[xj] Overheating 1978 XJ6L - what next / reverse flush?

In reply to a message from Dwomby sent Tue 7 Apr 2009:

Certainly looks the part, Dave, although I thought 6 cylinder E
types used a different, shorter, one from XJs, I am not all sure
about this.

My thought was that if the bypass port isn’t properly closed off by
the blanking plate, then too much water misses the radiator and you
get the overheating coupled with a cooler than normal radiator.–
The original message included these comments:

Admittedly it had no hole/jiggle pin but this is what I ordered and
it certainly looked like this:
http://www.motorcarsltd.com/item.wws?
sku=IN102507&mfr=BRITISH&cookieID=1928550112MG0EF8XM&drillid=12&clie
ntid=motorcarsltd.com&clientid=motorcarsltd.com


al mclean '93 XJS 4.0 - '84 4.2 Daimler - '84 DD6
Telford, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from almcl sent Tue 7 Apr 2009:

Thanks, Al.

For what it is worth, the thermostat I removed (a Waxstat brand
labelled 74C which I think may be what is used in carb’ed engine)
looked the same as the one I put in too. I had them both sitting
next to each other in a pan when I tested what temperatures they
each opened at. They both have the blanking plate for the bypass
coolant passage and the same physical dimensions.

However, it was surprsing to me too that I had to drill a hole in
the one I bought. Nevertheless - it has a 1/8 hole now at 12
o’clock position so there must be a small flow through there at all
times.

David–
The original message included these comments:

Certainly looks the part, Dave, although I thought 6 cylinder E
types used a different, shorter, one from XJs, I am not all sure
about this.


David Womby 78 XJ6L 5speed
Mount Dora, Florida, United States
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In reply to a message from Dwomby sent Tue 7 Apr 2009:

Dave:

I add my recession valued .02.

When I lost my engine, the guage was reading right at the 90 C mark.
the weather was very hot and this was a maiden voyage into the hot
weather country, so I was on the alert. sudden;ly, it shot waay
over and smoked and made a weird noise and quit. I coasted off the
freeway. it would not turn over. I let it cool a bit and added a
lot of water. It never ran again, I finaly found a small hose under
the manifold that had split. The point is that the guage reads only
at one point on the engine, and relies on flow to get an overall
value. Thusly the infra red guages are invaluble to get values at
different points and corroborate the fascia guage.

When engines are really hot, one can tell it. there is a lot of
gurgling in the system. Water boils at 212f, unless it is under
pressure, when the point is higher. so, if there is gurgling the
temp is beyopnd thast altered 212. No gurgle, it is less than that.

I guess my next point is whether or not the engine is beyond
optimum temperature or not and the gusge is reading a false
number.A reducnt guage for verification would be interesting to
plumb in mechnanicaly or electricly.

Nest, is that most engines are not drained completely by the
factory drain. The calculations to estimate residual amounts can be
misleading.

Many years ago, kits were sold to flush engine cooling systems.
They consisted of a T fitting to go in a heater line with a garden
water hose connection. The other part was a spout to go into the
radiator filler. Turn on the heater, start the engine adjust the
water hose to get a steady spill over the filler and run til clear.
if you have other than water in the system, it is environmentaly
unfriendly.

A home revers flush somewhat replicates a service once available
along highways in the deseert. Open both hoses, Remove the
thermostat. Clamp in a garden hose with a pressure nozzle, turn on
the water and purge the block under city pressure usually about 50
psi.The desert station used a closed version and introduced a
cleaner in the first stage and then flushed in clear.

I suggest the guage verification as the next logical step as you
have already done most if not all of the usual oheat steps.

Don’t overheat and loose it as did I!

Good luck

Carl–
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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In reply to a message from cadjag sent Wed 8 Apr 2009:

Well I solved the overheating. New radiator, water pump,
thermostat, hoses - no none of those did it

It was the gauge gone bad! Well, either the temperature
gauge or the instrument voltage stabilizer it gets its power
from (this is an S2). I tried a Veglia temporarily wired
up in the engine compartment and while the Smiths gauge in
the dash went right up to ‘H’, the Veglia gauge stayed
steady around 90C. When I put the Veglia in the dash and
took a test drive, it was steady at mid-80s C.

The Smiths went down when the heater was on but instead of
the heater acting as an extra radiator and cooling things
down, I have to believe it was the electrical load of the
heater fans that affected the Smiths gauge. The Veglia
gauge was unaffected by the heater operation.

A bit frustrating but at least I know the cooling system is
in good shape for the next few years although I still can
only get about 11 litres into it and it says the capacity is
18 litres. (I only drained 11 litres out of it today too
even after removing block drain and heater hoses to catch
and measure fluid from them too.) I will run some flushing
chemical through it and reverse flush it just to be safe but
if I can’t get more coolant in it after that, so be it!

Of course, this is my Jaguar we are talking about. So
during the test drive to check out the replacement
temperature gauge, the brake pedal suddenly went loose and
now has a lot of travel before the brakes engage. ARGH!
Another for the to do list!

David–
David Womby 78 XJ6L 5speed
Mount Dora, Florida, United States
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A while back I got one of the Harbor Freight IR thermometers a couple of years ago and its
really been worth it. Point and shoot and it tells the temps.

Have used it on various things and it really helps to see if the gauge is accurate. Might have
been nice in this situation.

Joe AOn 11 Apr 2009 at 17:19, Dwomby wrote:

In reply to a message from cadjag sent Wed 8 Apr 2009:

Well I solved the overheating. New radiator, water pump,
thermostat, hoses - no none of those did it

It was the gauge gone bad! >
David

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In reply to a message from joe@joea.com sent Sat 11 Apr 2009:

Got one of those too, Joe, and it was telling me everything
was OK. I just needed to be sure. A salutory lesson indeed!

david–
The original message included these comments:

A while back I got one of the Harbor Freight IR thermometers a couple of years ago and its
really been worth it. Point and shoot and it tells the temps.
Have used it on various things and it really helps to see if the gauge is accurate. Might have
been nice in this situation.


David Womby 78 XJ6L 5speed
Mount Dora, Florida, United States
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In reply to a message from Dwomby sent Sat 11 Apr 2009:

I feel your pain. After getting the head back on, which for
me the novice was a major feat, all these little niggling
jobs keep coming up, some bigger than others.

Isn’t Jag ownership fun :)–
The original message included these comments:

Of course, this is my Jaguar we are talking about. So
during the test drive to check out the replacement
temperature gauge, the brake pedal suddenly went loose and
now has a lot of travel before the brakes engage. ARGH!
Another for the to do list!


Dave W 85 XJ6 VDP ‘Black Beauty’ 157K - Getting closer !!
Lansdale, PA, United States
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In reply to a message from 1985vdp sent Mon 13 Apr 2009:

Sudden increase in pedal travel? check you haven’t lost the rear
brake circuit has the reservoir level dropped? Check very carefully
before driving any distance!–
The original message included these comments:

temperature gauge, the brake pedal suddenly went loose and
now has a lot of travel before the brakes engage. ARGH!
Another for the to do list!


Keith Turner '79 XJ6 based Aristocat,
Swansea, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Keith Turner sent Mon 13 Apr 2009:

I did a quick check yesterday and the fluid reservoir was full and
the brakes were fine just driving around the driveway. Obviously
needs a thorough investigation when I am next home but no obviuos
drop in fluid level.

David–
The original message included these comments:

Sudden increase in pedal travel? check you haven’t lost the rear
brake circuit has the reservoir level dropped? Check very carefully
before driving any distance!


David Womby 78 XJ6L 5speed
Mount Dora, Florida, United States
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Dwomby wrote:

In reply to a message from Keith Turner sent Mon 13 Apr 2009:

I did a quick check yesterday and the fluid reservoir was full and
the brakes were fine just driving around the driveway. Obviously
needs a thorough investigation when I am next home but no obviuos
drop in fluid level.

‘Brakes were fine just driving around the driveway’ is no confirmation
if the pedal almost travel to the bottom, Dave…

Excessive pedal travel, but still braking, indicates loss of one brake
circuit. While the remaining circuit is enough to stop the car at low
speeds; the brake effect is halved or worse - which is very unsafe. Two
circuits are there to provide something if one of them fails - but one
circuit driving is for emergency only, and with due care…

If the pedal doesn’t come up fully with pumping the pedal, and given no
loss of brake fluid; the most likely cause is a fault in the master
cylinder. However; all calipers should be visually checked for signs of
leakage - even minor leaks here will disable a circuit without short
term depletion of fluid…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)>The original message included these comments:

Sudden increase in pedal travel? check you haven’t lost the rear
brake circuit has the reservoir level dropped? Check very carefully
before driving any distance!

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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Mon 13 Apr 2009:

I wholeheartedly agree, Frank. Don’t worry because this car won’t
be going on the road until the brake issue is resolved - even if I
can’t ficx it and end up flatbedding it to a local repair shop.

David–
The original message included these comments:

‘Brakes were fine just driving around the driveway’ is no confirmation
if the pedal almost travel to the bottom, Dave…
Excessive pedal travel, but still braking, indicates loss of one brake
circuit. While the remaining circuit is enough to stop the car at low
speeds; the brake effect is halved or worse - which is very unsafe. Two


David Womby 78 XJ6L 5speed
Mount Dora, Florida, United States
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Dwomby wrote:

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Mon 13 Apr 2009:

I wholeheartedly agree, Frank. Don’t worry because this car won’t
be going on the road until the brake issue is resolved - even if I
can’t ficx it and end up flatbedding it to a local repair shop.

Attaboy, David - playing games with brakes is definitely not a good
option…

It’s ‘almost certainly’ the master cylinder, but any leak will kill one
circuit. With the engine idling; repeatedly apply the brakes, mayny
times - any leakage will then be very visible - either on the leak site
or by reservoir depletion. No depletion or sign of leaks; master cylinder…

A professional shop will inspect ms for damage and if none will hone and
replace seals - an easy operation. With ms bore wear they may resleeve -
then new seals.
In principle changing ms seals is an easy DIY - damaged is a
professional job. If there is a caliper piston seal leak the remedies
are similar - but a professional shop will likely replace calipers; they
don’t play games with brakes either…

But you can take the ms to them without taking the car along…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)>The original message included these comments:

‘Brakes were fine just driving around the driveway’ is no confirmation
if the pedal almost travel to the bottom, Dave…
Excessive pedal travel, but still braking, indicates loss of one brake
circuit. While the remaining circuit is enough to stop the car at low
speeds; the brake effect is halved or worse - which is very unsafe. Two

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In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Wed 15 Apr 2009:

I didnt change the seals on my MC when it went, I just
bought a new one.

Installation was really easy, couple of bolts, then bleeding
the brakes all the way round.

MC’s can be had for $65 or so at the local store. I priced
rebuild kits for the same cost.–
Dave W 85 XJ6 VDP ‘Black Beauty’ 157K It’s ALIVE!
Lansdale, PA, United States
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