[xj] POS: My 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III

POS: My 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III

The deadline for ordering personalized license plates draws near
and I cannot make up my mind between �XJ6 SPOS� (Stinking Piece of
St) or just plain �XJ6 POS� (Piece of St). Both, of course
describe my 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III pretty well, but, at this
point, I lean toward �XJ6 SPOS�.

Here is the problem. The car starts, runs okay for a bit until it
gets warm, then it chokes, coughs and dies when asked to move.
When warm, it could not pull a sick sleeper off a pay toilet.

The car has been in storage for four years and this appears to be
the source of all things bad.

After taking care of all of the usual stuff (draining the fuel
tanks, changing the fuel filter, filling up with fresh gasoline,
installing a new battery, changing the oil and filter, draining the
other fluids and refilling, and purging the old fuel from the
injectors) the car started right up. Ah, bliss. Everything seemed
fine until I tried to drive it. No deal. (See initial problem
description… the hag is still on the can.)

The first problem encountered was that the alternator belt was
broken. Okay, so the battery voltage was low. So maybe that was
the problem. After the first twenty hours changing all four belts
and installing a new alternator and battery belts, it turns out
this was not the problem. There is a very special place in hell
for the meatheads who cooked up the belt arrangements on the XJ6.
Only a meathead would mount the air pump, power steering pump, air
conditioning compressor and alternator to the engine with a variety
of fine-threaded through-bolts and nylock nuts or lock-washers and
nuts. Especially since none of these mounting bolts are even
remotely available to fitting a wrench. Universally they are
located out of sight and usually only available to touch by a
superbly conditioned contortionist. The belt-adjusting trunnions
and eyebolts are fine, but the all-but-impossible-to-reach mounting
bolts are crap.

Well, since most poor running problems usually start in the
ignition, let us look at that next. Nope, that is not it. At
least replacing the plugs, plug-wires, coil, ballast resistor,
distributor cap and rotor had no effect on running.

Next, since it will only not run after it gets warm, what about the
coolant sensor? To make a long story shorter, replacing the four
coolant sensors (thermotime sensor, coolant sensor, water
temperature gauge sensor and the double-connector sensor at the
rear of the coolant rail) with new components has had no effect on
the problem… the individual components all check out, also.

Perhaps it is a problem with the coolant temperature sensor to ECU
interface. No, that is apparently not it, either. All of the
connectors came apart to reveal that the pins and sockets are clean
and a resistance check of the wiring from the ECU to the coolant
sensor shows less than ten ohms. Ah, so it must be the ECU!
Nope. Replaced the ECU, too.–
1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III
Roswell, GA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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The car has been in storage for four years and this appears to be
the source of all things bad.

Very likely true…

Next, since it will only not run after it gets warm, what about the
coolant sensor? To make a long story shorter, replacing the four
coolant sensors (thermotime sensor, coolant sensor, water
temperature gauge sensor and the double-connector sensor at the
rear of the coolant rail) with new components has had no effect on
the problem… the individual components all check out, also.

All that you mentioned sounds like a seriously lean mixture to me. Just for
the heck of it check the bellows and trunking between the air flow meter and
the throttle body as well as any vacuum connections…especially the larger
ones like the hose under the intake manifold for the AAV.

What’s your fuel pressure?

Cheers
Doug DwyerFrom: “minja1100” minja1100@hotmail.com

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Going back for a minute and re-reading…

When you say “chokes” are you saying that literally or figuratively? If it
is really choking out from too much fuel, try this:

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/efirich.html

I’d be thinking about a fuel pressure regulator…after testing the
pressure, of course.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1988 XJS V12 CoupeFrom: “minja1100” minja1100@hotmail.com

Here is the problem. The car starts, runs okay for a bit until it
gets warm, then it chokes, coughs and dies when asked to move.
When warm, it could not pull a sick sleeper off a pay toilet.

===================================================
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Well, having adopted the approach of simply replacing all the parts you
could see, did you replace 1) the coil? And 2) the GM ignition amplifier
module, both of which are the likely culprits for this behaviour? And
have you cleaned and adjusted the air flap in the air flow meter?
Finally, the choking from overfueling, if that happens to be the
problem, can be caused by faulty connections at the air flow meter; a
proven fix for the overfueling is the installation of a capacitor here
(in the archives). The cost will be about $0.25 .

It is possible that none of the above is the answer. But one of them is,
then a personal license plate that refers to the owner (rather than the
car) might be in order.

Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of minja1100
Sent: September 23, 2006 9:20 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xj] POS: My 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III

POS: My 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III

The deadline for ordering personalized license plates draws near
and I cannot make up my mind between “XJ6 SPOS” (Stinking Piece of
St) or just plain “XJ6 POS” (Piece of St). Both, of course
describe my 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III pretty well, but, at this
point, I lean toward “XJ6 SPOS”.

Here is the problem. The car starts, runs okay for a bit until it
gets warm, then it chokes, coughs and dies when asked to move.
When warm, it could not pull a sick sleeper off a pay toilet.

The car has been in storage for four years and this appears to be
the source of all things bad.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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// please trim quoted text to context only

Sounds like it is running real lean to me. I think I would have started by
checking both for vacuum leaks and the actual fuel pressure before I opened
my wallet. As far as the plates are concerned may I be so bold as to suggest
XJ6 BS. (Big Spender). :slight_smile:

Bob.>From: “minja1100” minja1100@hotmail.com

Next, since it will only not run after it gets warm

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In reply to a message from minja1100 sent Sat 23 Sep 2006:

What I think you are forgetting is the fact that the XK engine came
to life in 1948 or at least, it was on the drawing board.
Back then, there was no A/C, no air pump and no P/S pump to contend
with…only the generator and the water pump.

Before you throw any more money at parts…buy a fuel pressure
gauge, a vacuum gauge, and a compression gauge. Run all these tests
and report back.

SWAGS at this point would be failing spark at operating temps and
or failing FP or flow regulator or a vacuum leak(s) - esp one at
the path 'tween the AFM and throttle body.

Finally, I want you to take an ohm meter and measure from the
coolant rail (where all those sensors are) and the negative
terminal on the battery. You should see 0 ohms. Do this on both a
hot and cold engine.–
The original message included these comments:

nuts. Especially since none of these mounting bolts are even
remotely available to fitting a wrench. Universally they are
located out of sight and usually only available to touch by a
superbly conditioned contortionist. The belt-adjusting trunnions
and eyebolts are fine, but the all-but-impossible-to-reach mounting
bolts are crap.


Ted Macklin/'85 XJ6SIII
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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In reply to a message from minja1100 sent Sat 23 Sep 2006:

… very interesting so far.

I like the suggestions about
… replace 1) the coil? And 2) the GM ignition amplifier
… vacuum leaks
… coolant rail (where all those sensors are) and the
negative terminal on the battery. You should see 0
ohms.

Replaciing the ECU sounds a little extreme at this point,
but now you probably have a spare.

… my two centavos: add a bottle of fuel injector cleaner
to each gas tank. Doing this seemed to improve several
items, including rpm smoothness and also tank switching, on
my XJ6, which was down for a year or so. … the motivation
here is that there are several valves and moving parts that
are susceptible to sticking and being gummed up. … I had a
lot of water in the fuel, which was cured by adding a
methanol gas treatment to the tanks, and also changing the
fuel filter.

… hope that you don’t really get too discouraged, this is
the only worthwhile post I’ve seen recently.–
The original message included these comments:

The car has been in storage for four years and this appears to be
the source of all things bad.


Dave 87 XJ6 SIII
Dallas/Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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I know from personal experience that the first thing I would do is drain and
flush the fuel tanks and replace the filter socks in the tanks.

Then check as suggested the fuel pump and filter.

Doug Grace
84 XJ6
Douglas, AZ===================================================
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“a sick sleeper off a pay toilet” – now that’s a new, amazing analogy! How
about “a slick leper off a greased toilet”? :]

What color are the plugs when she almost dies and is useless for stump pulling?–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Doug Dwyer wrote:

Going back for a minute and re-reading…

When you say “chokes” are you saying that literally or figuratively? If
it is really choking out from too much fuel, try this:

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/efirich.html

I’d be thinking about a fuel pressure regulator…after testing the
pressure, of course.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR
1988 XJS V12 Coupe

From: “minja1100” minja1100@hotmail.com

Here is the problem. The car starts, runs okay for a bit until it
gets warm, then it chokes, coughs and dies when asked to move.
When warm, it could not pull a sick sleeper off a pay toilet.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

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Right, and don’t forget to check the timing and how the advance works with
both vacuum & rpm – at least eyeball that. And, check the grounds at the
rear of the water rail, the one from there to the head and the main one under
that engine to the frame. It’s worth eliminating uissues here by undoing them
all, cleaning/sanding grounding surfaces, oiling them and putting 'em back
nice & tight.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

TMack wrote:

In reply to a message from minja1100 sent Sat 23 Sep 2006:

What I think you are forgetting is the fact that the XK engine came
to life in 1948 or at least, it was on the drawing board.
Back then, there was no A/C, no air pump and no P/S pump to contend
with…only the generator and the water pump.

Before you throw any more money at parts…buy a fuel pressure
gauge, a vacuum gauge, and a compression gauge. Run all these tests
and report back.

SWAGS at this point would be failing spark at operating temps and
or failing FP or flow regulator or a vacuum leak(s) - esp one at
the path 'tween the AFM and throttle body.

Finally, I want you to take an ohm meter and measure from the
coolant rail (where all those sensors are) and the negative
terminal on the battery. You should see 0 ohms. Do this on both a
hot and cold engine.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
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Personally, since you’re in another state, I’d suggest “OLDJAG”, because: a)
that’s what it is, b) that’s what I’m getting for ours in CA, and c) we’ll
guarantee you’ll get it running, so you can show off the plate.

However, we do need your real name here, in order to fulfill c). And save the
‘old’ parts so you can put them back and have new spares.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

minja1100 wrote:

POS: My 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III

The deadline for ordering personalized license plates draws near
and I cannot make up my mind between �XJ6 SPOS� (Stinking Piece of
St) or just plain �XJ6 POS� (Piece of St). Both, of course
describe my 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III pretty well, but, at this
point, I lean toward �XJ6 SPOS�.

Here is the problem. The car starts, runs okay for a bit until it
gets warm, then it chokes, coughs and dies when asked to move.
When warm, it could not pull a sick sleeper off a pay toilet.

The car has been in storage for four years and this appears to be
the source of all things bad.

[clip]

Nope. Replaced the ECU, too.

1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III
Roswell, GA, United States

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In reply to a message from Cannara sent Sun 24 Sep 2006:

His name is Rich according to his post.–
The original message included these comments:

However, we do need your real name here, in order to fulfill c). And save the


Ted Macklin/'85 XJ6SIII
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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In reply to a message from TMack sent Mon 25 Sep 2006:

That may just be his financial status ;^)–
The original message included these comments:

His name is Rich according to his post.


Jim Legge '85 SIII XJ '96 LR Disco
Washington, DC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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Well, he does have a Jag!–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

James Legge wrote:

In reply to a message from TMack sent Mon 25 Sep 2006:

That may just be his financial status ;^)

The original message included these comments:

His name is Rich according to his post.

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