[xj] Power antenna

[GSTompkins]

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Robert,

I think we have talked about this before, but this is a
later update now that I have an operable radio and antenna.
I am pretty well convinced that I have a Series III antenna
unit mounted in the back of the boot between the fuel pumps.
It operates exactly the same as my Series III with the delay
relay etc. This was set up by the PO and I didn’t change any
thing including the mast. My antenna mast is on the outside
top of the left rear fender right at the back. Here are
links to the only two photos I have of the installation.

I am pretty well convinced the entire assembly (mast &
Motor) is Series III except for the bezels and stuff that
mount to the fender. I remember the PO told me the bezel
plus miscellaneous nuts/parts are Series II. I did not
remove any of it but made sure everything worked right, was
tight and lubricated so I can not be 100% sure. I do know it
works every time including the delay. There are no new holes
in the body anywhere to accommodate the Series III setup. It
all just points to the left now instead of to the right. My
fuel pumps are in their original positions and original
mountings. I did replace some old foam rubber with new
because the original(?) had deteriorated. As I said the
antenna motor unit is smack dab in the middle between them.–
The original message included these comments:

I want to try a Series III antenna, but cutting one hole and
having to fill another seems overly risky without knowing
that it will work. Has anyone done that? I looked at
photos once and it seems that a S1 fuel pump would have to
be moved, at the very least.

–
Gordon S. Tompkins ('73 XJ6, '85 XJ6 & '03 S-Type)
Springville, CA, United States
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[GSTompkins]

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Robert,

Received a private email from a Brian Millns with the
following link for a power antenna.

www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=36626

Looks a lot like the old Harada electric antenna that used
to be all over the internet. The text indicates it needs
13.5’’ depth to install the unit. One would have to take the
tail light out to see if there is 13.5’’ available. I did
have mine out to check my installation and recall it being
very tight because of the light and the tank. I wonder if
there is really room for the width and breadth of it as well.

Tomorrow I plan on taking a better photo of my outside mount
and pulling out the spare to see if I can get a photo back
at the motor unit for some clarification for all that may be
interested.

By the way, I did a Google search for Harada electric
antenna and came up with a number of results from $19.95 USD
up. One of the results was a DELCO PART NUMBER 16173058
which looks just like the Moss unit and is apparently a
universal electric antenna used on a lot of older GM cars.
Did a search for that part number and came up with a lot of
other results including this one.

http://www.oem-auto-accessory.com/replacement_antennas.html

It appears to me that if the Moss unit would fit then so
would a number of Harada or Delco units would also fit. In
those searches I also found a late model XJS antenna that
looked the same as the Moss and Delco unit. Because it was
labeled for ‘‘Jaguar’’ it was $125.00 USD, typical.–
The original message included these comments:

I want to try a Series III antenna, but cutting one hole and
having to fill another seems overly risky without knowing
that it will work. Has anyone done that? I looked at
photos once and it seems that a S1 fuel pump would have to
be moved, at the very least.

–
Gordon S. Tompkins ('73 XJ6, '85 XJ6 & '03 S-Type)
Springville, CA, United States
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[Robert_Wilkinson]

In reply to a message from GSTompkins sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Gordon,

Thanks–that’s very helpful. I’ll certainly get hold of a
Series 3 unit and see how she fits. The mast would need to
fit the hardware that’s unique to the S1-2, as you say. It
will be easy to confirm. I had assumed that a S3 aerial
would require the S3-style cutout atop the rear wing.

It was nice getting to feast my eyes again on your beautiful
car! Luckily, this time I got motivated by it and spent a
few hours working on an interior bit. Other times, I simply
get discouraged

:-)–
The original message included these comments:

I am pretty well convinced that I have a Series III antenna
unit mounted in the back of the boot between the fuel pumps.

–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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[GSTompkins]

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Robert,

Did a little more digging and came up with another universal
antenna that appears to be a bit shorter than the Harada
type. it is listed as follows: METRA 44-PW22 FULLY
AUTOMATIC POWER ANTENNA UNIVERSAL

Did another search and came up with more results including
this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Metra-Universal-Power-Antenna-44-PW22/dp/B0002BEUYO

It seems smaller and should fit if the Moss unit will fit. I
guess what I am pointing out is I think it can be done
relatively easily if we start thinking a bit outside the
‘‘Jaguar’’ box. My goodness, that would come under the heading
of blasphemy wouldn’t it Robert!!!

Thanks for the compliment on Old Red, it is greatly
appreciated.–
The original message included these comments:

will be easy to confirm. I had assumed that a S3 aerial
would require the S3-style cutout atop the rear wing.

–
Gordon S. Tompkins ('73 XJ6, '85 XJ6 & '03 S-Type)
Springville, CA, United States
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[Robert_Wilkinson]

In reply to a message from GSTompkins sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Gordon,

Thank you! I notice that the antennas you’ve referenced are
all one-piece. I have a couple of two-piece
(cable-connected) universal units, but they won’t mate to
the Series 1 and 2 hardware that’s required to achieve the
very steep mounting angle. I don’t know it that problem
would remain with these units or not.

But isn’t your setup (from a Series 3) also of the two-piece
variety? That is, the motor mounted in the boot, with a
cable drive going to the mast itself?–
The original message included these comments:

Did a little more digging and came up with another universal
antenna that appears to be a bit shorter than the Harada

–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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[pete091 (pete09)]

In reply to a message from GSTompkins sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Good looking car my friend.
I had a Signal Red Ser2 and on a sunny day with those gorgeous
CSW s sparkling it looked a picture like yours does.

Good info on aerials so far. I ve not found one that looks as tidy
on the RHR guard with its neat fitting.–
Paul (NZ), 86 Ser.3 4.2
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[GSTompkins]

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Robert,

Yes, they are all one piece and really in response to the
Moss link received in a private email from a Brian Millns.

Yes, my installation is a two piece set up with the motor in
the back center of the boot and a cable to the mast just
like the Series III set up.

Paul:

I fell in love with Old Red at first sight and typical of
that condition I look past her faults. She tolerates me as
well so we are happy. Stay tuned and I will post a couple of
more photos tomorrow for a better view of the installation.–
The original message included these comments:

Thank you! I notice that the antennas you’ve referenced are
all one-piece. I have a couple of two-piece
(cable-connected) universal units, but they won’t mate to
the Series 1 and 2 hardware that’s required to achieve the
very steep mounting angle. I don’t know it that problem
would remain with these units or not.
But isn’t your setup (from a Series 3) also of the two-piece
variety? That is, the motor mounted in the boot, with a
cable drive going to the mast itself?

–
Gordon S. Tompkins ('73 XJ6, '85 XJ6 & '03 S-Type)
Springville, CA, United States
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[Frank_Andersen]

Bill Thom wrote:

Alyn, there’s power; I can hear the motor running.

In which case the likely problem is a broken driveline, Bill…

The driveline is crimped on to the mast, and principally the mast and
line is replaced as a unit. Tthe driveline comes in two versions;
smooth, working by being ‘stiff’ - and toothed, driven by a cogwheel.
They are not interchangeable, and for the Jaguar application the
driveline is much longer than the usual ones coming with standard
replacement masts - because of the ‘remote’ motor position and
intermediate conduit…

…which is a ‘Bowden’ flexible, and unique to this remote set-up. The
smooth drive-line can be replaced with a fishing line, 2 mm or
thereabouts, but I have no source of the serrated type - with some care
either can be recrimped on to the mast you have…

The one-piece motors referred to simply will not fit - unless there is a
miniature edition somewhere out there. I cut the matter short and
installed an OEM Jaguar version, the last available in NZ at the time -
costing the very devil. However, I experimented with dismantling a cheap
one-piece unit. ‘Splitting’ it to splice in the specific Jaguar
conduit, which was luckily undamaged, between the motor and the antenna
well. It had the smooth driveline which I ‘extended’. This worked well
enough out of the car, but for obvious reasons I did not install it…

Instead of searching for a compete unit; you may be able to source a
mast, Jaguar ‘series’ specific (Internet), with driveline, which would
solve the problem - if the broken driveline and/or mast deformation is
the problem…

But the first thing is to remove the unit, very carefully; the conduit
is easily damaged, to assess what is wrong. But if the motor is running;
the driveline is the best bet…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ> Where in the world can

you buy them new? Neither I nor the car stereo shop where I got one 3 or 4
years ago can find a source.

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[GSTompkins]

In reply to a message from GSTompkins sent Fri 12 Nov 2010:

Robert,

First off, I agree with Frank, I don’t think those one piece
electric antennas will fit regardless of make on a Series I.
There simply isn’t enough room behind the tail light in
between the tank. He may be right it possibly could be
adapted for a remote mounting like the original Series III.
Might be an interesting ‘‘Imageneering’’ project.

Secondly, here are a couple disclaimers. I didn’t install
the electric antenna in Old Red, it was done by the PO. I
don’t think I would have done it the way he did but you
can’t argue with the fact it works and works properly. As
usual the guy did some things really well on Old Red and
some things sort of slap dash. The chrome retaining nut on
the mast was put in with a pair of pliers and is marked by
the teeth of the pliers. As soon as I find another I will
rectify that. Also, my steel trap memory has again been
certified as slightly rusty.

Here are a couple of photos of the outside with the antenna
down and also with the antenna up. You may note the slight
graceful arc in the mast towards the rear. I believe that
happened while listening to the radio during a few ‘‘high
speed’’ touring runs.

This third photo is a panorama of the back end of the wheel
well showing the pumps and antenna motor. Keep in mind that
you are looking aft and the pump on your left is the RH pump
and the one on your right is the LH pump. Here is where the
memory part comes in, the antenna motor is not smack dab in
the middle but is actually more to the right side. It is
secured in place by a bunch of cable ties to a bracket
behind it. Again, not the way I would have done it but it
works and works properly. There is a lot to be said for the
flexibility in the system. The flex cable to the mast
disappears into a hole he apparently cut into the sheet
metal just before the LH pump. The light was bad so I
apologize for the quality of the photo. I have provided
links to the three photos that I stitched together to make
the panorama.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have. I have all
sorts of answers, some of them actually match up to the
questions asked. If the links don’t completely show up copy
and paste all the text into your browser.–
The original message included these comments:

Robert,
Yes, they are all one piece and really in response to the
Moss link received in a private email from a Brian Millns.
Yes, my installation is a two piece set up with the motor in
the back center of the boot and a cable to the mast just
like the Series III set up.
Paul:
I fell in love with Old Red at first sight and typical of
that condition I look past her faults. She tolerates me as
well so we are happy. Stay tuned and I will post a couple of
more photos tomorrow for a better view of the installation.

–
Gordon S. Tompkins ('73 XJ6, '85 XJ6 & '03 S-Type)
Springville, CA, United States
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[Robert_Wilkinson]

In reply to a message from GSTompkins sent Sat 13 Nov 2010:

Gordon,

Many thanks for the photos. I wonder if someone can comment
on whether the motor looks like a S3 motor or not.

The retaining nut for the aerial itself (the one you want to
replace) doesn’t look at all like mine. Mine is flat on top
and visibly only about an eighth of an inch thick. The
angled chrome piece isn’t the same either, and it seems to
lack a rubber gasket. There are, however, variants of the
S1/2 aerial mounting hardware. My aerial is manual; I’ve
never seen the electric version except in the parts book and
in catalogs. John Testrake has knowledge about at least
some of the mounts; hopefully he’ll give us a primer.–
The original message included these comments:

some things sort of slap dash. The chrome retaining nut on
the mast was put in with a pair of pliers and is marked by
the teeth of the pliers. As soon as I find another I will

–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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[GSTompkins]

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Sat 13 Nov 2010:

Robert,

If the installation of the antenna mast follows some of the
other things that the PO accomplished it would not surprise
me that the bezel and nut for the mast may not be 100%
Jaguar or from the same model car. I agree that there should
be a rubber gasket or some material between the bezel and
the body. When I locate a replacement nut I plan on making a
gasket of some type to finish it off. Right now it is
working and I am not disturbing it until I find a nice
chrome nut.

Maybe I will get in touch with David Boger because I need
the flexible rubber boot that is in between the cold air
intake trumpet and the filter box on the carburetors. Been
meaning to hit our local wrecking yards to see if something
off of some Detroit iron or rice burner might be adapted.
It’s on my ‘‘Roundtuit’’ list.

Yes, I would hope John Testrake has some insight on the
motor and shares the info with us.–
The original message included these comments:

on whether the motor looks like a S3 motor or not.
The retaining nut for the aerial itself (the one you want to
replace) doesn’t look at all like mine. Mine is flat on top
and visibly only about an eighth of an inch thick. The
angled chrome piece isn’t the same either, and it seems to
lack a rubber gasket. There are, however, variants of the
S1/2 aerial mounting hardware. My aerial is manual; I’ve
never seen the electric version except in the parts book and
in catalogs. John Testrake has knowledge about at least
some of the mounts; hopefully he’ll give us a primer.

–
Gordon S. Tompkins ('73 XJ6, '85 XJ6 & '03 S-Type)
Springville, CA, United States
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[Frank_Andersen]

Robert Wilkinson wrote:

In reply to a message from GSTompkins sent Sat 13 Nov 2010:

Gordon,

Many thanks for the photos. I wonder if someone can comment
on whether the motor looks like a S3 motor or not.

The retaining nut for the aerial itself (the one you want to
replace) doesn’t look at all like mine. Mine is flat on top
and visibly only about an eighth of an inch thick.

This is just and end-stop, Bob…

…to stop the motor and prevent the aerial from disappearing into the
well when retracting. It must be removed to extract the aerial through
the wing mount…

Generally; the mounting finisher depends a bit on where on the wing the
antenna is fixed and the wing shape at that point. In this case,
pictured, the antenna is fixed further back, and possibly more outwards
than standard for the SIII. This is no consequence, the trim piece is an
aftermarket option; to be chosen at will/convenience/fit. This applies
equally to manual and electric set-ups…

…as does motor types fitted. I cannot vouch for Jaguar using the same
manufacturer trhough out - and in any case; at the time there were
aftermarket choises available. Either as replacements or installation
where electric antennas were optional - so what you have got is
anybody’s guess.

While all the electic antennas suitable for the ‘Series’ follows the
same mechanical pattern, ie the extension conduit, there are subtle
differences in the wiring lay-out. The main difference being that an
external relay was used on the Jaguar OEM, as far as I know aftrmarket
units sometimes have the relay integrated with the motor…

That has only some relevance in wiring details in the boot; the original
wiring loom, and principle function for antenna electrics is otherwise
the same. The manual antenna offers more choice in exact location as
less room inside the wing, front or rear or wherever. The electric is a
bit more critical - to ensure a smooth passage of the conduit from the
motor to the antenna well. And a freely mounted manual mounting hole may
conceiveably cause a problem…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)> The

angled chrome piece isn’t the same either, and it seems to
lack a rubber gasket. There are, however, variants of the
S1/2 aerial mounting hardware. My aerial is manual; I’ve
never seen the electric version except in the parts book and
in catalogs. John Testrake has knowledge about at least
some of the mounts; hopefully he’ll give us a primer.

The original message included these comments:

some things sort of slap dash. The chrome retaining nut on
the mast was put in with a pair of pliers and is marked by
the teeth of the pliers. As soon as I find another I will

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[henryksz (Henry Keddie)]

My 1989 sovereign antenna was stuck in the up position, could hear motor running but no antenna movement.
Pulled it off the car. Was broken and found the belt (never knew Pirelli made small belts like that) for the workings was broken. . Obvious corrosion inside assembly shows that water leakage was the originating cause of failure
Ordered on-line an antenna that was for a Mercedes for $30. It fit and works, however the printed electrics controller board burned out. Took the old one from the original antenna and connected wiring and it works, not failed after 3 months anyways.
So not a bad fix, all wiring is hidden behind trunk liner so all is Okay with me.

[Frank_Andersen]

The 89, unless a V12, is the xj40, Henry, which may use a different antenna arrangement - without the extension conduit on the ‘Series’ car. So was your antenna and motor in one piece…?

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**

[henryksz (Henry Keddie)]

Yes, all one piece, . When replacement part electronics burned out right away spliced in the old controller which was part of the old assembly and all worked OK and when looking at it it looks original.

[Frank_Andersen]

It may even be original, Henry - car manufacturers do not usually make antennas, they may buy them from the same source…

But the xj40 used a ‘one-piece’ set up motor and mast together. The ‘series’ cars had no room for the one-piece unit in the wings, no option. The xj40 had the tank in the luggage compartment, leaving plenty of space for the antenna in the wings…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)
**