[xj-s] No Start

XJ-S
21

In reply to a message from Don Franke sent Fri 11 Mar 2016:

Finally had time to work on the no start problem. Removed
a plug wire from #3B and installed a good spark plug and
grounded it to the block. Had the MRS turned the engine
over in the dark garage and no spark. Unhooked the battery
and removed the ignition amplifier. Replaced the module
with a NAPA TP45 and tried to start. No luck.
Considering replacing the entire ignition amplifier. as
two of the wires inside are cracked. I did wrap them in
electrical tape before reassembly.
TWO QUESTIONS. What is the difference between the DAC 2673
and the DAC 4104 Ignition amplifiers?
How does one test the shielded lead from the ignition
Amplifier to the ECU in the boot?
In the mean time I’ll find something else to worry about.
Thanks in advance gentlemen–
1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States
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22

In reply to a message from Don Franke sent Fri 18 Mar 2016:

The difference in the amplifiers seems to be the external
wire connectors. Did you test the NAPA part before
installing it?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1259195073

http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1453579416--
The original message included these comments:

TWO QUESTIONS. What is the difference between the DAC 2673
and the DAC 4104 Ignition amplifiers?

–
84 XJS, 89 XJS
Santa Barbara, CA, United States
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23

In reply to a message from WayneC sent Fri 18 Mar 2016:

Did not test new module. Need to find my lost test wires
with alligator clips. Read some where on this forum, with a
diagram no less that by applying 12 volts to modules at
specific points and using a test light or multimeter you
can determine if is OK or not. Will do that when test leads
or found or new ones made.–
The original message included these comments:

wire connectors. Did you test the NAPA part before
installing it?

–
1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States
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24

In reply to a message from Don Franke sent Fri 11 Mar 2016:

How does one test the shielded lead from the ignition Amplifier to the ECU
in the boot?

In my experience testing the coax may not give helpful info. I have had the
amp coax (including the shield return wire) test good (ohm meter) from the
amp to the ECU and still not fire. Then by replacing the coax from the amp
to as close to the fire wall as possible she fired and ran well. On
inspection of the old coax’s wires were complete but extremely brittle
across the section from middle of the motor. I suspect that the motor
movement of coax during starting may be the last straw to a rotted cable. It
also may be that continuity under load may be different to non-load. I
think I’ll revive my old megger meter which will give resistance values
under load (don’t use a megger without disconnecting ECU).
Cheers Trev

Trevor Beckwith
Wagga Wagga NSW
Australia
1982 XJS Coupe (Roxanne)
1982 XJ6 Vanden Plas Sedan

// please trim quoted text to context onlySubject: Re: [xj-s] No Start

25

In reply to a message from Trevor Beckwith sent Fri 18 Mar 2016:

Today the ignition Amplifier was replaced with new unit
but the engine does not start. Removed the distributor cap
and all is in order. Other than a bad Ignition Amplifier
what can cause a no spark of the plugs???–
1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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26

Don,

Here are some other things that I can think of that could cause no spark
at the plugs:

  1. a bad ignition switch
  2. a bad coil (I think your car many have two coils, is that right?)
  3. bad/disconnected wiring (White wires) between the ignition switch and
    the coil
  4. bad wiring between the coil and the distributor

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

1990 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1987 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type FHC
1957 MK VIII Saloon
Ramona, CA
P.M.Novak7@gmail.com-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Don Franke
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:10 AM
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj-s] No Start

In reply to a message from Trevor Beckwith sent Fri 18 Mar 2016:

Today the ignition Amplifier was replaced with new unit but the engine
does not start. Removed the distributor cap and all is in order. Other than
a bad Ignition Amplifier what can cause a no spark of the plugs???

1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States

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27

Don. The signal for the spark and injector pulse starts at the pickup in
the dizzy. I suppose the list of potential problems (in order) goes …
pickup-sprocket gap, pickup itself, pickup leads, pickup connectors, amp,
amp connections/leads and coil/s.
Testing for spark using the dizzy end of the main HT lead against the inlet
manifold can exclude the dizzy cap being the problem (or not). If you have a
strong bluish spark at the manifold this will exclude the above list being
the problem. Then I would suspect the dizzy cap.
Good luck
Trev

Reply to Don Franke Sent: 30 March 2016 4:10 AM

Today the ignition Amplifier was replaced with new unit but the engine
does not start. Removed the distributor cap and all is in order. Other than
a bad Ignition Amplifier what can cause a no spark of the plugs???

Trevor Beckwith
Wagga Wagga NSW
Australia
1982 XJS Coupe (Roxanne)
1982 XJ6 Vanden Plas Sedan

// please trim quoted text to context onlySubject: RE: [xj-s] No Start

28

In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Tue 29 Mar 2016:

To check if the problem of my no start may be a bad
connection at the ignition switch, could you tell me which
terminal at the coil should have power with the switch
turned on?
I am guessing that it is the white wire.
The car has the original two coil system and only the one
mounted on the throttle tower has been replaced and few
years back.–
The original message included these comments:

Here are some other things that I can think of that could cause no spark
at the plugs:

  1. a bad ignition switch
  2. a bad coil (I think your car many have two coils, is that right?)
  3. bad/disconnected wiring (White wires) between the ignition switch and
    the coil
  4. bad wiring between the coil and the distributor
    Paul M. Novak

–
1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

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29

In reply to a message from Don Franke sent Thu 31 Mar 2016:

Have been occupied with other maters until this morning
when took steps to find cause of no start. Again engine
turn over but no ignition spark. To insure all possible
fault conditions where inspected the rotor was removed to
check the gap at the 12 point star wheel. Don’t know it’s
proper name. To get the rotor off had to loop twine around
both ends and pry off with broom handle. Dumb me forgot to
press down on assembly while doing this. with rotor off
removed what was oiling felt but is now near rock hard
mass. There is some sort of plastic that was around the
inner section that is now in pieces. In look at the pats CD
can not see any such part listed. Need a blow up drawing of
the top of the distributor shaft to see what is broken.
The Gap was OK at 0.020 inches. The lead from the
distributor to the Ignition Amplifier is bad. The weather
tight sealing section on the AMP side is cracked. Had
repaired it long ago but it needs replacement. Part number
is DAC 3247 and the Parts book calls it Screen link Lead.
This lead has two conductors which are wrapped in a copper
braid and the copper is grounded at the Amplifier under one
of the two mounting bolts. Found one parts supplier that
list it but will have to call Monday to see if it is still
available. Costly little wiring part section of 22 1/2
inches of shielded cable at over $160.00.
If not available will have to concoct a new lead. One had
part will be finding the square plastic end which plugs
into the Ignition Amplifier.
Will test both coils and see that they are OK but other
than that am at a stand still until the ne Screen Link Lead
can be installed. Miss driving this old car.
Thanks for all your inputs and assistance.–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Tue 29 Mar 2016:

Here are some other things that I can think of that could cause no spark
at the plugs:

  1. a bad ignition switch
  2. a bad coil (I think your car many have two coils, is that right?)
  3. bad/disconnected wiring (White wires) between the ignition switch and
    the coil
  4. bad wiring between the coil and the distributor
    Paul M. Novak

–
1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

// please trim quoted text to context only

30

If not available will have to concoct a new lead. One had
part will be finding the square plastic end which plugs
into the Ignition Amplifier.
Will test both coils and see that they are OK but other
than that am at a stand still until the ne Screen Link Lead
can be installed.

1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can buy twin shielded cable at places like Radio Shack.
For a temporary fix you can use two parallel lengths of just about any wire.
Twist them tightly together and that tends to minimise pick up from
the HV ignition circuits.
You do not want the wires to be too close to the HV leads.
You can wrap the wires in a bit of alfoil which you can ground to the engine.

The square plastic end is really a trim piece, looks neat but not essential.

Richard Dowling, Melbourne, Australia. 1979 coupe + HE V12 + manual;
1989 convertible; 2003 XJ350.

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31

In reply to a message from Richard Dowling sent Sun 10 Apr 2016:

extra:

Woven metallic shielding Is
used in a lot of applications
to avoid the effect of stray
RF’s.

Not commonly recognized is
the fact that grounding on
one end only is the proper use.

Grounding at each end works
the other way and it becomes
an antennae to extend the
range of the stray RF’s.

Caveat: What I know of this
ignition system is minimal
if any.

Whew, oiling by felt pad!
That goes back decades…

Carl–
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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32

Don,

Contact David Boger of Everyday XJ. David’s part time job is breaking
Jaguars and selling off the bits and pieces. He is active on a few
Jag-Lovers lists, and that is how I met him. That “square plastic end
which plugs into the Ignition Amplifier” is also used on the ignition
amplifier in the Series III XJ6s and I’ll bet David has a bunch to sell.
The two wires for the plug on the XJ6 come from the distributor and David is
likely to have a bunch of them. In addition to breaking XJ6s and XJ12s,
he also breaks XJ-Ss and other Jaguars. In addition, he has made some bulk
purchases of New Old Stock Jaguar parts from dealerships or parts supply
houses that closed. So you might find the bits and pieces you need at one
place.

David has a full time job, so if he is out of town or working on a big job
(he is a roofer) he might not get back to you right away, but he will get
back to you. I have purchased dozens of parts from David and I have always
been pleased with the parts and the prices. He is located in North
Carolina.

Here is a link to his website: http://www.everydayxj.com/

Since you are looking for little bits and pieces, you probably won’t see
them listed on his website. However, if you send him and email with
information about what you need, I am certain he will get back to you as
soon as he can. David is a great guy and I can’t speak more highly of him.

I have no affiliation with David Boger or EverydayXJ other than as a
satisfied customer for a bunch of parts that I couldn’t find anywhere else.

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

1990 Series III V12 Vanden Plas
1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1987 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type FHC
1957 MK VIII Saloon
Ramona, CA
P.M.Novak7@gmail.com-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of Don Franke
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 7:23 PM
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj-s] No Start

In reply to a message from Don Franke sent Thu 31 Mar 2016:

Have been occupied with other maters until this morning when took steps to
find cause of no start. Again engine turn over but no ignition spark. To
insure all possible fault conditions where inspected the rotor was removed
to check the gap at the 12 point star wheel. Don’t know it’s proper name. To
get the rotor off had to loop twine around both ends and pry off with broom
handle. Dumb me forgot to press down on assembly while doing this. with
rotor off removed what was oiling felt but is now near rock hard mass. There
is some sort of plastic that was around the inner section that is now in
pieces. In look at the pats CD can not see any such part listed. Need a blow
up drawing of the top of the distributor shaft to see what is broken.
The Gap was OK at 0.020 inches. The lead from the distributor to the
Ignition Amplifier is bad. The weather tight sealing section on the AMP side
is cracked. Had repaired it long ago but it needs replacement. Part number
is DAC 3247 and the Parts book calls it Screen link Lead.
This lead has two conductors which are wrapped in a copper braid and the
copper is grounded at the Amplifier under one of the two mounting bolts.
Found one parts supplier that list it but will have to call Monday to see if
it is still available. Costly little wiring part section of 22 1/2 inches of
shielded cable at over $160.00.
If not available will have to concoct a new lead. One had part will be
finding the square plastic end which plugs into the Ignition Amplifier.
Will test both coils and see that they are OK but other than that am at a
stand still until the ne Screen Link Lead can be installed. Miss driving
this old car.
Thanks for all your inputs and assistance.

The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Tue 29 Mar 2016:

Here are some other things that I can think of that could cause no
spark at the plugs:

  1. a bad ignition switch
  2. a bad coil (I think your car many have two coils, is that
    right?)
  3. bad/disconnected wiring (White wires) between the ignition
    switch and the coil
  4. bad wiring between the coil and the distributor Paul M. Novak

–
1987 XJS Coupe
Weston Lakes/Texas, United States

// please trim quoted text to context only

33

In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Mon 11 Apr 2016:

Forgive me if I am repeating something that was already
discussed in a previous post. Have you insured that the
rotor is in fact turning when the engine is turning over?–
The original message included these comments:

Here are some other things that I can think of that could cause no

–
farmcat
lloydminster, Canada
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34

Today the ignition Amplifier was replaced with new unit but the engine
does not start. Removed the distributor cap and all is in order.

Don’t know if this has been mentioned, but sometimes the carbon center post gets stuck so there’s no contact with the rotor.

Ed Sowell
'76 XJ-S coupe, red
http://www.efsowell.us

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35

In reply to a message from Ed Sowell sent Mon 11 Apr 2016:

Two things:

  1. Ditto Paul’s endorsement of
    David Boger and his .everydayxj.

  2. ditto on Ed’s comment on the little
    carbon button in the center
    of the distributor cap. been there,
    done that. Exasperation in spades…

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

Don’t know if this has been mentioned, but sometimes the carbon center post gets stuck so there’s no contact with the rotor.

–
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

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