[xj-s] Manual Transmission options for V12 For a Track Day/race car

I know That I could use a manual trans from a series3 XK-E
(expensive)
I’ve made several T5 conversions myself (Cheap but since the most
HP a T5 is rated for is 350 it’s marginal).
I’ve heard it’s possible to simply bolt a Getrag 5 speed from the
6 cylinder up to the V12 engine?
How much interchanges? Flywheel? driveshaft? Clutch/brake pedal
assembly?
I’m sure that’s in England option only if it does work. So what
are typical junk yard prices for the parts? what sort of expense
would shipping be and import duty?–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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I know That I could use a manual trans from a series3 XK-E
(expensive)

Very expensive

I’ve made several T5 conversions myself (Cheap but since the most
HP a T5 is rated for is 350 it’s marginal).

The T5’s were also designed for a lighter weight car

I’ve heard it’s possible to simply bolt a Getrag 5 speed from the
6 cylinder up to the V12 engine?

Providing you have the right bell housing then yes, but I’m not too sure that, that Getrag is going to be strong enough for your purposes. You’ll probably end up breaking it.

How much interchanges? Flywheel? driveshaft? Clutch/brake pedal
assembly?

Not to sure about the flywheel, but the driveshaft length will change. I have one but I’m not in a position to measure it. You can use the pedal box assembly from the six cylinder, though. I haven’t done it, but I can see how the existing pedal box could be modified to accept an additional pedal. The mounting of the hydraulic reservoir is unique to the pedal box, though.

I’m sure that’s in England option only if it does work. So what
are typical junk yard prices for the parts?

The pedal boxes that I’ve run across have ranged in price between $150-$400

what sort of expense
would shipping be and import duty?

I don’t remember ever paying duty on anything being shipped to the states, but shipping from the UK tends to be on the outlandish side of things.

Hope some of this helps.

A.J.

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn Jan 4, 2011, at 3:40 PM, MGuar wrote:

When it comes to transmissions, I haven’t found any cheap solutions.

The ones that will stand up are the names that you already know.

Be careful if you got the Tremec route, and if it we me, I’d even have a brandy new one blueprinted, and make sure there aren’t any off brand, or Taiwanese parts inside of them.

If money is no object (it seldom isn’t) I’d ride with Richmond, that way you get to choose whatever gearing you want.

The Getrag V160, V161 is an option also, but expensive.

A.J.On Jan 4, 2011, at 3:40 PM, MGuar wrote:

I know That I could use a manual trans from a series3 XK-E
(expensive)
I’ve made several T5 conversions myself (Cheap but since the most
HP a T5 is rated for is 350 it’s marginal).
I’ve heard it’s possible to simply bolt a Getrag 5 speed from the
6 cylinder up to the V12 engine?
How much interchanges? Flywheel? driveshaft? Clutch/brake pedal
assembly?
I’m sure that’s in England option only if it does work. So what
are typical junk yard prices for the parts? what sort of expense
would shipping be and import duty?

MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from A.J. Simpson sent Tue 4 Jan 2011:

I already have a Seanz Racing gearbox for it. It’s a 5 speed
nonoverdrive unit but it’s got dog rings instead of syncros.
Another words you only use the clutch to get the car rolling.

From then on it’s shifted without the clutch… (using the clutch
just bashes the dog rings to death) Not hard to do at full throttle
but I doubt I could get away with it on the street driving to
track day events…
It’s also a quick change gear box so gear ratio swaps can be done
in the car without removing the transmission itself… Takes just
minutes.
Since that gear box handles 800Plus foot pounds of torque it’s
clearly the one for the track.However IT would require a trailer
which destroys the fun of a track day car…
The T56 will handle any power I can throw at it. I could use
that but they aren’t cheap… plus who needs 2 overdrive ratios?–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from A.J. Simpson sent Tue 4 Jan 2011:

Stock a V12 has about 300HP so the T5 will handle that much power…
I’ve got a buddy with one and it handles it easily. Weight wise We
work pretty hard to get it off. He’s nearly down to 3000# and my
goal is under 2500#'s
Instead of doors I’ll use Carbon Fiber skins.(maybe 7#'s each)
Also carbon fiber bonnet and boot (30&22 pounds) Plus all 4 fenders
will be carbon fiber… while the stock ones aren’t really that
heavy mine are for 10 inch wide rims so they will be 5 inches wider
then stock…
Also I might make mine a convertable which should remove another
200#'s But I will gain that much back and more with the required
rollcage…
However the front cross member is really heavy and it will benefit
from the swiss cheese effect. I suspect 60-80 pounds reduction is
possible…
I will be twin turboing the V12 since it’s so cheap and easy to
do. That will add a nice little 150 horsepower.
That’s where the T5 gets marginal…–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from A.J. Simpson sent Tue 4 Jan 2011:

Stock a V12 has about 300HP so the T5 will handle that much power…
I’ve got a buddy with one and it handles it easily. Weight wise We
work pretty hard to get it off. He’s nearly down to 3000# and my
goal is under 2500#'s

It seems as though the weight reduction is the key to your success in using that box.

Globally the T5 remains to be a popular choice, but they have their limits.

A.J.

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn Jan 4, 2011, at 5:34 PM, MGuar wrote:

I have one of those old 4 speed transmissions.

It’ll bolt right up to a 5.3. I never gave much thought about using it, though.

It probably needs to be rebuild. Where can a guy get parts to rebuild one of those old boxes?

A.J.On Jan 4, 2011, at 3:40 PM, MGuar wrote:

I know That I could use a manual trans from a series3 XK-E
(expensive)

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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Mon 3 Jan 2011:

For what it is worth there is a NOS Getrag 5 speed for sale on the
JCNA web site–not mine and not affiliated.–
The original message included these comments:

I’m sure that’s in England option only if it does work. So what
are typical junk yard prices for the parts? what sort of expense
would shipping be and import duty?


JCRC SE member JCNA Publications and Authenticity Desk
Columbia SC, United States
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A.J. Simpson wrote:

It seems as though the weight reduction is the key to your success in
using that box.

Globally the T5 remains to be a popular choice, but they have their
limits.

Nobody in this thread has mentioned the Toyota Supra?

– Kirbert

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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Tue 4 Jan 2011:

''Stock a V12 has about 300HP ‘’

I don’t know where you get your numbers from, but the US Spec stock
HE V12 is rated at 262 HP and 290 ft-lbs of torque.–
lockheed 92 XJS Cpe/97 LT1 Miami FL/ 96 XJS Cv 4.0 Austin TX
Austin, TX, United States
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In reply to a message from lockheed sent Wed 5 Jan 2011:

This topic comes around regularly on the etype list, so have a look
there.

See also http://www.westnet.com/~mfrank/FiveSpeeds.html

The Getrag is the most common 5speed conversion outside the US. It
just doesn’t get much publicity in the US.

kind regards
Marek–
MarekH
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Mon 3 Jan 2011:

you want the EJ box as used in S1 4.2, that’s what GRP44 used in
their E’s. Has CR gearset 2.64 1st. See them on eBay for $1200+.
Or you can buy new T5Z’s for $1200 as used in the Mustang GT.
Don’t forget the OE rating on these is for warranty puposes.
The Sovereign E 48V V12 had a GTJ5 behind it had no problem with
the 500HP.
Getrag 290 as used behind 4L is not as strong as the T5 and parts
are hard to get.–
The original message included these comments:

HP a T5 is rated for is 350 it’s marginal).
I’ve heard it’s possible to simply bolt a Getrag 5 speed from the
6 cylinder up to the V12 engine?


850225/679,1E21003,2W2001BW,JNAEY3AC100218,SAJNV4841KC156072
HEIDELBERG HEIGHTS, Australia
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The R154 Supra Turbo Transmission is a strong enough box, but the shifting could be better.

The V160, V161 are much beefier boxes and are supposed to be much better boxes all around. I don’t know the difference between the V160 & V161, though.

For one of our street cars, I’m of the opinion that you need a transmission that’s not only beefy enough, but also designed to carry the weight.On Jan 5, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Kirbert wrote:

A.J. Simpson wrote:

It seems as though the weight reduction is the key to your success in
using that box.

Nobody in this thread has mentioned the Toyota Supra?

– Kirbert

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In reply to a message from A.J. Simpson sent Wed 5 Jan 2011:

A friend of mine is on his 4th Supra Turbo box behind a stock V12.
His son took my advice and fitted a T5 with 2.95 1st. NO PROBLEMS!
Both guys don’t give each other any quarter on the club track days,
these cars get hammered.–
The original message included these comments:

The R154 Supra Turbo Transmission is a strong enough box, but the shifting could be better.


850225/679,1E21003,2W2001BW,JNAEY3AC100218,SAJNV4841KC156072
HEIDELBERG HEIGHTS, Australia
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Mon 3 Jan 2011:

One thing I forgot to mention, the Getrag and Supra boxes, the
ratios are crap for racing. The T5Z wins hands down wth the 2.95
1st and you can change the OD ratio if you need to make it more
like a 5 speed race box, like GTJ offered.
And gearboxes are rated for TORQUE not HP, I mean you could put the
T5 behind a genuine 300HP 454 that would blow it apart in 5 sec
flat.
Torque will destroy it, not HP.–
The original message included these comments:

HP a T5 is rated for is 350 it’s marginal).
I’ve heard it’s possible to simply bolt a Getrag 5 speed from the
6 cylinder up to the V12 engine?


850225/679,1E21003,2W2001BW,JNAEY3AC100218,SAJNV4841KC156072
HEIDELBERG HEIGHTS, Australia
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In reply to a message from lockheed sent Wed 5 Jan 2011:

I really hate to parse out words…
OK I should have said internally stock.
The manual says that my XJ-S has 284 hp at 5700 RPM. Yes I was
off by 16 horsepower. I suspect your numbers are that of the
carburated V12.
However, There are some things done to the stock XJ-S to retain
elegance and one of those is to silence the intake roar… I use a 5
inch tube to draw cold fresh air from the low beam headlite
position which is removed. Noisy but a power increase. . (low beam
moved to the high beam position since night racing on road race
tracks doesn’t happen) In addition the whole EGR and exterior smog
system are removed.
Stock air to fuel ratio is 14.6-1 on the non-HE engines 15.5 on
HE engines.
However best power is made at a ratio of 11.5 (richer) That is a
simple adjustment to the fuel injection system. When the cat’s are
removed as is the whole stock exhaust system and the cold air added
to the intake plus the system richened to make additional power do
you honestly believe I mislead you with the about 300 number?–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from A.J. Simpson sent Tue 4 Jan 2011:

The Jaguar 4 speed parts can be purchased from XK’s unlimited… I
think Bill Terry also has them but he sold the company to an
outfit in Michigan. Ask and I’ll get you their E-mal
addresses…–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from Norman LUTZ sent Wed 5 Jan 2011:

Thanks Norm.
Nice to know the Getrag isn’t all that stout so I won’t waste
effort trying to find one of those… However the T5 is used in so
many cars/trucks that I can get them in simple trades… (going
price seems to be a set of early flat heads)–
MGuar
Wayzata Minnesota, United States
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In reply to a message from MGuar sent Wed 5 Jan 2011:

‘’. I suspect your numbers are that of the carburated V12.’’

Not so:

‘‘From July 1981, XJ-S received the new High-Efficiency engine for
much better economy; as a by-product, power was increased to 196 kW
(263 hp) in North America’’

You said stock, not tweaked, so the fact remains: The US spec.
stock HE XJS V12 (5.3) is 263 HP and 290 ft.-lbs torque.–
lockheed 92 XJS Cpe/97 LT1 Miami FL/ 96 XJS Cv 4.0 Austin TX
Austin, TX, United States
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MGuar wrote:

…do you
honestly believe I mislead you with the about 300 number?

More to the point, that wasn’t your point. If a particular
transmission is good for 300 hp, then it’s good for 265 hp or
whatever, I wouldn’t even worry about it for 320 hp. Like someone
said, it’s torque that breaks a transmission anyway – although I
might argue it’s actually vehicle weight. Either way, the point is
that the T5 transmission is OK for a dead stock Jaguar V12 but
probably wouldn’t be a good idea for a car with serious performance
mods, it’d be better to go with a Tremec or something similarly heavy-
duty.

– Kirbert

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