Hello Chaps,
Hello Chaps,
Chirs and Manfred -
Please help me understand what is going on here. Getting my Jag (any Jag?)
to idle smoothly is the “Holy Grail” for Jag lovers.
- What is your exhaust back pressure with the bad CAT??
- What is the “normal” exhaust back pressure?? Has anyone measured it at
idle and at maybe 60mph?? - The 20 degree exhaust cam advance, how did you “measure” 20 degrees?
- Did the 20 degree exhaust advance help the idle, or was it something
else, maybe the??? - Is it only your exhaust cam that is changed, ie, your intake cam is set
at “the notch”??? - I have ADVANCED my exhaust cam and RETARDED the intake cam. (84S3) How
many degrees, I don’t know, can only say that they are both off by 1/2 the
width of the cam setting notch. That is probably 3/32 inches at the notch
referenced to the proper 90 degree notch setting. - The theory I was told is that this reduces the cams overlap, this reduces
the amount of exhaust gas left in the cylinder, this results in smoother
idle. If you have every played with an EGR valve you have seen this
effect, that is why an EGR is vacuum controlled so it is closed at idle. - So you ask, "Well Tom, is your idle better with this change??) Yes, but
still not baby smooth. It idles at 600 rpm per its tach. AND is smooth
only with the idle mixture screw (on the AFM) turned fully down.
Torque/acceleration seems the same as before. But please note, I did this
when I re-did the head gasket and the vlves were ground. So, there are too
many variables that may be at work to clearly show cause and effect. I ALSO
advanced the ignition timing to by 4 degrees to 21 BTDC. I think I’ll move
it back to 17 and see what the idle does. - Inquiring minds want to know Pull me a warm Guinness please.
Cherio - Tom
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris K linkos@go.com
Subject: Re: [xj] rough idle tuningMy prayers go out to those who were involved in the terrorist incident.
May a wish be granted to the less fortunate involved with this horrible
event…(Issue: Rough engine idle w. backpressure)
(My result after this process: 99% improvement in idle and reduced engine
noise at higher speeds)(Corrective measure taken: Advanced exhaust cam roughtly 20 degrees)
Hi Manfred,
Well, the idea you presented to me was very interesting indeed. I have
looked it over what you have said very carefully but cannot draw the same
conclusion of the cams being off time to the crank. Actually, I was the one
who did the installation & removal of the old head =).
Here is my process, maybe you can catch something in it that I did not.(Start, old head is off)
(during the entire time, I did not check the harmonic balancer, Engine ran
before head removal. This is the reason I thought about this letter, as I
may have made a flaw, but I ruled that out. Timing was checked and at 17
degrees BTDC, erratic however due to serious head damage and erratic idle)The Process, starting with old head off.
1- Checked to make sure that cylinder #6 (front of engine, cylinder
closest to the cam gears) at TDC, distributor is set at #6 firing.
(I did not change the distributor setting anytime before or until after
engine was assembled completely)2- Set both intake & exhaust cams to notch on top, bottom of notch
perpendicular to the cam housing sides.3- Placed on the head, removed the clips from the cam adjustment plates
in order to re-synchronize the cams.4- Adjusted the plates to match both cams with the crank, so timing was
just right, reasonably equal tension on both sides of chain. Tightened &
locked the tensioner leaving a small amount of flex in the chain.5- Re-assembled engine
(did not touch the distributor setting)6- Cranked engine over, it fired up, ran better but still like junk.
Re-checked cams, both aligned pretty much exactly, intake was off a little
bit, not significant to performance, maybe half a millimeter advance.7- Checked timing, it was EXACTLY at 17degrees BTDC, someone had put a
white mark on the harmonic balancer and it matched up perfectly on 17.8- Engine runs like crap at less than or equal to 820rpm… shudders,
stalls, has backpressure but will not backfire. I check EVERYTHING again.
Timing, to my knowledge is perfect. Jag manual says it should be perfect.
Compression perfect, ignition perfect, fuel perfect, air flow acceptable.9- Change a gob of parts that were tested or new, but to no avail.
Re-check the valve clearances 2 times more, timing, fuel, etc… I get
REALLY irritated…10- Old school textbook says exhaust is retarded resulting in
backpressure. Frustrated and having another spare engine, gave it a shot
and advanced the exhaust several degrees.9- I am totally perplexed, it worked! My cams are out of alignment…
Totally 100% out of alignment… But it worked and the improvement is
incredible! There is an occasional packpressure, this I figure is probably
due to my O2 sensor, which was recently changed but probably dead because my
old head a VERY rich exhaust due to 3 1/2 leaking exhaust valves.9.5- Confused, I pulled out the exhaust cam and compared it to my spare
exhaust cam (being sure to mark the cam position!) I do not see any
difference whatsoever, they seem identical…10- Changed the O2 sensor. Engine is 99% perfect! Except for one noisy
intake tappet (shim must have been cut improperly, sound comes and goes) and
my new torque converter is probably off-balance (resulting in a very
constant slight shake), the engine runs great! Hacked the old O2 sensor
open (it was bad anyways) and found it was fouled. The old head had run
very rich on acceleration destroying my front cat and the O2 sensor (I pray
not my rear cat as well). I will replace BOTH cats for smog this month…
(UGH…THE COST!).11- Test drive! Took her out to the freeway and for a neighborhood
cruise. Runs quiet with much improved gas mileage and PLENTY of power.
Runs, feels & sounds like an 85 Jag should.12- Conclusion. Front cat is bad, should get better top speed with a new
one. O2 sensor was dead from previous head emissions. JAG MANUAL WAS
APPARENTLY INCORRECT… Beats me, I really did trust it, I was not out to
prove anything, it just did not work. It was a real pain in the behind
trying to figure out why it was wrong, I assumed it was correct.After analyzing this letter I realized that it cannot be a problem with
the harmonic balancer, even though I did not check it as I re-assembled the
engine. This is because the old engine had been totally re-built recently,
cheap intake oil seals were installed resulting in chanmber fouling and
ruined valves. The timing was correct to begin with and was the same
afterwards. Cam & crank sync was at least double or triple checked.I am sure there is a reasonable explanation for this strange event. I am
still pondering it because there is still (very rare) an occasional
backpressure at very low idle, it cannot be the springs or the valves
though.
My hypothesis is that this backpressure is due to noise in the ECU
communication lines. I am making a custom engine harness to shield the
sensors, cables and improving ground connections to various engine parts. I
am adding a larger value electrolytic capacitor to the air flow meter to
improve signal clarity. I shall report the results.Thank you very much for the harmonic balance key thought. That is a great
issue to keep in mind for those who re-build their engines. There is also
the second woodruff key as I recall, for the crank gear that I was thinking
about.Chris
Black 85 XJ6 “Michi Korosu”
- -----Original Message-----
From: "M. Gottschalch"megott@ufl.edu
To: "Chris K"linkos@go.com
Date: Tue Sep 11 16:07:59 PDT 2001
Subject: Re: [xj] rough idle tuningChris,
Who put the head on? Are you sure that when the head was put on, the
timing of BOTH the intake and exhaust cams was set in the correct way.
If you got so much improvement by advancing the exhaust cam, I would
think that the cam timing was somehow screwed up when it was first set.
It might be a good idea to check where the timing actually is set for
both the intake and the exhaust. As a first step check if the TDC mark
on the harmonic balancer is actually in the correct place. Balancers
have been known to go bad, and also the keys that hold the balancers
have been known to shear. This would cause the timing marks to be off
and would upset the setting of the cams. Check by using a stop in the
sparkplug hole. Mark where the pointer sits when the piston touches the
stop, then turn the crank in the opposite direction and mark where the
pointer sits when the piston comes up on the stop again from the
opposite direction. 1/2 way between the two marks is TDC. I am thinking
that you may find that the TDC as measured will not be the mark on the
damper. If the damper mark was off and was used then obviously the cam
timing will be off. Someone on the engine list a while back had a
problem with the key being sheared and was not able to set the spark
timing. It took a while before the problem was found to be the key. It’s
worth taking the time to check.–
Manfred
63 E FHC
86 XJ6
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