Early? Well, I remember driving a JensenFF with ABS back around '71. I
believe it was a Dunlop system. Four-wheel drive, ABS and a big honking
Chrysler V-8. It was a blast to drive and stuck like glue.
As for modern ABS: My wife’s '88 Honda went almost 400,000 miles and the
brakes worked as good the day we sold it as they did when it was new.
Replace the pads, turn the rotors not more than once, make sure things are
clean and properly lubricated so the calipers don’t stick and things last a
long time.
Her new Honda sprung a leak in the ABS accumulator right after the warranty
expired. The damn price has a comma in it!! It’s a slow leak, so I plan on
topping it up once in a while and giving the problem to the next guy.
MikeC
----- Original Message -----
From: Bry in Virginia bryfs@spacebears.com
Cc: Jag- Lovers xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sunday, 27 August, 2000 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [xj-s] ABS
systems? Define early, too, as I was sort of under the impression that
the
Teves system is an early system. When were the first systems used and
on> > > what?
They started installing ABS on Corvettes in 1986. It was some sort of
Bosch system.
Isn’t there anybody out there other than me that likes ABS?
I’ve had two ABS-equipped cars, spanning five years of driving. While it
was kind of nice to have, I can’t say that I’ve had any situations where
the ABS unequivocally prevented an accident. Certainly when the $600 PMV
assembly went kaput on one of them, I haven’t exactly rushed out to
replace it. If I can find a good used one at a junkyard, for a lot less
money, maybe.
So I guess you could say, yes, I like ABS until I have to pay for it.
Since this is the second ABS thread in a short time and so far nobody
answered I’ll try to throw in my experience with the TEVES system even my
problem was different. It seems to me that ABS related threads are
increasing and we should keep an eye on it because the most important parts
of a car still are tires and brakes.
To get all on the same page - we are talking about heavy steering to one
side not the typical “tendencies” because of different tire pressure,
problems with brake pads or calipers, etc… If somebody experienced a
“freaked out” ABS system cutting off brake pressure totally one front wheel
will know about what I am talking.
I think the two cases below have serious problems with the ABS valve block
and I really recommend both to fix the problem now - don’t drive any
further!
The Teves ABS system has 3 pairs of valves regulating the pressure for the L
front R front and both rear brakes. If you are not getting a warning during
or after the test cycle the valves are operating ok but it doesn’t tell if
the valves are in the proper “normal” position when no current is applied.
One of the valves - the inlet valve is in “NO” position (normally open) and
the other valve (outlet valve) is in “NC” position. In case of a “locked”
wheel the ABS kicks in - closing the inlet valve to interrupt the break
pressure and open the outlet valve to bleed pressure (up to six times a
second).
The only way I can see to get a heavy steering to one particular side is a
stuck solenoid in one of the valves obstructing the valve to come back to
the fully “normal position”. So either a not fully open inlet valve or a not
fully closed outlet valve can create a heavy steering to one side.
I also would recommend everybody who is driving with a ABS fitted XJ-S to
see if the warning lamp is working. To be hundred percent sure pull the 30A
fuse for the ABS ECU (fuse panel passenger side below glove box) and see if
the ABS light comes on. The ABS ECU fuse is next to the ABS pump fuse - only
pull the ECU fuse! It is not very unusual that prior owners or car dealers
pull the ABS lamp to hide a serious and expensive problem (happened to
mine either).
Maybe some other listers can put in some experience I think we will need
more and more ABS stuff in the future because of aging ABS systems.
At the same time I’ll call all Jaguar parts suppliers to find cheaper
sources for the ABS parts - it will become a big issue in the future.
Have a good brake!
Andreas
XJ-S Coupe MY89 w/ABS----- Original Message -----
From: MRMACH@aol.com
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 9:41 PM
Subject: [xj-s] Concerned!
Good Evening Listers!
I have a little concern that I hope someone can help me with. I have
noticed that when I apply my brakes (I have an 89 w/ABS) the steering
wheel
pulls hard to the left.
I do not have a pull to the left when driving…but if I leave my
hands off the steering wheel and apply the brakes (has to be a full
application not just a “tap of the brakes”), the wheel pulls hard to left.
Enough that I could change lanes by applying the brakes!
I also have a squeal similar to Kirby’s…but it goes away if I apply
even the lightest pressure to the brake pedal?
Any ideas? Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: bob Nesler BNesler@netscape.net
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:09 PM
Subject: [xj-s] XJS 90 ABS sudden grab
Listers,
The 90 XJS with ABS has decided to Grab on different given times when the
brakes are applied. Happens on the front only, usually on drivers side
and is random in occurence. When it happens, it starts sending the car
into the neighboring lane. Very scary when it happens. Does anybody have
any ideas want is going on, we need to fix it NOW.
thanks in advance,
Bob Nesler
Andreas,
I am fairly new to the list…what was your problem and how did you
correct? Where is the valve block located? And finally, do you have the
procedure for bleeding the ABS system?
I agree these situation are only going to arise more and more frequently.
Lance,
Since I didn’t know my ABS system had a problem (PO pulled the lamp) the car
behaved somehow strange. When I started the car and started driving the car
pulled one time to the left and the other time to the right - I almost hit
some parked cars before I got used to it. After I reached a certain speed
the system worked ok. What I didn’t know at that time - the ABS system shuts
down when there is a consistent problem (sensors, etc.) after a certain
amount of system checks. During the first couple of seconds the ABS system
tried to recheck the system. My car had a intermittent wheel sensor
(sometimes good contact, sometimes not) what caused a screwed ABS ECU with
really strange steering tendencies. I only had to repair the wheel sensor
wire and installed a new ABS lamp to know if the system works or not.
But again this is a really hard almost uncontrollable steering. The good
thing in my case - I was driving slow.
The valve block together with the master cylinder and the reservoir is on
the drivers side in the engine bay.
There are different bleeding procedures. It depends what you want to do
(flushing the system, changing valve block, etc.). Everything is very nice
shown and explained in the ROM. If you consider doing some things yourself
you’ll need the ROM anyway. You should be very confident doing some repair
on your brakes especially on the master cylinder/valve block. These things
are not only very expensive (2000USD the valve block - I heard - am I
right?) it’s also very dangerous when something is screwed up.
There are more guys out with experience on their ABS system who disabled
the whole ABS (some of them don’t like ABS some of them just want to save
money). But the problem does not go away when the valve block has problems.
In my case Jeb Boyd helped me a lot.
Regards
Andreas----- Original Message -----
From: MRMACH@aol.com
To: <@Doctor34>; xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [xj-s] ABS
Andreas,
I am fairly new to the list…what was your problem and how did you
correct? Where is the valve block located? And finally, do you have the
procedure for bleeding the ABS system?
I agree these situation are only going to arise more and more
frequently.
Just a small point here for those “lucky” enough to have ABS.
The ABS warning light will always be illuminated until it is turned OFF by
the ECU.
So if the light doesn’t come on when the ignition key is turned then the
bulb is either blown or missing.
Since I didn’t know my ABS system had a problem (PO pulled the lamp) the
car
behaved somehow strange. When I started the car and started driving the
car
pulled one time to the left and the other time to the right - I almost hit
some parked cars before I got used to it. After I reached a certain speed
the system worked ok. What I didn’t know at that time - the ABS system
shuts
down when there is a consistent problem (sensors, etc.) after a certain
amount of system checks. During the first couple of seconds the ABS system
tried to recheck the system. My car had a intermittent wheel sensor
(sometimes good contact, sometimes not) what caused a screwed ABS ECU
with
really strange steering tendencies.
I know that feeling, mine did exactly the same thing except I still had a
bulb to tell me the system was mis-behaving.
I think many listers will be eventually be retrofitting the standard servo brake set up in
place of the ABS. Mine happens to be fine at the moment, regular flushing of brake fluid
has helped I’m sure, but in another 10 years?
Alan '88 3.6----- Original Message -----
From: “AB”
Since this is the second ABS thread in a short time and so far nobody
answered I’ll try to throw in my experience with the TEVES system even my
problem was different. It seems to me that ABS related threads are
increasing and we should keep an eye on it because the most important parts
of a car still are tires and brakes
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
47
I think many listers will be eventually be retrofitting the standard
servo brake set up in place of the ABS. Mine happens to be fine at the
moment, regular flushing of brake fluid has helped I’m sure, but in
another 10 years?
The first guy that tries this, post your lessons learned! I suspect
it’ll be fairly involved indeed, as I understand even the pedal box
must be changed out.
– KirbertOn 15 Jan 2001, at 18:25, Alan Baker wrote:
How can you tell that the ABS is not working ? ( short of skidding on gravel
etc)
Lee Opausky 89 Coupe - re-built calipers, 4 Brembo disks, still a soft
pedal - never touched actuator and other components due to lack of
understanding
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
49
How can you tell that the ABS is not working ? ( short of skidding on
gravel etc)
To me, skidding on gravel sounds like a good method. Are you looking
for something EASIER?
– KirbertOn 20 Jan 2001, at 8:11, Lee Opausky wrote:
Well, Im taking the plunge.
My mechanic and I have been over everything we can think of, and the ABS
problem seems to simply be the accumulator ball.
Hence, imma have this replaced this week, new: $500Aussie.
anybody have any experience with problems where the ABS just cuts out on
hard braking, before i do my dosh?
Chris Carpenter
I believe I’ve read here on the list that there is a GM accumulator ball
that is identical to ours. It may be from a Cadillac Allante. Perhaps there
was an equivalent Holden that also used this ball. The reason I mention it
is it is supposed to cost around US$75 vs. US$200 for the Jag part. The cost
savings may be similar in Oz.----- Original Message -----
Hence, imma have this replaced this week, new: $500Aussie.
Thanks Dihon,
but no cigar.
Unfortunately none of the other accumulator balls are interchangeable: GM,
Holden, Ford, the 3.6 or the 4.0 l Jaguar, they’re all different.
Looks like i’ll just invest a bit more dosh in my own peace of mind (and
safety)
Thanks all
Chris
For some time the ABS warning light has been on in my 1995 XJS, this vehicle
has the later ATE system with the electric pump and vacuum booster master
cylinder.
The Shop Manual lists a number of checks which I followed carefully to
resolve the problem. My light would come on a start up and then extinguish,
it reappeared at around 20 kph; which, according to the manual, is
indicative of a failed ECU or hydraulic pump.
I posted the problem some time ago and other owners with a similar
experience reported that changing the hydraulic pump assembly (including
ECU) solved it. Solution seemed obvious although expensive.
All the wiring, sensors and pump check out satisfactorily to the
Manual recommendations. Wheel bearings good and sensor installation sound.
Last weekend I drove back from a British car function in Ontario in an
enormous rainstorm. Light was on going into the storm but went out during
it!
After many, many starts, stops and drives the light no longer comes on when
the vehicle starts to move. It does come on during the check phase and goes
out once complete, exactly as advertised.
Whilst I used the brakes occasionally during the storm it was only gently
and I did not hear or feel the ABS operate.
Has anybody any ideas? I am delighted to have a potentially expensive
problem resolved for free, but am at a loss to know why!
In reply to a message from Rowen Baker sent Wed 21 Apr 2004:
Rowen, I have also experienced an ABS warning light problem. In
most cases I couldn’t establish a pattern for when it would occur,
except in some cases it would occur when I drove past a specific
cell phone tower.
However, after I adjusted the front wheel bearings and thoroughly
flushed the brake fluid, the problem disappeared entirely (knock on
wood 10K miles later). Not even the cell phone tower would set off
the lamp after these changes.
I can only guess that the failure mode management strategy in the
ABS ECU is overly sensitive to system conditions - maybe there’s a
ground circuit in the system that’s marginal. It would have been
best if I could have read out failure codes when the lamp was on,
but it never was convenient.
I haven’t answered your question, but hoepfully offered some
support.–
The original message included these comments:
For some time the ABS warning light has been on in my 1995 XJS, this vehicle
has the later ATE system with the electric pump and vacuum booster master
cylinder.
After many, many starts, stops and drives the light no longer comes on when
the vehicle starts to move. It does come on during the check phase and goes
out once complete, exactly as advertised.
–
Bob DiPaolo - '95 XJS, 4.0L Convt, US Spec
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Well this is my 1st day trying out this particular jaguar forum. Wasn’t sure how replies and such worked and being as how most of the “attendees” of these forums are incredibly anal regarding protocol, i picked an old old topic that i thought nobody was interested in anymore to try out replying. You’ll have to forgive such an egregious error on my part. Can i expect a ration of crap should i screw up in a more up to date topic ? Obviousely experimenting with an outdated topic violates protocol.
Kirbert
(Author of the Book, former owner of an '83 XJ-S H.E.)
58
You’re not the first guy who’s done that. The weird thing is, you post on a 15-year-old thread and presto it pops up to the top of all of our notification lists! Sometimes that’s even reasonable, such as when posting new information that is relevant to the old thread – as, really, you were. But usually it’s probably a better idea to just start a new thread.