How come noone swaps this engine in place of the v12?
couldnt you just use the parts from a XJ8 for the swap or am
I off?–
dantheman199
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dantheman199,
Well, in my case I have two V12 equipped Jaguars(1990 XJ-S convertible
and 1990 X12 Vanden Plas) and I purchased them specifically for the V12. I
also have a spare HE V12 engine in my garage just in case I need it, but I
suspect I will never need to replace either engine.
The most common question I am asked about my Jaguars at car shows and in
town is “Does it have the V12?”. I enjoy saying “Well, yes it does.” and
then showing them the amazing V12 engine bay.
I have no doubt that putting an 4L engine from an XJ8 into an XJ-S is
possible, and that someone has probably done it. However the cost and
complexity of doing such a project would keep it off of my list. Plus I am
very happy to drive my V12 equipped Jaguars.
Regards,
Paul M. Novak
1990 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1987 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type FHC
1957 MK VIII Saloon
Ramona, CA
P.M.Novak7@gmail.com-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of dantheman199
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:12 AM
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xj-s] 4L V8 swap?
How come noone swaps this engine in place of the v12?
couldnt you just use the parts from a XJ8 for the swap or am I off?
dantheman199
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In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Sun 16 Mar 2014:
I feel similar to Paul…what’s the point of the XJS without the
12? If you like the styling, but not the hobby of keeping the 12
running, then there are the later 6 versions that are more
reliable. If I wanted an 8, I’d look for an XK8.–
John. '95 XJS 6.0L convertible. Southlake, TX
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Honestly IMHO there is no business case for doing this. The cars that got
converted in the 80s and 90s were in general older 70s and early 80s cars.
The conversions and the cottage industry that surrounds it grew up long
before the Jaguar AJV8 ever existed and used the small block chevy V8 in
general because it was readily available, easy to work with and had a huge
aftermarket parts support system in place. .
Nowadays there is no reason to look at doing a conversion like this. Most of
the cars that were candidates for conversion are already done, the rest are
in collectors hands who would never commit the blasphemy of ripping out the
V12. Its certainly possible, but it would be quite an engineering project
given you would have to carry over all the engine computers for the modern
V8 into a not so modern form factor. It would be far cheaper and easier to
rebuild a blown 5.3 or 6.0 than to try this exchange.
So while you could do it, why would you do it?
Daniel
1994 XJ12
1995 XJS 4.0
How come noone swaps this engine in place of the v12?
couldnt you just use the parts from a XJ8 for the swap or am I off?–
dantheman199
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In reply to a message from dantheman199 sent Sun 16 Mar 2014:
dan the man:
as far as getting the engine to fit in the space
provided…you would have to fabricate the mounting points
for the engine and tranny as well as having a prop shaft and
exhaust made up for it.the really complicated part of your
proposed swap would be adapting the electrics from the doner
car to the xjs. that sort of install is no small
chore.however,by installing a 4litre into your xjs from
another jag you really couldn’t call it a ‘‘lump’’ as your car
would still be jag powered and as the 4litre is lighter your
car would handle and stop better due to the lower mass.
this would also require a good alignment shop with a tech
that understands the dynamics of the swap and the ability to
compensate the alignment parameters properly(spring rates
and damper changes)to preserve the '‘feel’'of the car and it’s
handling characteristics.
I guess it all boils down to
time-money-research-persistance and patience.just like
putting any other hot-rod build on the road,you would be
doing so from scratch for the most part but it can be
done…just a lot of work but your car would be unique :-> !
enjoy the day!
=dok=–
v12fun=thewytchdoktor/94 xjs 6 litre a.k.a.dok -)
Winchester Virginia, United States
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In reply to a message from dantheman199 sent Sun 16 Mar 2014:
I think the terminology for putting a GM V8 in ‘‘Lumping it’’
and whenever people ask why I didn’t do it when my car
needed an engine, I have to explain that if I wanted a V8
I’d have bought a Commodore (Local GM product).
But putting a Jag V8 makes some sense particularly with its
gearbox as the V12 + GM400 and 2.88 Diff is pretty much
beaten off the traffic lights by a 3 cylinder Japanese
sewing machine these days. But me thinks the ancient rusty
chassis, rear drive cradle and rubber mounts would last 10
minutes with all that modern power. Would be fun for 9.9
Minutes though.–
1985 XJS V12 HE TWR (Black Betty) - www.bryansplace.net
Gold Coast Qld, Australia
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In reply to a message from dantheman199 sent Sun 16 Mar 2014:
I always find the term lump amusing, considering any engine
swapped into a Jaguar engine bay will be at least 100lbs
lighter than that V12 pinnacle of engineering. Lump tends to
suggest extra weight, which there is not.
I also find terms like blasphemy amusing when people refer
to putting GM V8’s into Jaguars, when all the V12 powered
vehicles bar the first few used GM transmissions. It’s funny
to note that those who find it blasphemous are also the
first to reach for non Jaguar parts when repairing ignition
systems etc, making their super pure Jaguar less so.
British auto manufacturers have used US sourced
transmissions and engines since the 60’s, it’s a good
combination.
As for Jaguar’s V8, it may not fit into an XJ, it is very
wide across the cam covers.
Lose the arrogance and enjoy the cars.–
Andrew. XJS project. http://jaguarxjsresto.blogspot.com.au/
Canberra, Australia
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In reply to a message from TyphoonXJS sent Mon 17 Mar 2014:
In addition, most of the XJS’s have a GM power steering pump,
a GM A/C compressor, a GM ignition module in the Lucas CEI
ignition amp, the 6.0 uses a GM 4L80E tranny, and several
other items sourced from GM. Since the injected GM LT1 SBC’s
(let alone the newer generation LSX’s) will outperform in
power, reliability, and efficiency, any of the OEM Jaguar
engines used in the XJS, which are really the lumps?–
lockheed 92 XJS Cpe/97 LT1 Miami FL/ 96 XJS Cv 4.0 Austin TX
Austin, TX, United States
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Has anyone mentioned the power steering servo (aka vacuum booster)? Mine’s the same as Chevy of the same period.
BTW, when I first encountered the term “lump” in this context I researched it and came up with “lump in the road.” As in “just another.” IOW, that’s what you get when you trade out the now archaic Jaguar V12 for an American V8.
Ed Sowell
'76 XJ-S coupe, red
http://www.efsowell.us
In addition, most of the XJS’s have a GM power steering pump, a GM A/C
compressor, a GM ignition module in the Lucas CEI ignition amp, the 6.0 uses
a GM 4L80E tranny, and several other items sourced from GM. Since the
injected GM LT1 SBC’s (let alone the newer generation LSX’s) will outperform
in power, reliability, and efficiency, any of the OEM Jaguar engines used in
the XJS, which are really the lumps?
// please trim quoted text to context only
I have heard that the term “LUMP” comes from the phrase “Less Upkeep More
Power”. So it’s really not a derogatory term, or at least I don’t think it
is.
I prefer to keep my six Jaguars original and authentic, using Jaguar
replacement parts when they are available. My primary reason for doing this
is because Jaguars are my hobby, I have no training as a professional
mechanic, yet I have done pretty all the work on all six of my Jaguars over
the past 14 years. I have an extensive OEM Jaguar technical library and I
find that I can operate and maintain these vehicles (including engine
changes, transmission changes, etc.) myself if I keep them original and
authentic. I have made a few minor modifications (like converting the rear
windows in our 1990 XJ-S convertible to from automatic operation to
switches) to my Jaguars for reliability and maintainability reasons, but
putting an engine from completely different model with all the wiring and
electronic modifications is well outside my range of abilities. I wouldn’t
even know where to begin, or what significant problems I would run into. I
have a feeling that there are many major issues trying to put an XJ8 engine
into an XJ-S. If one of my two Jaguar HE V12 engines dies, I already have
a spare one (that cost me two cases of Guinness) sitting in my garage.
Regards,
Paul M. Novak
1990 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1987 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type FHC
1957 MK VIII Saloon
Ramona, CA
P.M.Novak7@gmail.com-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Ed Sowell
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:56 PM
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj-s] 4L V8 swap?
Has anyone mentioned the power steering servo (aka vacuum booster)? Mine’s
the same as Chevy of the same period.
BTW, when I first encountered the term “lump” in this context I researched
it and came up with “lump in the road.” As in “just another.” IOW, that’s
what you get when you trade out the now archaic Jaguar V12 for an American
V8.
Ed Sowell
'76 XJ-S coupe, red
http://www.efsowell.us
In addition, most of the XJS’s have a GM power steering pump, a GM A/C
compressor, a GM ignition module in the Lucas CEI ignition amp, the
6.0 uses a GM 4L80E tranny, and several other items sourced from GM.
Since the injected GM LT1 SBC’s (let alone the newer generation LSX’s)
will outperform in power, reliability, and efficiency, any of the OEM
Jaguar engines used in the XJS, which are really the lumps?
// please trim quoted text to context only
We are kind of glossing over the main reason to keep the V12, the smooth
power delivery. I have yet to meet an American V8 that is as smooth, the
perfect inherent balance of the V12 makes for a jet turbine like feel to the
engine. I have twin 350s in my boat, they are brutal, and powerful, but far
from smooth. It works in the Jaguar XJS, which is at heart a grand touring
car and not a sports car.
The AJV8 for a V8 actually is very well balanced and damped, it is among the
smoothest V8s I have driven (in an S Type and XJ8 rental cars, I have never
owned one).
I like the way my XJ12 feels and delivers power and I would not want to
change that. Granted I have a V12 in saloon body and a 6 in my XJS, but if
the engine blew up in my XJ12 and at 99,000 miles its an inevitable reality
that at some point I am in for something major, I would still choose to
rebuild it. Call me a purist I guess, it doesn’t really bother me too much
if someone wants to swap out their V12 and go the “easy” route, but I will
take the greater rewards of the “hard” route in this case.
Daniel
1994 XJ12
1995 XJS 4.0-----Original Message-----
From: Paul M. Novak
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 8:39 PM
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj-s] 4L V8 swap?
I have heard that the term “LUMP” comes from the phrase “Less Upkeep More
Power”. So it’s really not a derogatory term, or at least I don’t think it
is.
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In reply to a message from Daniel Arsenault sent Tue 18 Mar 2014:
As I get older I seem to prefer to keep my hobby cars
stock. I have an 87 all original XJS with 54k miles and a
64 Dodge D100 with a 318 poly and a push button 3 speed
auto. I like the experience and feel of older cars vs.
newer. There is nothing like the XJS as it is a very unique
car from the V12 engine, the bold styling, the smooth but
sporty suspension and all of it quirks. Yes the XJS has a
lot of short comings but to me that is the enjoyment of the
car. I would never use this car as a daily driver but it is
a fun hobby. I think a V8 swap would take away a lot of the
uniqueness of the car but I don’t look down on V8 swaps.–
1987 Jaguar XJS V12
Escondido, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from The Zar sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:
Took the wife’s XJ8 out last night with the 4.2 L eight. It is
very nice…but I still like my 12 better. Nothing sounds quite
like a well tuned eight…but nothing runs like the 12 cyl!–
John. '95 XJS 6.0L convertible. Southlake, TX
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In reply to a message from The Zar sent Wed 19 Mar 2014:
Thank you Zar, it is definitely no longer a Jaguar, let alone an XJ-
S with the Lumped engine installed. Might as well give to someone
who wants to fight and learn the V12 engine. Best, JW.–
The original message included these comments:
stock. I have an 87 all original XJS with 54k miles and a
64 Dodge D100 with a 318 poly and a push button 3 speed
newer. There is nothing like the XJS as it is a very unique
car from the V12 engine, the bold styling, the smooth but
sporty suspension and all of it quirks. Yes the XJS has a
lot of short comings but to me that is the enjoyment of the
a fun hobby. I think a V8 swap would take away a lot of the
1987 Jaguar XJS V12
–
86XJ-S cpes,Ballet I,Act II,Lutz stg.1, AAV service
Fresno, CA, United States
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In reply to a message from CJ95 sent Thu 20 Mar 2014:
''Took the wife's XJ8 out last night with the 4.2 L eight. It is
very nice...but I still like my 12 better. Nothing sounds quite
like a well tuned eight...but nothing runs like the 12 cyl!''
or sounds like it!
after selling my 66 'bird with a well massaged 427 side
oiler I bought nigel.while he’s no where near the power
output of the ford engine it has a personality,sound and
refinement that the big block v8 just cannot match.when the
6litre heart gives up the ghost…i will most certainly give
it a rebuild(and -up-a little)and stick nigel’s heart right
back in.admittedly,v12s aren’t for everyone(they can be a
bit ‘‘persnickety’’)but for me,it’s really no problem at all.i
am having a blast with mine…quirks and all.compared to the
appliances in manufacture today,the v12 is a very simple and
straight forward layout.heck,with the condition i’m
in…nigel will probably outlast me 
=dok=–
v12fun=thewytchdoktor/94 xjs 6 litre a.k.a.dok -)
Winchester Virginia, United States
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In reply to a message from TyphoonXJS sent Mon 17 Mar 2014:
I think the lump vision comes from removing the Aluminium V12
and putting in a Cast Iron V8 - and without the actual weights
I’d think a cast iron V8 would be heavier?–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from dantheman199 sent Sun 16 Mar 2014:
I always find the term lump amusing, considering any engine
swapped into a Jaguar engine bay will be at least 100lbs
lighter than that V12 pinnacle of engineering. Lump tends to
–
1985 XJS V12 HE TWR (Black Betty) - www.bryansplace.net
Gold Coast Qld, Australia
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In reply to a message from Bryan Burgess sent Fri 28 Mar 2014:
‘‘I’d think a cast iron V8 would be heavier?’’
The SBC (Injected LT1 with aluminum heads) is some 300 1bs
lighter than the V12. The cast iron headed SBC is probably
in the neighborhood of 250 lbs lighter than the V12. The
LS series (all aluminum) SBC is probably 350 lbs or so
lighter than the V12. Add in the fact that the 700-R4/4l60E
trannies are much lighter and more efficient than the heavy
inefficient TH 400. Taking all that weight off the car and
the front end (and with greater HP and efficiency) greatly
improves the handling and the performance.–
lockheed 92 XJS Cpe/97 LT1 Miami FL/ 96 XJS Cv 4.0 Austin TX
Austin, TX, United States
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