[xj] Noisy Fuel Pump

Hi One & All…!!

             Please could you help as to the likely cause of a 

noisy fuel pump. The whine has become noticable in the cabin as
well as outside the car… Its not particularly loud per se, just
louder than it ever has been. SFAIK its still the original pump so
has done 104K miles, filter changed 5yrs/30k ago. Could it simply
be filter clogging/clogged up with gunk??? Also, whilst nosing
around in the boot investigating the noise, I noticed that there is
water laying on the second(outer??) skin of the trunk/boot floor
panels, any ideas on that as well??
Apart from the noisiness in the pump dept, the car is running
smooth as silk and plenty of power etc etc

Hoping you can help

Regards

Steve

BTW Ser 111. uk spec, 86, 4.2 auto–
StevieD 520 '86 S111 Sovereign 21 & still going strong!
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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sat 17 Feb 2007:

Steve:

  1. Yes it could be just goop in the pump increasing the noise.

  2. As it is basicaly an el;ectric motor, it could be on its way to
    failure.

  3. Perhaps the rubber mounts have detiorated allowing resonance to
    the boot metal.

Hope it’s number three, and eassily fixed with new foam as in pipe
insulation.

Good Luck

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

Apart from the noisiness in the pump dept, the car is running
smooth as silk and plenty of power etc etc


Carl Hutchins
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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sat 17 Feb 2007:

Steve

Couldn’t hurt to change that fuel filter, if it’s plugging up then
the whine could be the pump straining to draw enough fuel in.
If it is plugging you should soon consider draining and cleaning
the tank and checking it’s condition.
Did the 86’s have two? my 85 did.
Randy–
The original message included these comments:

has done 104K miles, filter changed 5yrs/30k ago. Could it simply
be filter clogging/clogged up with gunk??? Also, whilst nosing


–>1987 XJ40 Sov.3.6L
Victoria BC, Canada
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The filter is AFTER the pump, so that is not the cause of the noise,
although changing it is not a bad idea. But there are thimble filters on
the pick-up pipe in each fuel tank. If the pump noise changes as you
switch tanks, you have found the problem: a clogged thimble filter. You
can remove the plug at the bottom of the tank, pull the filter off (it
is a simple press fit, but it helps to twist it a bit as you pull),
clean it and refit. The filters are available new from Jaguar. All
Series III cars from 1979 to 1992 are identical in this respect.
Obviously the tank should be at empty before this is done, but even so
there will be a litre or more of fuel left at the bottom.

Gregory
Victoria, Canada.
1966 Mark 2 3.8
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
2002 X-Type-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of BCMedic
Sent: February 17, 2007 3:31 PM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] Noisy Fuel Pump

In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sat 17 Feb 2007:

Steve

Couldn’t hurt to change that fuel filter, if it’s plugging up then
the whine could be the pump straining to draw enough fuel in.
If it is plugging you should soon consider draining and cleaning
the tank and checking it’s condition.
Did the 86’s have two? my 85 did.
Randy

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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sat 17 Feb 2007:

Your due for fuel problems. I change my fuel filter once a year,
you will need a new fuel pump very soon.
Its a good idea at this mileage to drain the tanks and clean
the filters.
The fuel hoses need to be changed in the trunk area and what
ever else was neglected.

                                       Walter
                                       78XJ6 ser.II--

The original message included these comments:

             Please could you help as to the likely cause of a 

noisy fuel pump. The whine has become noticable in the cabin as
louder than it ever has been. SFAIK its still the original pump so
has done 104K miles, filter changed 5yrs/30k ago. Could it simply
be filter clogging/clogged up with gunk??? Also, whilst nosing


Walter Schuster 78XJ6LFI Ser.II, 69Eser.II 2+2
Albuquerque/New Mexico, United States
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In reply to a message from BCMedic sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

hi …
Yeah thanx for the advice re the fuel filter being
clogged which could be the case as there have been a number of
occaisions recently where I’ve had to run the tanks pretty low…
And yes, my '86 does have the twin tanks and the loud pedal is
directly conected to my overdraft…hey ho…but aren’t they great
and worth the expense all the same…!!!

Regards

Steve–
The original message included these comments:

Couldn’t hurt to change that fuel filter, if it’s plugging up then
the whine could be the pump straining to draw enough fuel in.
Did the 86’s have two? my 85 did.


StevieD 520 '86 S111 Sovereign 21 & still going strong!
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In reply to a message from BCMedic sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Couldn’t hurt to change that ‘‘fuel filter’’, if it’s plugging up
then the whine could be the pump straining to draw enough fuel
in.

**Should of read, that ‘‘intank filter’’ (mind thinks one thing and
fingers type another!)

I have a fiberoptic camera I inserted into the gas tanks sender
opening on my 85 and found the top 1/3 of each tank had a layer of
rust. I could also see the sludge on the bottom. The intank filters
were nearly plugged with it.

Randy–
The original message included these comments:

Couldn’t hurt to change that fuel filter, if it’s plugging up then
the whine could be the pump straining to draw enough fuel in.


–>1987 XJ40 Sov.3.6L–Recent::85/XJ12
Victoria BC, Canada
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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sat 17 Feb 2007:

Steve
BTW: If you have the same lower wing panels below the tank like my
85 had, careful with those bolts (screws), mine were a Posi 3 I
think and nearly half of them broke off they were so tight.

On your water problem, on mine my youngest volunteered to sit in
the trunk with all the panels and carpet and tire ect. removed with
a flashlight. I then soaked the back of the car with the hose.
Found a bad antenna gasket.

Randy–
–>1987 XJ40 Sov.3.6L–Recent::85/XJ12
Victoria BC, Canada
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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Steve

I have an SII, so things won’t be the same, but are probably somewhat similar.
Before you buy a pump from a Jag supplier, do a topic archive check on this site.

What I found is that the S2 pumps are AC Delco oem. The $200 - 300 Jag supplier quotes
I was given were not on an AC because AC doesn’t make that item anymore, but on
an aftermarket equivalent. What this site told me was that this aftermarket replacement
was available at Autozone, for $28 ! [plus $15 for the ‘bag’ filter].

Well, it fit perfectly, but it’s a bit noisy and I can hear it when all’s quiet. But it’s not really
noise, but rather, music, a sweet melody reminding me how much I saved and that I didn’g get ripped off this time.

Good luck.
harrold–
hbalz �����’77 Series II lost in UP winter
CA > U.P. Michigan > SoCal, United States
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In reply to a message from Dr Gregory Andrachuk sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Hi,
I sit humbly at the feet of the learned and wise here,am
reasonably practical and have worked on different cars over the
years from time to time, but my instinct tells me that surely,
irrespective of where the filter is in the system then it being
clogged would make the pump noisier i.e trying to pull or push fuel
thru a restiction.
I take on board your comments about the thimble filters but have
observed that the noise is the same no matter which tank is
selected. So, in the first instance I will have a look at/ blow
thru’ the existing filter and see if that makes a difference and
will post my results. I will also check to see if there is a
mechanical reason for the noise i.e. the pump touching the bodywork
etc…

Thanx once again

Humbly yours

Steve–
The original message included these comments:

The filter is AFTER the pump, so that is not the cause of the noise,
although changing it is not a bad idea. But there are thimble filters on
the pick-up pipe in each fuel tank. If the pump noise changes as you
switch tanks, you have found the problem: a clogged thimble filter. You


StevieD 520 '86 S111 Sovereign 21 & still going strong!
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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

So, in the first instance I will have a look at/ blow
thru’ the existing filter and see if that makes a
difference and
will post my results. I will also check to see if there is a
mechanical reason for the noise i.e. the pump touching the
bodywork
etc…----------

Steve, don’t bother with just the filter. Your fuel pump is
about to blow up. Mine did at similar mileage and produced
an annoying loud hum. Your car will begin cutting out
suddenly when you make a turn, then one morning it will
explode and your car won’t start and turning the key will
spray fuel all over your trunk. Put in a new one, a cheap
aftermarket if you can find it, easiest job you’ll ever do.

Christopher Everett '87 Ser. III
Toledo/Ohio, United States
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1 Like

stevied 520 wrote:

In reply to a message from Dr Gregory Andrachuk sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Hi,
I sit humbly at the feet of the learned and wise here,am
reasonably practical and have worked on different cars over the
years from time to time, but my instinct tells me that surely,
irrespective of where the filter is in the system then it being
clogged would make the pump noisier i.e trying to pull or push fuel
thru a restiction.

The fuel pressure regulator is already giving such a restriction,
Steve…:slight_smile:

But a noisy pump can bear some scrutiny - a ‘raw’ pressure test will
reveal pump status, and provide 100% restriction for testing the other
aspects…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)===================================================
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In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Steve, the thimble filters Dr. Andrachuk mentions are very easily
clogged and can cause a great deal of difficulty for your fuel
pump. I removed the in-tank thimbles and then added two in-line
filters between the tanks and the changeover valve to protect the
pump from crud. The in-line filters are inexpensive and very easy
to check and replace as necessary.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1103397627--
The original message included these comments:

years from time to time, but my instinct tells me that surely,
irrespective of where the filter is in the system then it being
clogged would make the pump noisier i.e trying to pull or push fuel
thru a restiction.


Bruce Hugo '80 XJ6 SIII
St. Helens, OR, United States
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Restrictions on the suction of a fuel pump should be expected to have
different characteristics than restrictions on the discharge side.

Consider a household vacuum cleaner. Not a fair comparison, but it is a
pump. Block the suction, and the motor speed increases; block the
discharge, and it labors. No, I don’t expect a fuel pump to speed up with
the suction blocked, but an astute observer may discern something that is
characteristic of this condition.

Pumps in general are much less forgiving of restrictions on the intake side.
This is why you will only find rather coarse strainers on that side. Also
that is why only a modest obstruction on that strainer can have
consequences.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking you are protecting your pump by putting a
fine filter ahead of it. Believe me, the pump doesn’t need it.

Gene McGough
XJ6C II 1976
XK-150 FHC S834515DN----- Original Message -----
From: “Bruce Hugo” brucehugo@hotmail.com

In reply to a message from stevied 520 sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Steve, the thimble filters Dr. Andrachuk mentions are very easily
clogged and can cause a great deal of difficulty for your fuel
pump. I removed the in-tank thimbles and then added two in-line
filters between the tanks and the changeover valve to protect the
pump from crud. The in-line filters are inexpensive and very easy
to check and replace as necessary.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1103397627

The original message included these comments:

years from time to time, but my instinct tells me that surely,
irrespective of where the filter is in the system then it being
clogged would make the pump noisier i.e trying to pull or push fuel
thru a restiction.


Bruce Hugo '80 XJ6 SIII
St. Helens, OR, United States

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In reply to a message from Gene McGough sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Gene, I would hope you agree that the thimble filters in the tanks
are not terribly efficient, but the Jaguar engineers believed that
a filter between the tank and the pump was warranted or those
thimbles would not have been installed. The in-line filters, IMHO,
are simply an improvement on the original concept. The real
solution, of course, is to have pristine fuel tanks which I don’t.
When I change those in-line filters I find significant reddish crud
caught in the filters that otherwise would have been caught in the
pump. The filters are much less expensive that a new pump and if
nothing else they make me feel better. :)–
The original message included these comments:

Don’t make the mistake of thinking you are protecting your pump by putting a
fine filter ahead of it. Believe me, the pump doesn’t need it.


Bruce Hugo '80 XJ6 SIII
St. Helens, OR, United States
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In reply to a message from Bruce Hugo sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Hi Guys,
Thanx for the continuing advice on the noisy pump subject,
consensus now suggests I look at the thimble filters.
I’ve trawled the archive several times and looked in Haynes book,
but to no avail. Please could someone enlighten me as to how to get
to and remove/clean/replace these darned filters…??

Thanx once again gents for all help and advice so far…

Regards

Steve–
The original message included these comments:

Gene, I would hope you agree that the thimble filters in the tanks
are not terribly efficient, but the Jaguar engineers believed that


StevieD 520 '86 S111 Sovereign 21 & still going strong!
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Steve:

Your tanks should be near empty. Have a large container handy. Remove
the black plastic cover at the bottom of the rear quarter panel. You may
have to cut into it, if it is still in place. Alternatively you can go
through the rather involved process of removing the entire rear quarter
panel; this is not, however, necessary, and will cause a good deal of
frustration if the valence and bumper screws are rusted.

Once the black cover is removed you will see two large bolts, one within
the other. Remove the small one and drain the fuel out (lots of rust and
dirt will come out with it). Now remove the larger bolt/plug. You will
find the pick-up pipe right there, with the nylon mesh thimble filter
fitted to the end. As I wrote before, gently twist this filter off.
Clean it (or replace it with a new one, available from Jaguar, part
number CAC3762 or C29445). Clean as much of the dirt out of the bottom
of the tank as you can (at this point, with the drain open, you can put
some fuel through the top and allow it to flush through). Refit the
clean filter to the end of the pipe. Replace the bolts (new gaskets are
a good idea, part number C26310 for the large nut gasket and C26311 for
the small nut gasket). Put some fuel in to check for leaks. Done. You
can put a piece of flexible black rubber into the opening to cover the
bolts if you like, or you can follow the suggestions in Jagcare III, or
Alex Cannara’s suggestions. Many of these cars have no cover there at
this point in time.

Gregory
Victoria, Canada.
1966 Mark 2 3.8
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
2002 X-Type-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of stevied 520
Sent: February 18, 2007 8:45 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] Noisy Fuel Pump

In reply to a message from Bruce Hugo sent Sun 18 Feb 2007:

Hi Guys,
Thanx for the continuing advice on the noisy pump subject,
consensus now suggests I look at the thimble filters.
I’ve trawled the archive several times and looked in Haynes book,
but to no avail. Please could someone enlighten me as to how to get
to and remove/clean/replace these darned filters…??

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Gregory was referring to…
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1058576454--
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Dr Gregory Andrachuk wrote:

Steve:

Your tanks should be near empty. Have a large container handy. Remove
the black plastic cover at the bottom of the rear quarter panel. You may
have to cut into it, if it is still in place. Alternatively you can go
through the rather involved process of removing the entire rear quarter
panel; this is not, however, necessary, and will cause a good deal of
frustration if the valence and bumper screws are rusted.
[clip]
You
can put a piece of flexible black rubber into the opening to cover the
bolts if you like, or you can follow the suggestions in Jagcare III, or
Alex Cannara’s suggestions. Many of these cars have no cover there at
this point in time.

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Merry Christmas all.
Series 2 built late 1978. EFI
i have done the following to stop noisy fuel pump:
New pump.
New change over valve
New return line valves
Drained tanks and cleaned strainers.
Blown out all fuel lines.
New hoses tank to pump.
Checked wiring to change over switch on dash.
On first start it was silent but testing with a tank change the whining commenced again and continues with either tank selected.
I am stumped so any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Jeff

**
Did you do all those things in one go without testing one at a time, Jeff…?

Have you verified that the whine is actually the pump - by stethoscope? Is the pump OEM - and both the same type? Is the insulation around the pump in place - and no metal to metal contact?

The pump is not noiseless, but it usually ‘whirrs’ rather than ‘whines’. And while audible with only the pump running - it should not be heard with the engine running.

Frank
xj6 6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**