[xj-s] A/C vent temps

Kirby’s readings match everything I have read abut what to expect. Vent
temperature of a properly functioning A/C system should be mid to high
thirties � Fahrenheit.

I wonder if the type /quality of the thermometer is a factor. For example,
is an oven / refrigerator thermometer going to give an accurate reading.

I wonder if the type /quality of the thermometer is a factor. For example,
is an oven / refrigerator thermometer going to give an accurate reading.

That is a good point…I used my infra red thermometer, I have never
tested or calibrated it, I have no idea of it’s accuracy, I did test again
this evening…47� (thanks Kirby) @ 3000RPM second gear about 76� ambient.
I will say again that in a system in good shape, you CAN achieve good
results with R-134 like I have in the '83. It may not be as good, but it
gets the job done.
All my mechanic friends don’t want to do conversions anymore, they like the
flammable subs, like Duracool, etc. They are propane, butane, etc. mixes.
Better than R-12 I’ve heard, but no 1st hand knowledge.

David Buchner
Atlanta, GA
'83 XJ-S TWR(kinda) 5.3
'94 XJ-S 6.0 coupe

I just switched back to r-12 after going to rs-276 & not getting the temps
I wanted.
The vent temps before I switched back where ~52 to 48 degs now I’m down to
~40 degs & still working on it but before there was hardly any condensation

dripping from under the car, to the point that I thought the drains were
clogged again but after switching back it pours out.

The center vent temps did hit the mid 30’s but the sight glass still looked
like it wasn’t FULL of fluid so I pumped in some more gas then the temp
rose to the low 40’s
to maybe 50. So I figure that I over filled , bleed some off but the sight
glass seems to have a void & fluid, rev the engine up & it appears to be
full of fluid. From what I’m gathering here the sight glass should be full
of fluid with NO bubbles. When I get that I’m seeing higher center vent
temps Higher hi side pressure 230+ , low side 20 - 25 psi @ 1200rpm but
that might be because the temp in front of the condensor was 108F. This was
done with the outside temp ~85 degs F close to 100 humidity.

This may sound dumb [ 40 grit armor suit on :slight_smile: ] should I keep filling
the system until the sight glass is full of fluid ? Should it be full of
fluid at say 1200 - 1500 rpm ?
Would the fact that the air temp in front of the condensor was 108F effect
the fluid level in the sight glass & the temp at the center vent ?

The system works well, better than the replacement gas. It will bring down
the interior to 65 set to auto it shuts off, so I guess I’m getting there.

TIA. but I’m keeping the suit on for a while.

bob

Peter,

I bought a little Cooper probe, 0 to 220 F, at Harbor Freight for $4.95.
Tested in
in melting ice and got as close to 32 as I can see with my no longer very
sharp eyes.

Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S

Peter_Cohen@Dell.com wrote:> Kirby’s readings match everything I have read abut what to expect. Vent

temperature of a properly functioning A/C system should be mid to high
thirties � Fahrenheit.

I wonder if the type /quality of the thermometer is a factor. For example,
is an oven / refrigerator thermometer going to give an accurate reading.

Hi listers-

I did some temperature tests on an '89 XJ-S which had its compressor
replaced and then recharged with R-12 three days ago. I used an Omega
dial thermometer accurate to a degree or so stuck in the center vent.

Ambient was 72F at nearly 100% RH.

With the controls at max cold it reached 35F in 2.5 minutes from a
“cold” start(first running of car all day). It then repeatedly cycled
uniformly between 35F and 40F at about a 30 second rate. I had to
abandon this test because it froze my wife out!

The next trip I set the dial to 65F with speed at “norm”. Cabin temp
went from ambient to 65 in about 4 or 5 minutes. The fans throttled
back to idle and stayed there all the while the car was running. Once
again, wife was too cold!

I was unable to replace my wife on such short notice, so I set the dial
to 70F. The cabin maintained that temp +/- 1 degree untill we got to
the beer store, our final destination.

I hope this helps define proper operation of a normal system. It sure
is nice to ride in a car with this climate control system when it works
right. OTOH, I rode it when it was broken too- like someone here said a
long while back, “A Jaguar without A/C is a barbecue”.— “Edward F. Sowell” sowelled@home.com wrote:

Peter,

I bought a little Cooper probe, 0 to 220 F, at Harbor Freight for
$4.95.
Tested in
in melting ice and got as close to 32 as I can see with my no longer
very
sharp eyes.

Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S

Peter_Cohen@Dell.com wrote:

Kirby’s readings match everything I have read abut what to expect.
Vent
temperature of a properly functioning A/C system should be mid to
high
thirties � Fahrenheit.

I wonder if the type /quality of the thermometer is a factor. For
example,
is an oven / refrigerator thermometer going to give an accurate
reading.

=====
Only dead fish go with the flow.


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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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List,
I’m trying to track down an intermittent problem with my power door locks.
I can lock and unlock both doors from the passenger side door key but only
unlock both doors from the drivers door key. I cannot lock the car from the
driver’s door key.
Reading through the ROM, it describes one lock and one unlock relay (but
shows two in the wiring diagram) There are also lock and unlock solenoids
and 2 x trigger units. Has anyone had any experience in this area? Any
suggestions on where the ground for the locking solenoid on the passenger
side might be (assuming it is intermittent) Does this sound like a trigger
unit/ solenoid /ground or relay fault?
It occasionally will lock/unlock the passenger door from the driver’s door
key but seems as though insufficient voltage is available to fire the
solenoids(lock and unlock passenger side) as the locking lever will only
travel half way when functioning.
Any insight would be welcome.
( have already removed drivers side door panel and checked most connections
ands plan on passenger side investigation )
Thanks
Patrick
82 XJ-S HE LHD

Joe,

Thanks for the data point. R-12 rules! I really am puzzled by these low
temperatures
or rather the higer R-134a temperatures. How do you charge your system?

BTW, did you bother to walk back to the cooler, or just grab the beer
off the shelf!

Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S

joe bialy wrote:>

I was unable to replace my wife on such short notice, so I set the dial
to 70F. The cabin maintained that temp +/- 1 degree untill we got to
the beer store, our final destination.

rgallivan@worldnet.att.net wrote:

I just switched back to r-12 after going to rs-276 & not getting the temps
I wanted.

What is rs-276?

The vent temps before I switched back where ~52 to 48 degs now I’m down to
~40 degs & still working on it but before there was hardly any condensation

There should be condensation. even if the vent temperature is in the 50s range,
the
condenser tubes are much lower. Anything lower than the dew point of the
incoming ait will produce condensation.

dripping from under the car, to the point that I thought the drains were
clogged again but after switching back it pours out.

Colder will produce more, naturally. How much do you need?

The center vent temps did hit the mid 30’s but the sight glass still looked
like it wasn’t FULL of fluid so I pumped in some more gas then the temp
rose to the low 40’s
to maybe 50. So I figure that I over filled , bleed some off but the sight

You WHAT??? Is this R-12 you are talking about? Don’t you know why
it was phased out? (sorry for the sermon, but really…)…

glass seems to have a void & fluid, rev the engine up & it appears to be
full of fluid. From what I’m gathering here the sight glass should be full
of fluid with NO bubbles. When I get that I’m seeing higher center vent
temps Higher hi side pressure 230+ , low side 20 - 25 psi @ 1200rpm but
that might be because the temp in front of the condensor was 108F. This was
done with the outside temp ~85 degs F close to 100 humidity.

Are these gauge pressures or absolute? That is, do I need to add 14.7 to get
the absolute pressure?

This may sound dumb [ 40 grit armor suit on :slight_smile: ] should I keep filling
the system until the sight glass is full of fluid ? Should it be full of
fluid at say 1200 - 1500 rpm ?

ROM says a few bubbles below 70 F ambient is OK at 1800 RPM. Kirby
will want total absence of bubbles, period :slight_smile:

Would the fact that the air temp in front of the condensor was 108F effect
the fluid level in the sight glass & the temp at the center vent ?

I expect so. Higher ambient means higher condensing pressure, meaning at the
very
least lower cooling effect per unit power expended. But then this may just
translate into
more power draw from the engine rather than less cooling at the evaporator. I
would expect
more bubbles, but really have never been able to see ANYTHING in a sight glass,
even when
I had R-12. Too much crude in there.

Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S

On 10-09-00, Patrick and Shawna MacNamara told us:

List,
I’m trying to track down an intermittent problem with my power door locks.
I can lock and unlock both doors from the passenger side door key but only
unlock both doors from the drivers door key. I cannot lock the car from the
driver’s door key.

I had very similar symptoms on my XJ-SC, and the fault was a shorted
solenoid in the door which DID allow the car to be locked.

Reading through the ROM, it describes one lock and one unlock relay (but
shows two in the wiring diagram) There are also lock and unlock solenoids
and 2 x trigger units.

The trigger units are built into the lock solenoids (under the rubber boots).

It occasionally will lock/unlock the passenger door from the driver’s door
key but seems as though insufficient voltage is available to fire the
solenoids(lock and unlock passenger side) as the locking lever will only
travel half way when functioning.

You could have a mechanical adjustment problem.

The solenoids each have two sets of windings in them, and are grounded
through the case to the door.

I tried activating each relay directly from +12V, and found that the one
solenoid would immediately trip the circuit breaker every time it was
activated.

Note that the solenoids are ‘handed’, so make sure you get the correct one!

regards,
Mike Morrin

ROM says a few bubbles below 70 F ambient is OK at 1800 RPM. Kirby
will want total absence of bubbles, period :slight_smile:

Only at max load – which you’re not gonna get at 70�F ambient. I
still haven’t figured out the bubble situation at low load, but I
gather some may be normal.

– Kirbert | Palm’s Postulate:
| If anything is to be accomplished,
| some rules must be broken.
| – Kirby Palm, 1979From: “Edward F. Sowell” sowelled@home.com

I’m trying to track down an intermittent problem with my power door
locks. I can lock and unlock both doors from the passenger side door
key but only unlock both doors from the drivers door key. I cannot
lock the car from the driver’s door key. Reading through the ROM, it
describes one lock and one unlock relay (but shows two in the wiring
diagram) There are also lock and unlock solenoids and 2 x trigger
units. Has anyone had any experience in this area? Any suggestions on
where the ground for the locking solenoid on the passenger side might
be (assuming it is intermittent) Does this sound like a trigger unit/
solenoid /ground or relay fault? It occasionally will lock/unlock the
passenger door from the driver’s door key but seems as though
insufficient voltage is available to fire the solenoids(lock and
unlock passenger side) as the locking lever will only travel half way
when functioning. Any insight would be welcome. ( have already removed
drivers side door panel and checked most connections ands plan on
passenger side investigation )

When this same symptom happened to my '83, I eventually found out
that the battery was on the way out. But only after tearing door
panels off and driving myself crazy trying to figure out what was
wrong.

Yes, the starter still worked fine. It wasn’t until the starter
CEASED working fine that I figured out that the battery was bad,
though.

– Kirbert | Palm’s Postulate:
| If anything is to be accomplished,
| some rules must be broken.
| – Kirby Palm, 1979From: “Patrick and Shawna MacNamara” shawnam@pacificcoast.net

Hi Ed-

No need to walk up to anything here in Michigan. We have many
luxuries,
like drive thru beer stores! Got a case of Miller’s (the champaign of
bottled beer) brought right to my wife’s window. The Delanaire kept
them cool all the way home. Now I know why they call it “high life”!

Anyhow, this system was charged at a shop.

Joe,

Thanks for the data point. R-12 rules! I really am puzzled by these
low
temperatures
or rather the higer R-134a temperatures. How do you charge your
system?

BTW, did you bother to walk back to the cooler, or just grab the
beer
off the shelf!

Ed Sowell
76 XJ-S

joe bialy wrote:

I was unable to replace my wife on such short notice, so I set
the
dial

to 70F. The cabin maintained that temp +/- 1 degree untill we got
to
the beer store, our final destination.

=====
Only dead fish go with the flow.


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— joe bialy <@JaguarJoe> wrote:
— “Edward F. Sowell” sowelled@home.com wrote:
=====
Only dead fish go with the flow.


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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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rgallivan@worldnet.att.net wrote:

mistake. should be rb-276. here’s a link.

http://www.heco.net/Whatis.htm

Did you read their “Truth” document? They seem to have borrowed a very good summary
of the reasons NOT to use the “mixes”, then in the last paragraph excused themselves
from the damnation! they did have the grace to say “until R-134a could be used, ours
was the best alternative
to R-12”

You WHAT??? Is this R-12 you are talking about? Don’t you know why
it was phased out? (sorry for the sermon, but really…)…

yea i know but i haven’t figured out how to get it back in the can. Thinking about
getting an old large empty can of r-12 & pulling a vac on it to use in situations
such as this.

I believe the restrictions require recovery.

Are these gauge pressures or absolute? That is, do I need to add 14.7 to get
the absolute pressure?

I have the gauges in hand & I see nothing about psia, just psi.

In my training, a gauag always gives “gauge” pressure. However, for relating
to the charts (at least the ASHRAE ones) we need absolute pressure, which
means adding ambient (14.7 at sea level) to the gauge. taht’s why I was
wondering. But maybe the A/C gauges have added it to the dial readings.
If they did, thouhg, they should say so…

Yea read that, have the ahynes manual for a/c also & they say all fluid in sight
glass
is the sight glass suppose to be situated so it’s at the top [ 12 o’clock] of the
dryer ?
I replaced it & now it’s not on top but is off to the side maybe the 11 o’clock
position. Would that make a difference ?

Well, it would make it easier if it were up, as that’s where the bubbles will be.
Otherwise, you will be looking thru the liquid + crud.

ed Sowell
76 XJ-S

rgallivan@worldnet.att.net wrote:

http://www.heco.net/Whatis.htm

Did you read their “Truth” document? They seem to have borrowed a very good summary
of the reasons NOT to use the “mixes”, then in the last paragraph excused themselves
from the damnation! they did have the grace to say “until R-134a could be used, ours
was the best alternative
to R-12”

Read it all, too good to be true. Right now reading the archives on the
aircondition.com, just found a thread on this stuff, but it gets down to the point of
who to believe. I know you can’t believe the government, any federal agency etc. the
hype really screws everything up royally. Read James Mitchners book " Poland",
explains the bureaucracy or as he puts it the nomenclature to a tee.

It’s been a while since I read Poland… Anyway, I’ve never been attracted to conspiracy
theories. In my nieve view, if there were better refrigerants out there, the ARI and DuPont
would be
pushing them too.

I have the gauges in hand & I see nothing about psia, just psi.

In my training, a gauag always gives “gauge” pressure. However, for relating
to the charts (at least the ASHRAE ones) we need absolute pressure, which
means adding ambient (14.7 at sea level) to the gauge. taht’s why I was
wondering. But maybe the A/C gauges have added it to the dial readings.
If they did, thouhg, they should say so…

speaking of the guages, being this is all new to me they have different scales for
different gasses, do I use the r-12 scale or the outer scale for reading the pressures ?

Maybe a simple thing but if you’ve never done it you don’t know.

I just look at my gauges. I now believe that the gauge reads gauge pressure. Pretty sure
of this, since it reads 0 when all valves are open and not connected, and we are not far for
sea
level here. BUT, I now see that they also have a temperature scale there too. This, plus
the fittings, is what makes it an “R-134a” gauge, as pressure is pressure. Interestingly,
the
correspondence between the pressure scale and the temperature scale is, in effect,
a GAUGE pressure vs. temperature chart. For example, if I look at 20 psi on the gauge it
looks like about
(hard to read) 22 F. From the ASHRAE chart I read very close to 22 F at 20+14.7= 34.7 psia.

Assuming your gauge is like mine, the outer gauge is for pressure (mine has psi as well as
kg/cm^2)
and the inner one is the corresponding temperature for the gas at that (gauge) pressure. For
example,
if you have an R-12 gauge at 20 psi on the gauge (34.7 psia) you should be reading about
18.5 deg F.
This also assumes you are at sea level. If I am right about these gauges, the temperature
scale is
not correct if you are not “near” sea level.

Ed Sowell

I have a 93 XJSC. When I hit the remote to lock the vehicle,
everyhting locks except the driver’s side door. If someone tries
to open the door, they open it and the alarm goes off. Any idea
what this can be?–
JagMan1993
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

// please trim quoted text to context only

Typical response to a “locked” feedback to a alarm. Pull the door trim off
to see if the solenoid is NFG, the alarm tels it to open / shut but does not
see it as having actually open / shut. Hence the alarm still thinks the door
is locked and you go and open it.
Kevin Whitehead
'85 XJS HE UK spec, TWR kit
Supra 5 speed, “MY XJS”.

to open the door, they open it and the alarm goes off. Any idea
what this can be?

// please trim quoted text to context only