[xj-s] Garage/Compressor/220v service (minor jag content)

I’m renting a large garage for my XJ-S, Mk.X, MGB, and
Magnette. It has two seperate modern 110volt
circuits. I can’t modify the wiring.

Last time I installed a 220 electrical service, I used
two regular circuit breakers, sort of bridged them,
and it worked fine. In fact, this might actually be
the way you are supposed to do it :slight_smile:

What if I bridged the circuits in some way in the
garage and paired them up and then put a dryer plug on
it. It seems to be the same effect but temporary.
I’m only doing this to run a compressor. I could
almost make a crazy extension cord with two plugs for
110 outets and then merge them into a dryer outlet and
plug the compressor into that.

It won’t pass any codes, but am I nuts?

-John____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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In reply to a message from John Elwood sent Wed 8 Aug 2007:

I did the same thing for years in my basement and never had a
problem. Now I have a 110V oil lessCraftsman compressor at my new
place in Florida.–
BigCat?
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

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I’m renting a large garage for my XJ-S, Mk.X, MGB, and
Magnette. It has two seperate modern 110volt
circuits. I can’t modify the wiring.

Last time I installed a 220 electrical service, I used
two regular circuit breakers, sort of bridged them,
and it worked fine. In fact, this might actually be
the way you are supposed to do it :slight_smile:

What if I bridged the circuits in some way in the
garage and paired them up and then put a dryer plug on
it. It seems to be the same effect but temporary.
I’m only doing this to run a compressor. I could
almost make a crazy extension cord with two plugs for
110 outets and then merge them into a dryer outlet and
plug the compressor into that.

It won’t pass any codes, but am I nuts?

-John

Hi John,
I’m presuming that you’re planning to run a 220v motor. That being the
case, in order obtain 220v from two 110v sources they have to be 180 degrees
out of phase.Just hooking up two in-phase 110v lines in parallel will only
give you 110v. Since you have identified the two separate sources they are
most likely out of phase as required.

Dave Osborne

// please trim quoted text to context only----- Original Message -----
From: “John Elwood”
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: [xj-s] Garage/Compressor/220v service (minor jag content)

If you have a multimeter handy, check the voltage between the two hot
leads from the two outlets. If it is ~ 220, you are in business. If
there is no voltage, then they are both on the same side of the tap to
the structure and you will need to find another outlet off the other
side. If the breakers to the outlets you’ve selected are on the
opposite side of the box, you should be in busines.

Disclaimer, if you blow something up, burn it down, or electrocute
yourself or someone else, we told you not to do this.

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Alex Baker wrote:

If you have a multimeter handy, check the voltage between the two hot
leads from the two outlets. If it is ~ 220, you are in business.

This discussion has gone a long way, and I’m not sure how much actual
knowledge has been applied. Here are the pertinent facts:

Here in the US, a typical residence is served by a single-phase
transformer, which means there are only two high-voltage supply lines
connected to it. This transformer has two secondary windings so
there are three wires from the transformer into the residence: a
common, a +110V, and a -110V.

In the breaker box, each of these three leads is connected to a bus.
Every breaker in the box connects to the common. Every other
breaker connects to each of the other two busses; whichever bus one
breaker is connected to, the breaker just below it is connected to
the other bus. Hence, about half the loads in the house will be
connected to the +110V supply, the other half will be connected to
the -110V supply. Since it’s all AC, both supplies look exactly the
same unless you manage to compare them to each other.

If you need 220V, there’s no need to hotwire anything. You just
purchase a 220V circuit breaker. It’s twice as wide as a 110V
breaker and installs in the same box, but because it occupies two
successive ports it will be connecting to both supply busses. It
typically looks like two regular breakers siamesed together with a
little bar tying the levers together. You connect your 220V load to
the two terminals on this breaker, with only a ground connected
elsewhere. This is not a bodge; it’s the way the system is designed
to work. This is the way dryers and other 220V appliances are
powered. You can just take a quick look inside your breaker box and
quickly see which appliances are 220V.

The ground, BTW, is a separate bus inside the circuit breaker box,
even though the common from the transformer is also connected to
ground. The reason to keep these separate is that the common may get
a significant current flow and therefore a significant voltage drop,
so a few volts may appear on it from time to time. The ground, by
contrast, should never see any current flow (other than when
something goes wrong) and hence should never see any voltage.

Some appliances use both 220V and 110V. For example, an electric
dryer usually has 220V for the heating element but 110V for the timer
and the motor. In this case, three leads are provided, both the 110V
supply leads and the common. From one supply to the other is 220V,
from either supply lead to the common is 110V.

Now, if for some reason you need to combine two 110V power supplies
that originate from different transformers, I suppose it’s possible,
but I probably wouldn’t advise it. I dunno why you’d ever need to do
such a thing, though.

– Kirbert

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Kirby,

Your statements are correct.

However, the original message stated that he was not able to modify
his electrical service. He is renting and the landlord will not let
him install breakers, or run new wiring.

Yes, the simplest thing, most cost effective thing, the easiest thing,
and the smartest and safest thing to do, would be to simply put in a
new breaker and go on your way.

However, he eliminated your suggestion in the original message as a
possible solution.

Regards,

Alex Baker
Grumpy and still waiting for my settlement check for my 92 XJS.On 8/9/07, Kirbert palmk@nettally.com wrote:

Alex Baker wrote:

If you have a multimeter handy, check the voltage between the two hot
leads from the two outlets. If it is ~ 220, you are in business.

This discussion has gone a long way, and I’m not sure how much actual
knowledge has been applied. Here are the pertinent facts:

Here in the US, a typical residence is served by a single-phase
transformer, which means there are only two high-voltage supply lines
connected to it. This transformer has two secondary windings so
there are three wires from the transformer into the residence: a
common, a +110V, and a -110V.

In the breaker box, each of these three leads is connected to a bus.
Every breaker in the box connects to the common. Every other
breaker connects to each of the other two busses; whichever bus one
breaker is connected to, the breaker just below it is connected to
the other bus. Hence, about half the loads in the house will be
connected to the +110V supply, the other half will be connected to
the -110V supply. Since it’s all AC, both supplies look exactly the
same unless you manage to compare them to each other.

If you need 220V, there’s no need to hotwire anything. You just
purchase a 220V circuit breaker. It’s twice as wide as a 110V
breaker and installs in the same box, but because it occupies two
successive ports it will be connecting to both supply busses. It
typically looks like two regular breakers siamesed together with a
little bar tying the levers together. You connect your 220V load to
the two terminals on this breaker, with only a ground connected
elsewhere. This is not a bodge; it’s the way the system is designed
to work. This is the way dryers and other 220V appliances are
powered. You can just take a quick look inside your breaker box and
quickly see which appliances are 220V.

The ground, BTW, is a separate bus inside the circuit breaker box,
even though the common from the transformer is also connected to
ground. The reason to keep these separate is that the common may get
a significant current flow and therefore a significant voltage drop,
so a few volts may appear on it from time to time. The ground, by
contrast, should never see any current flow (other than when
something goes wrong) and hence should never see any voltage.

Some appliances use both 220V and 110V. For example, an electric
dryer usually has 220V for the heating element but 110V for the timer
and the motor. In this case, three leads are provided, both the 110V
supply leads and the common. From one supply to the other is 220V,
from either supply lead to the common is 110V.

Now, if for some reason you need to combine two 110V power supplies
that originate from different transformers, I suppose it’s possible,
but I probably wouldn’t advise it. I dunno why you’d ever need to do
such a thing, though.

– Kirbert

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