. The box combines rpms, throttle position and road speed to decide on downshift. The higher the road speed/rpms the more pedal is required for downshifting - and conversely; more pedal applied during acceleration, the later the upshift…

Be aware that the downshift cable adjustment is very sensitive - a quarter turn is noticeable on the pressure gauge. And the engine must not be running while adjusting…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)

  1. It’s not terribly difficult to remove the entire water rail (don’t loose the gaskets) which will make working on the stat housing MUCH easier.

  2. I had a dead low-beam recently, turned out to be a bad connection between the fuse holder and the back of the box - you could wiggle the fuse and it would cut in and out. I need to fix it properly but for now I just wadded up something so the cover lightly pressed down on the fuse.

Max,

sorry, I didn’t find the extra time to attend the forum for some days, so please accept my delayed congratulations as well! You did a tremendous job! Frankly, I wouldn’t know any other person your age to day - and only a handful of other persons over some decades - that would have delved into this matter like you did, not only coping with big issues (engine shot, water pump etc), but also keeping yourself in up to your elbows cleaning, reconditioning, rust-proofing and up-grading!

Before you get into it again, maybe you just get the car into some regular action. Exercise it a bit on the motorway - no, no maxxing out, simply have it running at 4k for 20 mins and see how it behaves. I suppose a lot of things will either smoothen out or show up and give you a much better picture of what is really needed. If the gearbox bands are tensioned to specs, there shouldn’t be a big deal about shifts. Following some hundred kilometers you might just start with a refill of ATF and another check of the cable as suggested by others. The season isn’t exactly “the year of the cat”, but there should be dry days and there isn’t much salt on the roads in Münster, is it?

Good luck and enjoy your newly found driving conscience!

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

Well, thanks for the advice and the kind words. I wish I could say its been a delight… Actually it was until today. I have driven around town with short trips on the slower streets with 80kmh always not much more than 15-20km from home for about 300km. It was all pretty good except for the obvious fuel consumption burning a whole in my college fund… I had gained some confidence in my work. I had adjusted the idle again. Back down to 750 and in gear it would go down to 550 with my foot on the break. I had been working the transmission screw slowly and it was coming down to 45ish and when accelerating EXTREMELY slow it would actually shift at the 30ish that it is supposed to.

I figured what the heck so I wanted to show off my car and visit my sister. The way there was all fine and dandy. Left the car outside for the first time in god knows 25+ years. I figured it would flood in the rain or whatever but no… I had the entire trunk full of tools and a good car jack and whatever I had in the garage. I figured if I bring everything I wont need it…

So this morning I got in the car turned the key and there she was. Great. So I put on some tunes and off I went. Mind you I never exceeded 3500rmp and that comes out to like a 120km/h with tops of 140. Easy comfortable cruiser. I guess you all know something is about to give. I have no idea when it started but for a few second while breaking and going down hill I got a red Oil alert. It turned off within maybe 15 seconds.Tunes off and I was now pretty much in emergency state. Looked out the review mirror. Nothing. Seems to run fine.

OK, what now? I guess I will get off the next exit. So I did. Parked the car and with the engine running I inspected the engine bay and pulled the dip stick. Half full on the marked area. All good. So I shut her off went to get a drink and figured it should be more oil after I shut her off and let her sit for a bit. When I came back I actually found less oil on the stick so I went to investigate under the car. Found a bit of a leak situation around the oil filter. It was really quite a mess around the whole area. With oil I can never tell how much is a lot since it always gets everywhere. I got my towel out and cleaned everything off tried to figure out what the heck went wrong. I tightened everything I could get a wrench or a nut on but I never found the “obvious” thing. I then went to a gas station and realized that they sell oil made with gold flakes… I had to break my piggy bank buy some outrageously expensive oil. Not cool. Note to self never leave the house without oil. This one is on me… I have plenty of the good stuff at home.

I figured as long as I have oil pressure on the gauge in the normal range 3-5 I should have plenty of oil right? So I sort of limped home while hearing all sorts of odd noises that where probably all in my head… It was the longest few kilometers ever. I pulled into the garage shoved a big oven pan under then engine and shut the garage…today was kind of a kick in the nuts!

Ohh … sh … t!:frowning: Certainly not a nice afternoon - great though you made it home and didn’t suffer any bigger harm than the economic damage of an overpriced can of oil …

Actually, my first close encounter of the third kind with a Jaguar XJ was a SI car that some fellow had kind of rejuvenated and wanted to sell. To make the story short: while the test ride was great, the car dumped a huge amount of oil on my landlord’s driveway upon returning. From the distance your experience reminds me a lot of this incidence. Needless to say, at the time I refrained from buying the car, but later was told the problem was easily fixed.

On a freshly rebuilt motor the first real warm up may reveal leaks: how is the valley between the cam covers? It usually takes some care to get the seals right. In most cases real oil puddles come from the external oil tubes though. Your SIII car has an oil cooler - it might well be that this was the first time the stat at the cooler (there is one, isn’t there?) opened and allowed oil pressure into the cooling circuit.

The thing that would distress me more is the oil alert. I’m usually on the low side of the dipstick marking, but I never had the idiot light come on, no matter whether braking or downhill. Maybe something is amiss inside the oil pan causing the pump to suck in air instead of oil? What did the oil pressure guage say while the idiot light was on?

It is quite typical of our engines that oil pressure at idle drops considerably with the engine oil getting to operating temps. The important thing is to keep pressure under load. I always felt comfy with 20 psi at 2k RPM. Other that that the oil pressure guages are not exactly chronometers. They rather allow you to see changes … It certainly would be recommendable to source a serious pressure guage to be certain about what is going on, especially with the engine warming up. Usually the sender triggering the idiot light is set very low, so when it goes on anyway there is reason for concern. That being said, the senders are not bullet proof and rather cheap to replace.

Good luck

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

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I am not exactly sure what it said the first time around on the highway. It did come on for a few seconds on the slow way home after that but that was always in idle stopped at a light. By the end of the of on the last mile I noticed that it was building pressure slower when getting off the light. But it had 3 on gauge under load all the way home.

on the highway before this event I took a Picture at 3400 and 140 it has close to 5 on the gauge.

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Nah … you did nothing wrong, which doesn’t exclude that something is wrong, but shouldn’t disturb your sleep.

Now, just from looking at your dashboard, I’d say that you should forget about that 88°C t-stat. Water temp looks just perfect for a ride at 3500 RPM. Maybe you get an infrared thermometer and can verify temperature at the t-stat housing.

Voltage seems to be at the low side though (you should see close to 14 V) - and low voltage may cause all kinds of misbehaviour. Take Carl’s advice and make up a cigar lighter plug for your DMM and check onboard voltage. It is worth it!

As for the oil pressure: your guage counts bar, mine counts psi. IIRC, there is a limiter to 60 psi (4.14 bar) sitting in the oil filter base. 5 bar would be clearly too much. Maybe the limiter is shot, the oil pressure went too high with high speed and RPM and the oil found its way out of the system …

3 bar is over 40 psi and more than enough.

Maybe you start your Sunday with some research on the oil pressure limiter in the SIII cars - they are different from SII cars! -, but I think you will master this issue as well:-)

Good luck

Jochen

75 XJ6L 4.2 auto (UK spec)

[quote]
I had adjusted the idle again. Back down to 750 and in gear it would go down to 550 with my foot on the break. I had been working the transmission screw slowly and it was coming down to 45ish and when accelerating EXTREMELY slow it would actually shift at the 30ish that it is supposed to.
[unqote]

The box is very sensitive to pedal position, Max, as it is to cable adjustment. ‘Accelerating’ implies more pedal than required - to upshift at 30 kph you just need enough pedal to maintain 30ish. More pedal means later upshifts - ‘light throttle’ sort of means ‘no acceleration’.

Correct cable adjustment also means that the shifts are dead smooth/imperceptible - there should be no jerking. Main point is that with correct adjustments and everything works as they should; shifting points are spot on and and the shifting is dead smooth.

To use the cable adjustment to correct shift points at the cost of rough shifting may just mask a problem. Which is why using pressure to adjust the cable is preferable…:slight_smile:

The most likely cause of your high fuel consumption is the short trips taken - and possible enthusiastic driving. The consumption usually quoted is for steady cruising, not frequent change in speed - and certainly not idling in traffic. And incorrect cable adjustments does not help…:slight_smile:

[quote]
I have no idea when it started but for a few second while breaking and going down hill I got a red Oil alert. It turned off within maybe 15 seconds.Tunes off and I was now pretty much in emergency state.
[unquote]

The oil pump pick-up is at the rear of the sump, so going downhill, or braking causes oil to surge forward. With low(ish) oil level the pump may briefly suck air, and the warning light comes on very quickly - the gauge’s response is much slower…

[quote]
So I shut her off went to get a drink and figured it should be more oil after I shut her off and let her sit for a bit. When I came back I actually found less oil on the stick
[unquote]

Which is somewhat odd - oil drains back into the engine when stopped. However, it is preferable to check oil levels with the engine stopped - with the engine running it is quite possible to misread the stick level…

The markings on the stick are ‘min/max’, and nominally anything in between is OK. There is no need to fill to the ‘max’ mark; the xk engine very quickly burns of the top pint or two - a total waste…

With an unknown engine; regular oil level checks under identical conditions, preferably engine cold/before starting. This will give a consistent reading to asses possible leaks or consumption…

There is always a quandary when two indicators differ - which do you trust. The oil warning lamp nominally comes on instantly when the pressure drops below some 5 psi - the gauge lags behind.

With low idle, waiting in traffic with the engine hot, it is not unusual for the warning light to flicker vaguely. It is not alarming - at low rpms the engine doesn’t need much oil pressure, and the sensor may just be on the high side…

Also, the gauge will show such low pressure under similar conditions. As Jochen suggests; it does not come amiss to verify the dash gauge with an external oil pressure gauge - just to make sure the dash gauge reads true. And of course to check for leaks as he advises - though most well used xk engines leak to some extent…

You did exactly right and there is no reason for worrying - your experience is par for the course! Just keep and eye on the oil level until satisfied it doesn’t drop excessively fast…

You may also up the idle a bit to get rid of the warning lamp flicker. Jaguar specifies a minimum pressure of 40 psi at 3000 rpms - and excessive pressure is not good either, as Jochen rightfully points out…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)